Why follow any religion based on a book that contradicts itself, makes grand claims without evidence, and which promotes any value which does not follow the evolution of social understanding?
I don't understand why you would chose a book like this, pick and chose what to follow based on either your biased upbringing and/or the evolution of social understanding, and then claim it is the end all know all to everything in existence... which then leads to making daily decisions in everyday life and in politics based on those distorted dogmas.
Please explain.
I don't want to get off thread ..... so if you really want to know why I'm a Christian , then check out post #14 of the " Why do you believe in God " thread .
Secondly, if they didnt' know their church and their church didn't know them well enough to know that the deceased was gay....makes me wonder why they felt a religious funeral was necessary anyways.
I'm horrified to think that people have to declare their sexuality before joining a church... I hoped times had moved on from shit like that...
It was extremely bad form that the church did that... they should have been proud to bury someone who was serving their country, not bothered about who he wanted to fuck.
My good friend 69charger asked some very interesting questions in another thread.
So homosexuality is a sin and an abomination obviously (see the word of god at Lev 18:22) but there are still a few matters which 69charger isn't sure how to deal with, and now that I have read his questions... I can't say I know the answers myself.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
However you wanna slice it, it was money speaking over faith. If those church leaders had any faith at all...this wouldn't have happened.
Cowardly and cruel.
Um, they obviously have faith because they are opposed to proud homosexual behavior. The cowardly people are the ones who would use a private church to spread a pro-gay agenda.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Um, they obviously have faith because they are opposed to proud homosexual behavior. The cowardly people are the ones who would use a private church to spread a pro-gay agenda.
This wasn't news. It was a simple little funeral in Texas. The message from the church by their actions is that they have about much faith as a hemorrhoid. According my asshole that means none at all.
This wasn't news. It was a simple little funeral in Texas. The message from the church by their actions is that they have about much faith as a hemorrhoid. According my asshole that means none at all.
Why do I bother responding to you?
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
actually you missed the sardonic undertone to "humans would mess it up and argue amongst one another"....but these things are frequently lost on you...
anyways, the bible is pretty clear actually on a variety of subjects. Try actually opening one and reading it....you might be suprised at what you find. That way, you won't have to worry about someone tainting your mind...ooooooooooooooo it's all a conspiracy to brainwash you and control every second of every moment regarding every thought or action in your life oooooooooooooo
I've read it. Okay, I admit I skipped through the "begats," but other than that I've read it all. I never worry about anyone or anything tainting my mind, I don't know where you got that from. I found god to be the most unpleasant and unlikeable character in all of literature, and while the bible contains some good stories, they're not at all believeable. Overall, I give it a thumbs-down.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Um, they obviously have faith because they are opposed to proud homosexual behavior. The cowardly people are the ones who would use a private church to spread a pro-gay agenda.
I agree, it is anything but cowardly to stick to a belief and standard even when it isn't "the thing to do" in modern society. Takes a lot of strength to be different I think. Tolerance doesn't mean you have to accept every idea that comes along.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
My good friend 69charger asked some very interesting questions in another thread.
So homosexuality is a sin and an abomination obviously (see the word of god at Lev 18:22) but there are still a few matters which 69charger isn't sure how to deal with, and now that I have read his questions... I can't say I know the answers myself.
Because when you actually study the bible, you find that the only laws that are valid today are the ones that Jesus outlined. Christians today use him as the model they are to follow. Jesus didn't kill, he didn't judge, he didn't own slaves, he didn't make sacrifices.....his presence on the earth and consequent murder set the standards for Christians today. The issues you cite were pre-Jesus. His teachings replaced all other practices.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
I agree, it is anything but cowardly to stick to a belief and standard even when it isn't "the thing to do" in modern society. Takes a lot of strength to be different I think. Tolerance doesn't mean you have to accept every idea that comes along.
So homosexuality is just the latest trend, in your eyes?
I can appreciate that the church is sticking to its core teachings here, but I will say it loud and proud that those teachings are completely flawed if they discriminate like this.
