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  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIx-1-lfzXg :D

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article516647.ece

    :D Thanks Roland. Needed that! :)

    Excellent article too btw. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    nickcat0 wrote:
    That's why I prefer the more liberal attitudes of the Church of England , over these more conservative , reactionary faiths .
    Worship God , don't judge others ,try and be loving and considerate to all , and let God decide what He thinks is right and wrong .

    Why follow any religion based on a book that contradicts itself, makes grand claims without evidence, and which promotes any value which does not follow the evolution of social understanding?

    I don't understand why you would chose a book like this, pick and chose what to follow based on either your biased upbringing and/or the evolution of social understanding, and then claim it is the end all know all to everything in existence... which then leads to making daily decisions in everyday life and in politics based on those distorted dogmas.

    Please explain.
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    gue_barium wrote:
    Individuality has nothing to do with the bible. The conformity you preach sure does.

    Get lost.
    lol "get lost"? Why? Because I wont "conform" to your ideology of "indivduality"? How hypocritical.
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Yeah, so back to the topic at hand, it's really sad that this church conducted itself in this manner. The time to refuse was when the request was made, not the day before the funeral. Really poor form on their part.

    I feel very sorry for the man and his family. Really badly handled at an extremely difficult time for them.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Jeanie wrote:
    :D Thanks Roland. Needed that! :)

    Excellent article too btw. :)

    Hey you're welcome. Honestly...it might not seem like it at all, but when I'm not bitching about the ugly hard political stuff, I'm really a fun guy to be around.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    Jeanie wrote:
    Yeah, so back to the topic at hand, it's really sad that this church conducted itself in this manner. The time to refuse was when the request was made, not the day before the funeral. Really poor form on their part.

    I feel very sorry for the man and his family. Really badly handled at an extremely difficult time for them.
    shouldn't the family have known ahead of time what the stance their chosen church would take on the issue?
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Hey you're welcome. Honestly...it might not seem like it at all, but when I'm not bitching about the ugly hard political stuff, I'm really a fun guy to be around.

    :D Silly fella! Never crossed my mind that you weren't a fun guy! :)

    Politics usually brings out a different side to people. Bit like religion really. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Juberoo wrote:
    shouldn't the family have known ahead of time what the stance their chosen church would take on the issue?

    Don't know about you, but planning a funeral is an extremely stressful business. Last thing you'd be thinking about is whether or not your church is homophobic. As far as I'm concerned if the church didn't bother to mention they had a problem when the initial plans were made then the onus is on them. Not the grieving. And if they really have a problem with performing funerals for particular sections of the community then I would suggest that those are questions they should be asking when the initial request is made. Oh but that's right, that would probably be discriminatory wouldn't it?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    Jeanie wrote:
    Don't know about you, but planning a funeral is an extremely stressful business. Last thing you'd be thinking about is whether or not your church is homophobic.

    Well, in my church, we know exactly what we believe. We actually GO to church and listen to what is being preached. There is no wondering what is expected. Also, everyone knows one another in the congregation quite well....this church didn't know the man, his family had also never made it known that he was gay. No one in the congregation, including the minister knew this information. Hmmm...makes one wonder how religious these people really were first of all. Maybe holiday only worshipers. You know, token service. Secondly, if they didnt' know their church and their church didn't know them well enough to know that the deceased was gay....makes me wonder why they felt a religious funeral was necessary anyways.
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Juberoo wrote:
    Well, in my church, we know exactly what we believe. We actually GO to church and listen to what is being preached. There is no wondering what is expected. Also, everyone knows one another in the congregation quite well....this church didn't know the man, his family had also never made it known that he was gay. No one in the congregation, including the minister knew this information. Hmmm...makes one wonder how religious these people really were first of all. Maybe holiday only worshipers. You know, token service. Secondly, if they didnt' know their church and their church didn't know them well enough to know that the deceased was gay....makes me wonder why they felt a religious funeral was necessary anyways.

    All of which could have been ascertained with the initial request. Not the day before the funeral which they agreed to conduct. My point being that regardless of the churches views in this situation they are not the ones grieving. The man's brother worked at the church, said so in the article, and an official from the church attended the dying man's bedside where they were introduced to his partner. So somebody in the organization knew something about the man and his family. If they were not in the habit of performing funerals for people that were not regular paritioners then the time to say so was when the family initially requested that they conduct the funeral. Regardless of their views on homosexuality, it's pretty poor form to go ahead with planning the funeral and then leave a grieving family in the lurch the day before the funeral. People should have the right to expect to have their loved ones buried in a compassionate and considerate way and if the church doesn't view itself to have a responsibility to all that they agree to conduct funerals for then I would suggest that they need to re evaluate their procedures. If they don't want to hold funerals for homosexuals or people who are not regular paritioners then they need to make that VERY clear LONG before they agree to the job and making the arrangements.

