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Iraq War information

jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
edited September 2007 in A Moving Train
where does everyone get their information from?

all I hear on this board is how bad Iraq is. so much death, America is the evil occupier, millions have died.

I have NEVER heard one positive thing about the Iraq war on TV. no mainstream media source ever reports positive news. the public seems to thrive of negative news, so the media runs it, increasing their ratings. which is what they are all out for anyway.


but wait wait, I thought all main stream media is propaganda.

why don't they report anything positive? there has to be many areas of Iraq that are very happy. the kurds in the north for example, or the majority of shiites. sunnis are the ones now under attack because saddam suppressed the shittes for 30 years.


so where does everyone get their info from? do you suck up the "propaganda" when the mainstream media reports the atrocities that go on? they all of sudden become credible ?

my point is that, I think and hope much more positive stuff is going on in Iraq that is unreported and its hypocritical for most to credit the main stream media when they report bad stuff, but its propaganda when/if its positive.

Disclaimer, I have been drinking tonight :) thanks for listening to my rant.....carry on

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hV3vyRiwdeA
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • dolly rockerdolly rocker Posts: 352
    well you're completely wrong,,this war is a scam on our generation...we're not fighting terrorists,,,we're fighting Iran and Syria thats the main prob....my brother is over there he joined the day after sept 11th and he tells me its the Iranians who are causing the problems,,we are already technically going into another war with IRAN. Thats such a shame,,,,,, beware my friends Iran is next,, be prepared its going to be a tough next couple of years
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where does everyone get their information from?

    all I hear on this board is how bad Iraq is. so much death, America is the evil occupier, millions have died.

    I have NEVER heard one positive thing about the Iraq war on TV. no mainstream media source ever reports positive news. the public seems to thrive of negative news, so the media runs it, increasing their ratings. which is what they are all out for anyway.


    but wait wait, I thought all main stream media is propaganda.

    why don't they report anything positive? there has to be many areas of Iraq that are very happy. the kurds in the north for example, or the majority of shiites. sunnis are the ones now under attack because saddam suppressed the shittes for 30 years.


    so where does everyone get their info from? do you suck up the "propaganda" when the mainstream media reports the atrocities that go on? they all of sudden become credible ?

    my point is that, I think and hope much more positive stuff is going on in Iraq that is unreported and its hypocritical for most to credit the main stream media when they report bad stuff, but its propaganda when/if its positive.

    Disclaimer, I have been drinking tonight :) thanks for listening to my rant.....carry on

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hV3vyRiwdeA


    so your looking for positive things coming out of a war? dont hold your breath. every war is negative and disgusting. period.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    my2hands wrote:
    so your looking for positive things coming out of a war? dont hold your breath. every war is negative and disgusting. period.

    I disagree. of course wars are bad. but there are always positives. I'm sure you would say there were "positives" that came from the horrible horrible WWII?

    besides the point, I'm not looking for positives. I stated what this thread is about.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    dolly rocker wrote:
    well you're completely wrong,,this war is a scam on our generation...we're not fighting terrorists,,,we're fighting Iran and Syria thats the main prob....my brother is over there he joined the day after sept 11th and he tells me its the Iranians who are causing the problems,,we are already technically going into another war with IRAN. Thats such a shame,,,,,, beware my friends Iran is next,, be prepared its going to be a tough next couple of years

    thats an interesting point. hope your brother comes home safe.
  • dolly rockerdolly rocker Posts: 352
    thank you ,,he will,,, he's insane hahahaha
  • flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where does everyone get their information from?

    all I hear on this board is how bad Iraq is. so much death, America is the evil occupier, millions have died.

    I have NEVER heard one positive thing about the Iraq war on TV. no mainstream media source ever reports positive news. the public seems to thrive of negative news, so the media runs it, increasing their ratings. which is what they are all out for anyway.


    but wait wait, I thought all main stream media is propaganda.

    why don't they report anything positive? there has to be many areas of Iraq that are very happy. the kurds in the north for example, or the majority of shiites. sunnis are the ones now under attack because saddam suppressed the shittes for 30 years.


    so where does everyone get their info from? do you suck up the "propaganda" when the mainstream media reports the atrocities that go on? they all of sudden become credible ?

    my point is that, I think and hope much more positive stuff is going on in Iraq that is unreported and its hypocritical for most to credit the main stream media when they report bad stuff, but its propaganda when/if its positive.

    Disclaimer, I have been drinking tonight :) thanks for listening to my rant.....carry on

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hV3vyRiwdeA

    Maybe you can report a good story a day on here to show us what a great thing is happening in Iraq. Thanks in advance.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    flywallyfly wrote:
    Maybe you can report a good story a day on here to show us what a great thing is happening in Iraq. Thanks in advance.