I actually interviewed a priest about these very issues (homosexuality as a sin, New Testament vs. Old Testament). I can post a link if people are interested.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I can appreciate that the church is sticking to its core teachings here, but I will say it loud and proud that those teachings are completely flawed if they discriminate like this.
And we'll just keep going to church! It doesn't matter what you think - morality doesn't change based on what you want. Discriminate is just another word for separate. We're separating ourselves from an immoral influence when we decide to reject behavior that is inconsistent with a moral outlook.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
So homosexuality is just the latest trend, in your eyes?
I can appreciate that the church is sticking to its core teachings here, but I will say it loud and proud that those teachings are completely flawed if they discriminate like this.
I actually interviewed a priest about these very issues (homosexuality as a sin, New Testament vs. Old Testament). I can post a link if people are interested.
I don't believe the idea of a "trend" entered anywhere in my post. However CoroporateWhore put it nicely that "discriminate is just another word for separate".
Just as the liberals and conservatives separate when conveining on issues they believe in, when holding conventions or rallys, when having parties etc.
People of like mind stick together. This is esp. true of religion. Those who do seek a higher spiritual direction, group themseleves with others who think like them.
It never ceases to amaze me that those who cry "discrimination" and "intolerance" are the very ones who label and condemn those who don't think like they do. Pot calling the kettle black mentality.
Why should you care if this church or anyone else for that matter disapproves of homosexuality? Don't they have the right to an opinion, belief or stance?
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
I don't believe the idea of a "trend" entered anywhere in my post. However CoroporateWhore put it nicely that "discriminate is just another word for separate".
Just as the liberals and conservatives separate when conveining on issues they believe in, when holding conventions or rallys, when having parties etc.
People of like mind stick together. This is esp. true of religion. Those who do seek a higher spiritual direction, group themseleves with others who think like them.
It never ceases to amaze me that those who cry "discrimination" and "intolerance" are the very ones who label and condemn those who don't think like they do. Pot calling the kettle black mentality.
Why should you care if this church or anyone else for that matter disapproves of homosexuality? Don't they have the right to an opinion, belief or stance?
Okay, just for the record, in the post I quoted last time you said...
Tolerance doesn't mean you have to accept every idea that comes along.
Every idea that comes along is what I interpreted as "trend". If that wasn't what you meant, fair enough.
I'd say, at this point in time, homosexuality is considered a natural part of the human condition. You don't choose your sexuality anymore than you choose the colour of your skin. To discriminate (or separate) on those grounds is wrong, in my opinion.
I have no problem with people adhering to their faith. It's the outdated "laws" of the faith that I take issue with. The lack of progressive ideas in the Catholic church is partially to blame for the backlash against it in recent years (y'know - along with the scandals), and stories like this don't exactly help their case.
Perhaps more hardcore believers like yourself and CorporateWhore will take this as being a demonstration of strong faith in the face of adversity. The rest of the world just sees it as pointless, offensive prejudice.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
The lack of progressive ideas in the Catholic church is partially to blame for the backlash against it in recent years (y'know - along with the scandals), and stories like this don't exactly help their case.
BS. The church has only gotten more progressive through Vatican II. The Catholic Church is the only growing christian faith in the United States today. The others are declining.
I know there may be a backlash in Ireland, but that largely has to do with the socialist nature of government in that country. Government has taken the place of the church and in lieu of family and charity, government provides compassion to your needs.
I say, keep importing those Polish immigrants!! They're strongly Catholic and they deeply oppose gay marriage in Poland.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
And we'll just keep going to church! It doesn't matter what you think - morality doesn't change based on what you want. Discriminate is just another word for separate. We're separating ourselves from an immoral influence when we decide to reject behavior that is inconsistent with a moral outlook.
Is this where you tell me that organised religion is responsible for morality in the world? Cos I don't buy that. Catholics can't tell me what's moral anymore than anyone else - your belief in a being whose existence is impossible to prove doesn't put you on a pedestal to enforce your beliefs on me.
