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The morals of an atheist
Vedderlution_Baby
Posts: 2,535
So, I've had this argument used against me twice.
"But with an atheist, what stops them from killing another person?Or stealing? They don't have morals. Why would they?"
One of the most ridiculous, ignorant, and unfounded comments I've had the unfortunate luck to be around and hear.
Has any other atheist around here had their morals questioned with this argument? Why do people come up with this shit? And how can they really believe that?
"But with an atheist, what stops them from killing another person?Or stealing? They don't have morals. Why would they?"
One of the most ridiculous, ignorant, and unfounded comments I've had the unfortunate luck to be around and hear.
Has any other atheist around here had their morals questioned with this argument? Why do people come up with this shit? And how can they really believe that?
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do earthworms not kill other earthworms because of a earthworms god?
do sharks not kill other sharks because their shark god finds that immoral while eating seals is permissible??
simple rule of thumb... if you are talking to someone who believes in god or other crazy supernatural fuckers that live in the sky... you are talking to an idiot
There is another video about a bird named Mo that took care of a little kitten and they became best friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQtqesaWU4w
I'm sure all these animals worship the Christian God. NOT!
Point their ignorance over to http://www.oxytocin.org that explains the chemical basis for altruism and morality.
can i play the generalization game too?
Why is that a generalization?
Sounds like a marker in the sand statement.
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Well, this argument raged in philosophical circles, around the time of Immanuel Kant. Kant came up with a deontological ethical concept called the categorical imperative. It sparked fraught debate in its time. Do read this Wikipedia link, because it covers a lot of the ground of this sort of discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative
Cheers.
are you really asking why "if you are talking to someone who believes in god or other crazy supernatural fuckers that live in the sky... you are talking to an idiot" is a generalization????
I don't really know why that's so hard to imagine that it is
WASHINGTON, May 28 (UPI) -- A study by government scientists in Washington indicates humans are hard-wired to be unselfish.
Neuroscientists Jorge Moll and Jordan Grafman of the National Institutes of Health say experiments they conducted have led them to conclude unselfishness is not a matter of morality, The Washington Post reports.
Rather, the two say altruism is something that makes people feel good, lighting up a primitive part of the human brain that usually responds to food or sex.
Grafman and Moll have been scanning the brains of volunteers who were asked to think about a scenario involving either donating a sum of money to charity or keeping it for themselves.
They are among scientists across the United States using imaging and psychological experiments to study whether the brain has a built-in moral compass.
The results are showing many aspects of morality appear to be hard-wired in the brain, opening up a new window on what it means to be good.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science/2007/05/28/humans_hardwired_to_be_generous/3792/
Actually, they've used excitatory and inhibitory chemicals to stimulate or inhibit the particular receptors and observed the predicted outcome in behavior. That's causality.
No, this is the article I mentioned above. It mentions absolutely nothing about the science. The science is much more complex than is let on here. In-fact, the difference from brain to brain, may mean that morality is hard-wired differently into each individual brain. That is a more accurate assertion of the facts. Not that they mention "universal morality" in the article, but that's what most people's brains would confabulate from reading that article.
It does "light-up" the limbic system as well. Altruism is selfish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsVKbHY_T0
That's what we call Nihilism right?
It does us no good to say that we cannot obtain knowledge. We simply must say that all knowledge is provisional, and potentially flawed, and as such, the best method for obtaining knowledge is one of strict guidelines, like science. Science is the best knowledge we have.
Science says, there is no universal morality, observation of reality says this also.
Imagination and fantasy say there is.
Which form is a better method of obtaining knowledge? One is highly provisional and based on other knowledge, and the other is just a matter of confabulation.
It's (the statement) just saying, "I rely on myself", I don't understand what you're talkng about, nor do I need to."
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Do you ever get laid?
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Well, you'd be arguing with the late Jacob Bronowski on that one. You should check out the whole lecture, if you can. It's not on Google Video anymore, unfortunately. It's called "Knowledge or Certainty", from the 1973 BBC series The Ascent of Man. Other episodes from the series are still up.
Here are a couple of Wiki links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Bronowski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Man
And a little link, with synopses of each episode of The Ascent of Man:
http://www.tvfactual.co.uk/ascent_of_man.htm
clean water....
Heck, other countries and civilizations do. In fact, all countries and civilizations did, at one time.
And we and the animals survived.
So let's take away government influence and AK47's.
We'd have religious influence and spears.
Let's take away religious influence and weapons.
*gasp*
Why, we'd be equal to animals!!
mmm...the evolution of "civil" civilization is ... a bit more subtle than that, but it has always included the aspect of survival.
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Yea, I just make sure I don't say the true things people don't want to hear. I'm working on a list.
Einstein and Bronowski can go at it in heaven.
How do you know they're up there?
Well, they aren't. They are dead, goners, non-existent.
How'd you know?
Edit: And don't link me to some bloody Susan Blackmore site. If I wanted tips on anything from her, it would be hair styling.
Because I know about the brain.
How'd you know you know all about the brain?
You're getting dangerously close to Angelica-territory.
uh-oh.
this might belong on that list.
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Hey...
What is the Mind?
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Nah, I'm on a late night beer kick, that's all.
Mork's girlfriend.
then again I'm agnostic not an atheist.
my ex-sister and i used to go round after round on this. she'd insist that because i did not believe that Jesus Christ was my Lord and Savior and that he died for my sins that i could not possibly have any morals or values. :rolleyes: of course i'd tell her that she was fucked in the head. at least for the last few years my other siblings and i have enough sense to not have anything to do with her.
angels share laughter
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