Iraq War information

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  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the kurds? or the "large" group of muslims who were held under oppression from saddam?

    you are arent naive. a naive person would think otherwise.



    I think the people who support whats going on there, do so because they eventually want a peaceful Iraq and freedom in a middle east country.

    sounds silly to need war to make peace, but history has proven that to be true sometimes.

    you think the kurds or the mulsims repressed under Hussein want people to die to make things right? I would like to think that most kurds, shiites, sunni would prefer peaceful means and not to see the other side destroyed. Maybe the thought process IS that different...but you would think the average Iraqi just wants the violence to end.

    And I disagree that war brings peace....when has this been proven?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    you think the kurds or the mulsims repressed under Hussein want people to die to make things right? .
    in some cases, yes.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    I would like to think that most kurds, shiites, sunni would prefer peaceful means and not to see the other side destroyed.
    Maybe the thought process IS that different...but you would think the average Iraqi just wants the violence to end.
    are you kidding? I would like to think that too. but it doesnt appear to be the case.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    And I disagree that war brings peace....when has this been proven?

    WWI WWII
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    Dig it. More good news from Iraq:

    http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/259406

    Ya, war sure is great, huh ? Especially the optional ones - I really love those.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in some cases, yes.

    are you kidding? I would like to think that too. but it doesnt appear to be the case.



    WWI WWII
    Am I kidding about which point? You just agreed that most people would prefer peace, right?
    I'm not kidding. But I don't honestly know enough to be sure ((edit: without going there yourself, I dont know how anyone could get an honest feel of the REAL public 'mood' on this topic....unless you trust the media to tell you ;) )). But my guess, based on human nature, would be that these ethnic groups are not so indoctrinated as to want death to the other groups. Small,extremist percentages of each ethnicity? yes...but not the average person. And I think the media portrays it otherwise.


    And WWI and WWII....the lines drawn and results of those wars continue to be reasons for conflict to this day...they didn't bring any peace. Nothing positive came of them. At least nothing measurable, relative to the negative.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    this conversation reminded me of a doc I saw recently, so I looked it up....
    what I found is a perfect example of the way the US media censors coverage of the war.

    This is what Americans saw on ABC:
    http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8888178944756435960&q=embedded+in+baghdad&total=30&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

    This is the actual doc, as aired in parts, but in it's entirety in the UK, and on CBC in Canada:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nhGl1VbAig
    (several parts)

    ALL of the more heartbreaking footage is removed from the ABC version, and it's dumbed down into 4 minutes. The hatchet job is pretty sad. Blame time constraints or whatever if you want...but other countries were able to air the full peice (and it IS a feature of life with AMERICAN soldiers...you'd think it would be more important for americans to see it than Brits or Canucks).


    On the Guardian website, when mentioning that their photographer's doc had aired in the US, said this:
    "The network's news channel showed chunks of Smith's documentary in a longer film of its own about the conflict on Monday, prompting a flood of positive responses from the public to the broadcaster."

    What longer film are they talking about? Anyone know? The "chunks" were just intro'd by an American anchor....
    It almost sounds like Guardian is ok with the editing job....hmmm
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    have you been to Iraq?

    Have you been to Rwanda? have you been to Krakow? Have you developed positive memories there? Bet some nice things happened... should we stop focusing on the bad there...

    I am sorry I engage you - I know you prefer to pretend..without regard for facts.. after all you are American and want to feel good about yourself.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Have you been to Rwanda? have you been to Krakow? Have you developed positive memories there? Bet some nice things happened... should we stop focusing on the bad there...

    I am sorry I engage you - I know you prefer to pretend..without regard for facts.. after all you are American and want to feel good about yourself.

    don't be sorry. you haunt engaged me. all you did was avoid my question.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    don't be sorry. you haunt engaged me. all you did was avoid my question.

    Its not really relevant where I have been.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Am I kidding about which point? You just agreed that most people would prefer peace, right?
    I'm not kidding. But I don't honestly know enough to be sure ((edit: without going there yourself, I dont know how anyone could get an honest feel of the REAL public 'mood' on this topic....unless you trust the media to tell you ;) )). But my guess, based on human nature, would be that these ethnic groups are not so indoctrinated as to want death to the other groups. Small,extremist percentages of each ethnicity? yes...but not the average person. And I think the media portrays it otherwise.


    And WWI and WWII....the lines drawn and results of those wars continue to be reasons for conflict to this day...they didn't bring any peace. Nothing positive came of them. At least nothing measurable, relative to the negative.

    look man, I hate war as much as you. I would also like to believe most people do. but as seen in Iraq thats not the case. shiites and sunnis kill each other daily.

    and as for something positive coming from WWI and WWII. I'll ask the obvious, you dont think its positive to rid the world of hilter and the nazis? in order for that to happen, war was necessary.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Its not really relevant where I have been.

    you seem to paint your own picture of exactly what is going on in Iraq. maybe you would have a different opinion if you've been there.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you seem to paint your own picture of exactly what is going on in Iraq. maybe you would have a different opinion if you've been there.

    So you think the routine news reports of 60 dead - and 140 dead, and the battles where insurgents are engaged in a firefight - and 3 US soldiers dead - 8 dead - 4 dead..