As I said, I know this is just the church sticking to its core teachings. But the churches morals are as open to question as anyone else's, whether you like it or not, and I'd wager that the vast majority of people see this as a great example of where the church's morals are at best outdated, at worst, offensive.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Which is exactly why he had the bible written to express what his thoughts on right and wrong were as well as how he wanted to be worshiped. Good thing too because he knew that humans would mess it up and argue amongst one another unless he left directions.
Without that book I would have never know that eating shelfish was a sin... good thing I got to that chapter before I hit the Red Lobster "lobster catch" promo.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
BS. The church has only gotten more progressive through Vatican II. The Catholic Church is the only growing christian faith in the United States today. The others are declining.
I know there may be a backlash in Ireland, but that largely has to do with the socialist nature of government in that country. Government has taken the place of the church and in lieu of family and charity, government provides compassion to your needs.
I say, keep importing those Polish immigrants!! They're strongly Catholic and they deeply oppose gay marriage in Poland.
In lieu of family and charity? Ireland has consistently proven itself as, per capita, one of the larger contributors to global causes, with or without the Catholic church.
As for your "importing Polish immigrants" comment, if Poland is so perfectly Catholic, why are they leaving for socialist, atheist Ireland?
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
In lieu of family and charity? Ireland has consistently proven itself as, per capita, one of the larger contributors to global causes, with or without the Catholic church.
As for your "importing Polish immigrants" comment, if Poland is so perfectly Catholic, why are they leaving for socialist, atheist Ireland?
A. The Catholic Church gave over 110% of its revenues for charitable causes last year. That means it gave 10% more than it took in.
B. They're coming to turn you back because you've lost your way, laddy!
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
BS. The church has only gotten more progressive through Vatican II. The Catholic Church is the only growing christian faith in the United States today. The others are declining.
I know there may be a backlash in Ireland, but that largely has to do with the socialist nature of government in that country. Government has taken the place of the church and in lieu of family and charity, government provides compassion to your needs.
I say, keep importing those Polish immigrants!! They're strongly Catholic and they deeply oppose gay marriage in Poland.
Ummmm.....CW, you are so off base on this I can't even believe it.
The Catholic Church is faltering. Many other religions are gaining momentum...and the blunderings of Catholicism are not hindering this endeavor. I'm sorry to tell you this, but your faith is on the way out. If you are truly a religious person, you know very well the bible speaks of true religion being identified by "it's works". Unfortunately for you, the Catholic Church is not looking too positive these days. It's "works" are pretty heinous.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
A. The Catholic Church gave over 110% of its revenues for charitable causes last year. That means it gave 10% more than it took in.
B. They're coming to turn you back because you've lost your way, laddy!
A. Good. I'm all for charity. I still don't see how that negatively affects the rest of the Irish people's donations.
B. Yes, because I've been accosted by dozens of Polish folk trying to turn me from my atheist ways in the last while. But hey, if they're such a danger to our policies, maybe we should build a wall to keep 'em immigrants out. That's the perfect American way, isn't it?
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
A. Good. I'm all for charity. I still don't see how that negatively affects the rest of the Irish people's donations.
B. Yes, because I've been accosted by dozens of Polish folk trying to turn me from my atheist ways in the last while. But hey, if they're such a danger to our policies, maybe we should build a wall to keep 'em immigrants out. That's the perfect American way, isn't it?
Nah you need the immigrants because your birthrate is pathetic. And I thought the Irish had lots of kids. Maybe that was before they aborted them all.
Irish birthrate:
14.4 per 1000 population
That's below sustaining levels, friend.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Nah you need the immigrants because your birthrate is pathetic. And I thought the Irish had lots of kids. Maybe that was before they aborted them all.
Irish birthrate:
14.4 per 1000 population
That's below sustaining levels, friend.
Wonderful - I have no problem with immigrants. They're very welcome to come to Ireland. I don't see what that has to do with the church's stance on homosexuality being outdated though.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Wonderful - I have no problem with immigrants. They're very welcome to come to Ireland. I don't see what that has to do with the church's stance on homosexuality being outdated though.
