Terrorism, seriously..

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Comments

  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Kann wrote:
    Oh come on. America's foreign policy tends to suck badly but human beings didn't wait for the CIA to exist to become prejudiced, stupid, intolerant, violent and extremist. People in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and rural parts of most countries in the world do that very well on there own. It has more to do with a lack of education/contact with a wide world than a massive worlwide scheme by the CIA to make the muslims look bad.
    The law in saudi arabia is backwards and shitty, that's a fact. The oppression and lack of freedom in ex-Taliban-controlled afghanistan and Iran is high, that's also true. This doesn't have much to do with muslim faith but it's still true.

    what allows extremism to exist is fear ... it's part of the shock doctrine i suppose ... you have to look at countries like iran to see - once a burgeoning centre of democracy and freedom in the middle east ... then a cia funded coup put a dictator in ... and now look at the place ... these hard liners rule a populace that is generally quite liberal ...
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    I hate to be the stupid 'can't we all just get along' guy, but I think it's equally close-minded to say that the problems with Islamic fundamentalism stem entirely from American intervention in the reasons as it is to say that we've had absolutely no impact. Extremism feeds on ignorance and poverty, two things of which there are unfortunately a great amount in the rural regions of these countries. There are human rights abuses in these countries beyond the pale, and it doesn't ALL stem from us. I think we have to be careful that in our attempt to gauge our responsibility for the instability of the region, we move to condone or explain away such behavior. I doubt many here would be willing to condone the actions of an abortion clinic doctor, simply due to his commitment to what he feels is right and the injustices he feels has been done to the unborn. Despite the shit that we've caused (and we've caused alot of shit), in the end people need to be held personally responsible for their actions. You can call the U.S. a destructive force in the region, but all the destructive actions alone cannot put someone in the cockpit of a hijacked plane. There's no past degredation that can condone such actions (which I'm not saying people here were saying, I'm just concerned that this is what those conversations sometimes lead towards).
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    Mutiny! he cried wrote:
    I found it amusing you started your post being condescending then proceeded to complain about others doing it.

    I didn't notice anyone being so absolute towards Obama supporters in this thread as you claim.


    I sure can vouch for such attitudes. As an Obama supporter I've been on the receiving end of it sometimes (although many posters disagree with me and others with absolutely no codescencion). I think that is less a problem of solely left-wingers, and more of a problem with absolutists in general. If you see the world as all one way or one thing, then you're probably going to be a little condescending towards those that don't. Just something I've felt in my time here and in the real world.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    digster wrote:
    I hate to be the stupid 'can't we all just get along' guy, but I think it's equally close-minded to say that the problems with Islamic fundamentalism stem entirely from American intervention in the reasons as it is to say that we've had absolutely no impact. Extremism feeds on ignorance and poverty, two things of which there are unfortunately a great amount in the rural regions of these countries. There are human rights abuses in these countries beyond the pale, and it doesn't ALL stem from us. I think we have to be careful that in our attempt to gauge our responsibility for the instability of the region, we move to condone or explain away such behavior. I doubt many here would be willing to condone the actions of an abortion clinic doctor, simply due to his commitment to what he feels is right and the injustices he feels has been done to the unborn. Despite the shit that we've caused (and we've caused alot of shit), in the end people need to be held personally responsible for their actions. You can call the U.S. a destructive force in the region, but all the destructive actions alone cannot put someone in the cockpit of a hijacked plane. There's no past degredation that can condone such actions (which I'm not saying people here were saying, I'm just concerned that this is what those conversations sometimes lead towards).

    in many cases that prosperity gap is caused by us intervention ... it's not always military intervention, there is economic influences as well ... yes - the US is not solely what ails the world but failure to acknowledge the impacts of exploitive policies is what puts us in the state we are in now ...
  • PJ_Saluki
    PJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    I'd say the Cold War had more to do with a lot of these problems than a simple "U.S. is bad" thing. The U.S. and other members of NATO tried to keep the U.S.S.R. from expanding its empire into the Middle East and Africa. In the process some bad people got put into high positions. Dirty dealing all around, so don't think that the Brits and France and others weren't involved.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    All it would take is one small attack on US soil to put this country in a frenzy and write the government a blank check to do whatever..

    So when the next attack happens, and 30, 100, maybe 3000 people die.. how many million more are we going to kill in retaliation? What is the 9/11 retaliation total as of now?

    The big question I'm getting at, is can Obama fight terrorism more efficiently than Bush?

