becos the women around here dont hate me enough already

angelica wrote:

And God bless men who think intelligence is hot!

I am a blessed one.

Jeanie wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here, sorry.

Considering the millions and billions of people in our societies, we've got many people contributing to the stereotypes and roles on all kind of levels. For example, in terms of men and sexual assault, I saw some stereotypes in this thread alone.

I see those stereotypes as "scripts". People use scripts when they are unaware of the fullness of the situation. We use a shortcut to gloss over what we don't understand.

I have studied transactional analysis for years. It's the branch of psychology that deals with interpersonal relationships, including power dynamics. It's the branch that came up with the concept of these "scripts". It's normal that we use these scripts in order to rationalize our experiences. It's where we are at. We are not perfect all knowing beings, nor will we be in the near future. We can't know everything at any one time.

However, I don't buy that a few "leaders" are in control of us, or of the system and how we act each day, because that is unempowering besides being unrealistic. I realize our experience that we are powerless is real, but it's not accurate in actuality. It's a consequence of our mindset and how we choose to think. Many of us make these choices unconsciously. Once we recognize this, we realize we can change the way we think and uncover greater degrees of power.

I understand many will not make that shift, and will continue to live life based on their perceptions. This is the problem Ahnimus is always referring to. It's fair game for people to make those choices. I cannot support, though, when people use their personal perceptions for justification to absolve themselves of accountability for their choices, or to unfairly blame or hold one sex accountable. Again, this is exactly the problem that guys like Ahnimus and surferdude get so frustrated by. It's sexism and prejudice, and it's not realistic.

angelica wrote:

Considering the millions and billions of people in our societies, we've got many people contributing to the stereotypes and roles on all kind of levels. For example, in terms of men and sexual assault, I saw some stereotypes in this thread alone.

I see those stereotypes as "scripts". People use scripts when they are unaware of the fullness of the situation. We use a shortcut to gloss over what we don't understand.

I have studied transactional analysis for years. It's the branch of psychology that deals with interpersonal relationships, including power dynamics. It's the branch that came up with the concept of these "scripts". It's normal that we use these scripts in order to rationalize our experiences. It's where we are at. We are not perfect all knowing beings, nor will we be in the near future. We can't know everything at any one time.

However, I don't buy that a few "leaders" are in control of us, or of the system and how we act each day, because that is unempowering besides being unrealistic. I realize our experience that we are powerless is real, but it's not accurate in actuality. It's a consequence of our mindset and how we choose to think. Many of us make these choices unconsciously. Once we recognize this, we realize we can change the way we think and uncover greater degrees of power.

I understand many will not make that shift, and will continue to live life based on their perceptions. This is the problem Ahnimus is always referring to. It's fair game for people to make those choices. I cannot support, though, when people use their personal perceptions for justification to absolve themselves of accountability for their choices, or to unfairly blame or hold one sex accountable. Again, this is exactly the problem that guys like Ahnimus and surferdude get so frustrated by. It's sexism and prejudice, and it's not realistic.

Sounds personal.

You had it going til you got here:

angelica wrote:

It's normal that we use these scripts in order to rationalize our experiences. It's where we are at. We are not perfect all knowing beings, nor will we be in the near future. We can't know everything at any one time.

angelica wrote:

Considering the millions and billions of people in our societies, we've got many people contributing to the stereotypes and roles on all kind of levels. For example, in terms of men and sexual assault, I saw some stereotypes in this thread alone.

I see those stereotypes as "scripts". People use scripts when they are unaware of the fullness of the situation. We use a shortcut to gloss over what we don't understand.

I have studied transactional analysis for years. It's the branch of psychology that deals with interpersonal relationships, including power dynamics. It's the branch that came up with the concept of these "scripts". It's normal that we use these scripts in order to rationalize our experiences. It's where we are at. We are not perfect all knowing beings, nor will we be in the near future. We can't know everything at any one time.

However, I don't buy that a few "leaders" are in control of us, or of the system and how we act each day, because that is unempowering besides being unrealistic. I realize our experience that we are powerless is real, but it's not accurate in actuality. It's a consequence of our mindset and how we choose to think. Many of us make these choices unconsciously. Once we recognize this, we realize we can change the way we think and uncover greater degrees of power.

I understand many will not make that shift, and will continue to live life based on their perceptions. This is the problem Ahnimus is always referring to. It's fair game for people to make those choices. I cannot support, though, when people use their personal perceptions for justification to absolve themselves of accountability for their choices, or to unfairly blame or hold one sex accountable. Again, this is exactly the problem that guys like Ahnimus and surferdude get so frustrated by. It's sexism and prejudice, and it's not realistic.

I'm sorry angelica, but I don't think I've said anything in this thread that couldn't have been sorted out by simple communication. And the only thing that I have questioned is a) the validity of one lot of statistics and b) why I am being personally attacked for the views I am assumed to have.
And I'm not understanding how what you are saying here in anyway relates to my question about the role of people who do not have children.
I don't understand why in order for Ahnimus to have the views that he does, I need to be attacked. I'm certainly hoping that no one is accusing me of being either sexist or prejudiced because that is not the case.

angelica wrote:

Please elaborate.

I think, you need to relish in your anonimity. I don't know how to tell you to do that.

Jeanie wrote:

I'm sorry angelica, but I don't think I've said anything in this thread that couldn't have been sorted out by simple communication. And the only thing that I have questioned is a) the validity of one lot of statistics and b) why I am being personally attacked for the views I am assumed to have.
And I'm not understanding how what you are saying here in anyway relates to my question about the role of people who do not have children.
I don't understand why in order for Ahnimus to have the views that he does, I need to be attacked. I'm certainly hoping that no one is accusing me of being either sexist or prejudiced because that is not the case.

Jeanie, I did not intend any of this to refer to you personally. I was speaking universally. I trust that people will either relate or not. Personal judgment is not my place.

I definitely don't mean to in any way imply anything regarding your interaction with Ahnimus. I know personally how heavy handed his communication style can feel on the receiving end.

As for the role of people who do not have children, I can't talk about you personally, but I can say that I see women, in all manner of their interactions, taking a submissive role to men, which in turns supports the male dominant position. it's not all one or the other, but it depends on each interaction and the dynamic. For example, some times I am assertive, or equal, other times, I am submissive. Dominance/submission are two polarities--two sides--and are not the same as the equality within each individual that Ahnimus calls for. For example, I personally do this in numerous places in my life. I'm conscious of it and I do it by choice. I don't feel unempowered when I "let" my man drive. Or when he carries my groceries. He's stronger than I am. Or when he likes to walk on the outside of us, to protect me from traffic and such. I love that stuff. Just as I said earlier, I love being a mother, and cooking meals, and I'm pretty good in some other feminine roles, whether assertive or more service oriented. We all support these "imbalances". I don't think they are pathological to the degree Ahnimus might. I love the give and take. I think they are complementary.

I see women, beyond motherhood, supporting the dominance/submission cycles all the time. The thing is, we can't partake and then point the finger at men when there is fallout--which there most certainly is. Men pay the huge cost for this system and it's flaws, just as we do.

angelica wrote:

I don't really have anything to work with here, but when you can give me some points, I'll gladly respond.

I think i spelled 'anonimity' wrong. I could be wrong. I don't know how else I could spell it.
I think, for starters, you should look that up for clarification.

Then we can continue this discussion.

gue_barium wrote:

I think i spelled 'anonimity' wrong. I could be wrong. I don't know how else I could spell it.
I think, for starters, you should look that up for clarification.

Then we can continue this discussion.

Nice try.