Polish people are immigrants to Ireland.
Polish people are Catholic.
Catholics oppose homosexuality.
Homosexuality is outdated.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
In case you hadn't noticed, there's a fair amount of Catholics ALREADY IN IRELAND. I don't have a problem with Catholics, CW, I have a problem with discrimination against homosexuals - or prejudice against any naturally occuring part of the human condition. I don't believe the faith necessarily defines the person, so yes, people of all religions are more than welcome to come to Ireland. Even you.:)
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.
The one true church, amen!
Accounting records can be altered.
Furthermore, Jesus never called the church "Catholicism." Quite frankly, name ONE thing that the Catholic Church does in immitation of Christs example and teachings.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Comments
I don't want to get off thread ..... so if you really want to know why I'm a Christian , then check out post #14 of the " Why do you believe in God " thread .
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
I'm horrified to think that people have to declare their sexuality before joining a church... I hoped times had moved on from shit like that...
It was extremely bad form that the church did that... they should have been proud to bury someone who was serving their country, not bothered about who he wanted to fuck.
http://www.facebook.com/jennytree
SMELL YER MA!
So homosexuality is a sin and an abomination obviously (see the word of god at Lev 18:22) but there are still a few matters which 69charger isn't sure how to deal with, and now that I have read his questions... I can't say I know the answers myself.
naděje umírá poslední
Just because the family went to that church doesn't mean the family had some right to flaunt his partner and lifestyle through an open mic.
-Enoch Powell
However you wanna slice it, it was money speaking over faith. If those church leaders had any faith at all...this wouldn't have happened.
Cowardly and cruel.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Um, they obviously have faith because they are opposed to proud homosexual behavior. The cowardly people are the ones who would use a private church to spread a pro-gay agenda.
-Enoch Powell
This wasn't news. It was a simple little funeral in Texas. The message from the church by their actions is that they have about much faith as a hemorrhoid. According my asshole that means none at all.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Why do I bother responding to you?
-Enoch Powell
Because you're insecure, and you need a real Daddy.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I agree, it is anything but cowardly to stick to a belief and standard even when it isn't "the thing to do" in modern society. Takes a lot of strength to be different I think. Tolerance doesn't mean you have to accept every idea that comes along.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Because when you actually study the bible, you find that the only laws that are valid today are the ones that Jesus outlined. Christians today use him as the model they are to follow. Jesus didn't kill, he didn't judge, he didn't own slaves, he didn't make sacrifices.....his presence on the earth and consequent murder set the standards for Christians today. The issues you cite were pre-Jesus. His teachings replaced all other practices.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
So homosexuality is just the latest trend, in your eyes?
I can appreciate that the church is sticking to its core teachings here, but I will say it loud and proud that those teachings are completely flawed if they discriminate like this.
I actually interviewed a priest about these very issues (homosexuality as a sin, New Testament vs. Old Testament). I can post a link if people are interested.
And we'll just keep going to church! It doesn't matter what you think - morality doesn't change based on what you want. Discriminate is just another word for separate. We're separating ourselves from an immoral influence when we decide to reject behavior that is inconsistent with a moral outlook.
-Enoch Powell
I don't believe the idea of a "trend" entered anywhere in my post. However CoroporateWhore put it nicely that "discriminate is just another word for separate".
Just as the liberals and conservatives separate when conveining on issues they believe in, when holding conventions or rallys, when having parties etc.
People of like mind stick together. This is esp. true of religion. Those who do seek a higher spiritual direction, group themseleves with others who think like them.
It never ceases to amaze me that those who cry "discrimination" and "intolerance" are the very ones who label and condemn those who don't think like they do. Pot calling the kettle black mentality.
Why should you care if this church or anyone else for that matter disapproves of homosexuality? Don't they have the right to an opinion, belief or stance?
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Okay, just for the record, in the post I quoted last time you said... Every idea that comes along is what I interpreted as "trend". If that wasn't what you meant, fair enough.