    I would hope that when I die my family isn't forced to confess all my sexual preferences just so that I might have a funeral, but then hell would freeze over before I'd send them off to a church to officiate over my funeral anyway. I really hope that when you die your church doesn't kick your relatives when they're down because of some ridiculous bungling on the part of the organization.

    If you can't see past the fact that this particular church has behaved appallingly on this particular occasion then I really don't see that we've got anything else to discuss on this matter. The church acted badly as far as I'm concerned.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • nickcat0
    nickcat0 Posts: 75
    brokendave wrote:
    Why follow any religion based on a book that contradicts itself, makes grand claims without evidence, and which promotes any value which does not follow the evolution of social understanding?

    I don't understand why you would chose a book like this, pick and chose what to follow based on either your biased upbringing and/or the evolution of social understanding, and then claim it is the end all know all to everything in existence... which then leads to making daily decisions in everyday life and in politics based on those distorted dogmas.

    Please explain.

    I don't want to get off thread ..... so if you really want to know why I'm a Christian , then check out post #14 of the " Why do you believe in God " thread .
    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
    9/9/06
    Everton 3 RS 0
  • Jennytree
    Jennytree Posts: 5,340
    Juberoo wrote:
    Secondly, if they didnt' know their church and their church didn't know them well enough to know that the deceased was gay....makes me wonder why they felt a religious funeral was necessary anyways.

    I'm horrified to think that people have to declare their sexuality before joining a church... I hoped times had moved on from shit like that...

    It was extremely bad form that the church did that... they should have been proud to bury someone who was serving their country, not bothered about who he wanted to fuck.
    This is me:
    http://www.facebook.com/jennytree

    SMELL YER MA!
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    My good friend 69charger asked some very interesting questions in another thread.

    So homosexuality is a sin and an abomination obviously (see the word of god at Lev 18:22) but there are still a few matters which 69charger isn't sure how to deal with, and now that I have read his questions... I can't say I know the answers myself.
    69charger wrote:
    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

    1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    I doubt the gay guy actually practiced at that church. That's like a Muslim being denied Catholic funeral rites and protesting it.

    Just because the family went to that church doesn't mean the family had some right to flaunt his partner and lifestyle through an open mic.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I doubt the gay guy actually practiced at that church. That's like a Muslim being denied Catholic funeral rites and protesting it.

    Just because the family went to that church doesn't mean the family had some right to flaunt his partner and lifestyle through an open mic.

    However you wanna slice it, it was money speaking over faith. If those church leaders had any faith at all...this wouldn't have happened.

    Cowardly and cruel.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    gue_barium wrote:
    However you wanna slice it, it was money speaking over faith. If those church leaders had any faith at all...this wouldn't have happened.

    Cowardly and cruel.

    Um, they obviously have faith because they are opposed to proud homosexual behavior. The cowardly people are the ones who would use a private church to spread a pro-gay agenda.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Um, they obviously have faith because they are opposed to proud homosexual behavior. The cowardly people are the ones who would use a private church to spread a pro-gay agenda.

    This wasn't news. It was a simple little funeral in Texas. The message from the church by their actions is that they have about much faith as a hemorrhoid. According my asshole that means none at all.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    gue_barium wrote:
    This wasn't news. It was a simple little funeral in Texas. The message from the church by their actions is that they have about much faith as a hemorrhoid. According my asshole that means none at all.

    Why do I bother responding to you?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Why do I bother responding to you?

    Because you're insecure, and you need a real Daddy.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Juberoo wrote:
    actually you missed the sardonic undertone to "humans would mess it up and argue amongst one another"....but these things are frequently lost on you...

    anyways, the bible is pretty clear actually on a variety of subjects. Try actually opening one and reading it....you might be suprised at what you find. That way, you won't have to worry about someone tainting your mind...ooooooooooooooo it's all a conspiracy to brainwash you and control every second of every moment regarding every thought or action in your life oooooooooooooo :o
    I've read it. Okay, I admit I skipped through the "begats," but other than that I've read it all. I never worry about anyone or anything tainting my mind, I don't know where you got that from. I found god to be the most unpleasant and unlikeable character in all of literature, and while the bible contains some good stories, they're not at all believeable. Overall, I give it a thumbs-down.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963

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