    You have two options the way I see it. You can be a pussy, let them push you around and hope they go away, or you can be tough and keep poking at the bees nest... It's a lose, lose situation.. humanity amazes me sometimes.

    we have never been able to end violent crime. there are millions of violent crimes in America alone every year. Now we call it terrorism is it servers our unmentionalble purposes. All we need do is not stand for it. But too many voters like it.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Kann wrote:
    Oh come on. America's foreign policy tends to suck badly but human beings didn't wait for the CIA to exist to become prejudiced, stupid, intolerant, violent and extremist. People in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and rural parts of most countries in the world do that very well on there own. It has more to do with a lack of education/contact with a wide world than a massive worlwide scheme by the CIA to make the muslims look bad.
    The law in saudi arabia is backwards and shitty, that's a fact. The oppression and lack of freedom in ex-Taliban-controlled afghanistan and Iran is high, that's also true. This doesn't have much to do with muslim faith but it's still true.
    Yea, I think our foreign policy pisses people off...plain and simple. It doesn't directly cause social problems like horrible treatment of women and gay people, lack of free speech, basically no freedom of religion, etc. Our policies support the regimes who cause all these social problems, making it harder for the people to fight against them, but the problems were there before America or Britain or Russia started messing with the region.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    Mutiny! he cried wrote:
    I didn't notice anyone being so absolute towards Obama supporters in this thread as you claim.
    Post number #3
  • Sweet Emotion
    Sweet Emotion Posts: 100
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    "Jeremiah (Wright) was a bull frog...
    he was a good friend of mine...
    I never understood a fuckin sin-gle
    word he said because my Ipod just
    blew my mind.

    He said CHANGE... to the the world ,
    all the boys and girls, CHANGE to the fishies
    in the deep blue sea , CHANGE to you and me."


    honey....wake up...

    huh? wha?

    you fell asleep during the sermon with your Ipod on again.

    Oh I did? heh...good sermon honey....The lord spoke to me through my Ipod...he sang me some CCR this time. I freaking love this little Ipod thing...it's so tiny and freakin cool...anyhow...let's bust this shit hole...I'll go get the car...watch the kids will ya?

    See ya next Sunday Reverend... (tosses spare change in the collection plate)

    That wasn't CCR. It really wasn't much of anything.
    I'm not who you think i am....
  • justam
    justam Posts: 21,415
    Anyway, I thought the lyrics were "Joy to the World."
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Sweet Emotion wrote:
    That wasn't CCR. It really wasn't much of anything.

    youre right... it was 3 dog night.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Sweet Emotion
    Sweet Emotion Posts: 100
    catefrances wrote:
    youre right... it was 3 dog night.

    yes, it was. A band you are too young to know about.
    I'm not who you think i am....
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Sweet Emotion wrote:
    yes, it was. A band you are too young to know about.

    oh pish posh you dont even know how old i am. ;)

    and besides i know shakespeare and i can assure you i i wasnt around in elizabethan times. :D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Sweet Emotion
    Sweet Emotion Posts: 100
    catefrances wrote:
    oh pish posh you dont even know how old i am. ;)

    and besides i know shakespeare and i can assure you i i wasnt around in elizabethan times. :D

    “No sir, no jot, not I! I know thy favor well - ‘tho now you have no seacap on your head.”
    I'm not who you think i am....
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    Sweet Emotion wrote:
    yes, it was. A band you are too young to know about.
    Thems fighting words :)
    I'll bet Cate knows about them, i also have a fair idea she knows the story of where their name originated from ;)
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Sweet Emotion wrote:
    That wasn't CCR. It really wasn't much of anything.


    Not anything...just everything...and dead on accurate.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    catefrances wrote:
    youre right... it was 3 dog night.

    http://www.google.ca/search?q=ccr+bullfrog&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

    I prefer the CCR version.

    It stands for Change you Cant Remember
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    Thems fighting words :)
    I'll bet Cate knows about them, i also have a fair idea she knows the story of where their name originated from ;)

    ooh ooh indeed i do know what a 3 dog night is. all us aussies do. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Grace7
    Grace7 Posts: 53
    US war on terror is abject failure and likely a trillion dollar industry. Not much money to be had focusing on foreign policy. Would it have been so wrong to air the interveiw with hostage holder on US media. We could listen. What is being said doesn't match what happened. Americans and Brits were hostages. This operation had a huge impact with much less loss of life than there could have been. If we want to see fewer lives taken in attacks it might be good policy to point out when lives are spared.
  • Grace7
    Grace7 Posts: 53
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    So when did they take away women's rights? Or is getting stoned to death to save her family's honor because three dudes ganged raped her a part of it?
    Yes a problem but where is your sense of proportion. Half a million children under 12 years of age died by 1996 under Clinton's US initiated sanctions in Iraq by barring common medicines.The average death toll was 5,000 a month for that age group according to UN/WHO. Care about those mothers or the mothers can't feed their children in Gaza.80% of children there are malnourished.What about if you are expecting a child in southern Lebanon or Iraq and you know that baby may be born with horrific deformations from the use of depleted uranium. Isn't it pc to speak out for women in this context? The Karen Hughes approach while at WhiteHouse and State Dept. used "womens rights" to promote the Bush,PNAC plan to "transform"the arab world.How did this secretary and I mean secretary like type type rise to such power.The topic becomes distractive and hypocritical.She played a major role in cable co's blocking international news here. Is it too trite to say : The revolution will not be televised

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