I'd say, at this point in time, homosexuality is considered a natural part of the human condition. You don't choose your sexuality anymore than you choose the colour of your skin. To discriminate (or separate) on those grounds is wrong, in my opinion.
I have no problem with people adhering to their faith. It's the outdated "laws" of the faith that I take issue with. The lack of progressive ideas in the Catholic church is partially to blame for the backlash against it in recent years (y'know - along with the scandals), and stories like this don't exactly help their case.
Perhaps more hardcore believers like yourself and CorporateWhore will take this as being a demonstration of strong faith in the face of adversity. The rest of the world just sees it as pointless, offensive prejudice.
BS. The church has only gotten more progressive through Vatican II. The Catholic Church is the only growing christian faith in the United States today. The others are declining.
I know there may be a backlash in Ireland, but that largely has to do with the socialist nature of government in that country. Government has taken the place of the church and in lieu of family and charity, government provides compassion to your needs.
I say, keep importing those Polish immigrants!! They're strongly Catholic and they deeply oppose gay marriage in Poland.
-Enoch Powell
Is this where you tell me that organised religion is responsible for morality in the world? Cos I don't buy that. Catholics can't tell me what's moral anymore than anyone else - your belief in a being whose existence is impossible to prove doesn't put you on a pedestal to enforce your beliefs on me.
As I said, I know this is just the church sticking to its core teachings. But the churches morals are as open to question as anyone else's, whether you like it or not, and I'd wager that the vast majority of people see this as a great example of where the church's morals are at best outdated, at worst, offensive.
Without that book I would have never know that eating shelfish was a sin... good thing I got to that chapter before I hit the Red Lobster "lobster catch" promo.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
In lieu of family and charity? Ireland has consistently proven itself as, per capita, one of the larger contributors to global causes, with or without the Catholic church.
As for your "importing Polish immigrants" comment, if Poland is so perfectly Catholic, why are they leaving for socialist, atheist Ireland?
A. The Catholic Church gave over 110% of its revenues for charitable causes last year. That means it gave 10% more than it took in.
B. They're coming to turn you back because you've lost your way, laddy!
-Enoch Powell
The Catholic Church is faltering. Many other religions are gaining momentum...and the blunderings of Catholicism are not hindering this endeavor. I'm sorry to tell you this, but your faith is on the way out. If you are truly a religious person, you know very well the bible speaks of true religion being identified by "it's works". Unfortunately for you, the Catholic Church is not looking too positive these days. It's "works" are pretty heinous.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
A. Good. I'm all for charity. I still don't see how that negatively affects the rest of the Irish people's donations.
B. Yes, because I've been accosted by dozens of Polish folk trying to turn me from my atheist ways in the last while. But hey, if they're such a danger to our policies, maybe we should build a wall to keep 'em immigrants out. That's the perfect American way, isn't it?
Budget: Revenues (2005) $247 million; expenditures (2005) $243 million
The Catholic Church is the biggest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#The_American_Religious_Identification_Survey
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.
The one true church, amen!
-Enoch Powell
Nah you need the immigrants because your birthrate is pathetic. And I thought the Irish had lots of kids. Maybe that was before they aborted them all.
Irish birthrate:
14.4 per 1000 population
That's below sustaining levels, friend.
-Enoch Powell
Wonderful - I have no problem with immigrants. They're very welcome to come to Ireland. I don't see what that has to do with the church's stance on homosexuality being outdated though.
Polish people are immigrants to Ireland.
Polish people are Catholic.
Catholics oppose homosexuality.
Homosexuality is outdated.
-Enoch Powell
In case you hadn't noticed, there's a fair amount of Catholics ALREADY IN IRELAND. I don't have a problem with Catholics, CW, I have a problem with discrimination against homosexuals - or prejudice against any naturally occuring part of the human condition. I don't believe the faith necessarily defines the person, so yes, people of all religions are more than welcome to come to Ireland. Even you.:)
Furthermore, Jesus never called the church "Catholicism." Quite frankly, name ONE thing that the Catholic Church does in immitation of Christs example and teachings.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.