    Those are just the cons that can be offset by a relative normal lives 400 miles to the north?

    60 dead today is just letters? 80 injured.. just letters? What does it look like? If the media showed what it looked like.. they would be reporting more accurately - but it is glossed over with photos that don't show the suffering, agony and blood....

    and you say they are painting a disproportionatly negative picture?

    you see the guys on television learning to walk on state-of-the-art artificial limbs.. but you didn't see that guy on the ground with his leg blown off fighting for his life.... or the ones that fought for their lives and lost.

    you saw months of fireworks at the start of the war blowing all over the city of bagdad.. but not the men, women and children that were schredded by them..

    The picture painted by the media is overwhelmingly biased toward the positive. and you interpret them and painting the picture badly.

    You are blind and it is without question a deliberate blindness you choose.

    and your propaganda and those like you are what allow it to continue. There are people dying today - hungry and unattended in Iraq - and they pray that someone cares enough to help them... Sadly they are wrong.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I do not think the media paints it overwhelmingly positive.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    The Iraq war is a crime against humanity.

    It disgusts me any country can do what is being done right now to another country and sleep at night.

    Murder sanitized by a corrupt media.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    look man, I hate war as much as you. I would also like to believe most people do. but as seen in Iraq thats not the case. shiites and sunnis kill each other daily.

    and as for something positive coming from WWI and WWII. I'll ask the obvious, you dont think its positive to rid the world of hilter and the nazis? in order for that to happen, war was necessary.
    people kill people daily, period. The people killing are extremists. They will probably continue to kill each other until one side "wins"...but I don't think the violence is supported by the majority of those people....it's splitting hairs anyway.

    I don't ook at WWII as a positive in that the world got rid of Hitler...I look at it as a negative in that Hitler's actions, and allied reactions caused millions to die. The war was started with imperialist intentions, and fought by the allies as self defense. How will history view the Iraq situation?
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    Abuskedti wrote:
    60 dead today is just letters? 80 injured.. just letters? What does it look like? If the media showed what it looked like.. they would be reporting more accurately - but it is glossed over with photos that don't show the suffering, agony and blood....

    I remember watching American news about the Iraq war and wondering - where's the blood, where's the gore ? To the American media it was a bloodless war. And I remember being really surprised one day when ABC or CBS showed footage of an American soldier getting hit and bleeding very badly. It was so conspicuous, it stuck out like a sore thumb.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I do not think the media paints it overwhelmingly positive.

    No comment on the different versions of the same documentary I posted above?

    seeing a senior iraqi woman bullied and crawling around her trashed house pickin up the meds that troops tossed all over the floor
    kids bloodied
    kids witnessing a family friend shot dead (and the body on the porch of the same poor woman from the day before)
    an iraqi policeman with his leg blown half off
    american soldiers dying
    american soldiers crying about the length of their tour


    none of which was shown on the edited ABC version. You should watch those links man...the voiceover might be too sexy for you tho.

    (they are youtube and googlevid links, but only showing mainstream media stories - should be legit enough for ya)
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    No comment on the different versions of the same documentary I posted above?

    seeing a senior iraqi woman bullied and crawling around her trashed house pickin up the meds that troops tossed all over the floor
    kids bloodied
    kids witnessing a family friend shot dead (and the body on the porch of the same poor woman from the day before)
    an iraqi policeman with his leg blown half off
    american soldiers dying
    american soldiers crying about the length of their tour


    none of which was shown on the edited ABC version. You should watch those links man...the voiceover might be too sexy for you tho.

    (they are youtube and googlevid links, but only showing mainstream media stories - should be legit enough for ya)

    o you know how I love the voice overs. the ABC video was extremely negative. sure it wasnt as long as the other but it still shows a horrible "normal day" in Iraq. the news broadcast you posted is only on for 30 mins each night, so yea, there are time constraints. how long is the UK and canada programs? hour??

    so I dont see your point.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o you know how I love the voice overs. the ABC video was extremely negative. sure it wasnt as long as the other but it still shows a horrible "normal day" in Iraq. the news broadcast you posted is only on for 30 mins each night, so yea, there are time constraints. how long is the UK and canada programs? hour??

    so I dont see your point.

    not sure about the UK...
    I'm pretty sure this was aired on the National in Canada....which (someon correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not a regular viewer) is an hour long show - a half hour of news, then a half hour of special interest documentary footage....the doc was broken into parts to be aired in it's entirety. But that's what is frustrating me....why was it a British photographer doing this story (about US troops), and why was it shown in it's entirety in Canada, but not the US? What does that tell ya about the coverage in the US? It should have been shown SOMEWHERE, if not during a half hour ABC spot. But it wasn't.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    and my point is stated above....the US version of the story is only enough to make you say, "oh my how horrible" but not enough to enrage/disgust you. The full version definitely eraged and disgusted me.....so I guess I'm saying that the US is only getting a half truth, which paints the war in a more positive light than it should be shown in.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    and my point is stated above....the US version of the story is only enough to make you say, "oh my how horrible" but not enough to enrage/disgust you. The full version definitely eraged and disgusted me.....so I guess I'm saying that the US is only getting a half truth, which paints the war in a more positive light than it should be shown in.

    thats just your opinion. as soon as I saw the little boy all bloodied I was disgusted.

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