    I havnt been there. so I cant report anything. I can only go off what I see in the news and on the net. and I'm not looking to make this into a rosy Iraq war thread.

    I just find it hypocritical for eveyone to call the american news "propaganda" when something positive is reported and fact when its something negative.
  • edvedder3779edvedder3779 Posts: 65
    Hey JLew, there's a couple of sources that I get my news/info from, typically just news aggregators that are linked to other sites, usually foreign sources like the UK's Guardian or Asia Times Online, Uruknet.de...anyway, here ya go:

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
    http://www.antiwar.com/

    Yeah, some of the stuff on Rivero's WRH site makes me :rolleyes: but he does a good job of pulling together stories/analysis & putting it in one place for me, instead of having to keep tabs on 40 different places. Knowing your proclivity for financial/economic news, it's also interesting to see what the foreign viewpoint of all the market/economy turbulence is, as he puts up a lot of foreign financial news, too.

    I like Antiwar because one day you'll get an article from Sidney Blumenthal, the next you'll get something from Pat Buchanan. So you get to see both sides of the aisle commenting on the failings of all the folks in government, it's not just the Right taking shots at the Left or vice versa. Buchanan calls out Bush/neocons, Blumenthal calls out Pelosi/Reid.

    Anyway, thought you might be interested in them.
    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
    -The Duke
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    thanks ed. I think most know how I feel about your first link. ;) as for the second, I will check it out. but I find it hard to believe it being an unbias source.. antiwar.com??? but I guess no news source is.
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where does everyone get their information from?

    all I hear on this board is how bad Iraq is. so much death, America is the evil occupier, millions have died.

    I have NEVER heard one positive thing about the Iraq war on TV. no mainstream media source ever reports positive news. the public seems to thrive of negative news, so the media runs it, increasing their ratings. which is what they are all out for anyway.


    but wait wait, I thought all main stream media is propaganda.

    why don't they report anything positive? there has to be many areas of Iraq that are very happy. the kurds in the north for example, or the majority of shiites. sunnis are the ones now under attack because saddam suppressed the shittes for 30 years.


    so where does everyone get their info from? do you suck up the "propaganda" when the mainstream media reports the atrocities that go on? they all of sudden become credible ?

    my point is that, I think and hope much more positive stuff is going on in Iraq that is unreported and its hypocritical for most to credit the main stream media when they report bad stuff, but its propaganda when/if its positive.

    Disclaimer, I have been drinking tonight :) thanks for listening to my rant.....carry on

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hV3vyRiwdeA

    Drinking huh. Funny, i now have this vision of you dancing around to that lame youtube clip you posted. That was the lamest thing i have seen. :)

    Anyway, to try and answer your question,

    Until a little while ago i lived in Australia all my life so i can only speak from what i experienced there. There is next to nothing reported about the war in Iraq on the television stations there. Pretty much the only time you are guaranteed to see/hear anything, is when it's Father's Day or Mother's Day and Christmas and times like that, then they select random soldiers and interview them sending messages home to their loved ones and families, wishing them well. You never hear what is really going on over there and you never hear about the hundreds of thousands of people that have died.

    Just out of interest sake, are you concerned about the 'positives of the war' not being reported because you think they would outweigh the negatives and change peoples opinions on what's going on over there????

    Because they way i see it, even if there were a few positives and that's a big if, no one is gonna give a rats ass about them when you weigh it up against all the negatives.
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where does everyone get their information from?

    all I hear on this board is how bad Iraq is. so much death, America is the evil occupier, millions have died.

    I have NEVER heard one positive thing about the Iraq war on TV. no mainstream media source ever reports positive news. the public seems to thrive of negative news, so the media runs it, increasing their ratings. which is what they are all out for anyway.


    but wait wait, I thought all main stream media is propaganda.

    why don't they report anything positive? there has to be many areas of Iraq that are very happy. the kurds in the north for example, or the majority of shiites. sunnis are the ones now under attack because saddam suppressed the shittes for 30 years.


    so where does everyone get their info from? do you suck up the "propaganda" when the mainstream media reports the atrocities that go on? they all of sudden become credible ?

    my point is that, I think and hope much more positive stuff is going on in Iraq that is unreported and its hypocritical for most to credit the main stream media when they report bad stuff, but its propaganda when/if its positive.

    Disclaimer, I have been drinking tonight :) thanks for listening to my rant.....carry on

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hV3vyRiwdeA

    If they report on the war and don't show thousand upon thousands of people torn apart by explosions and bullets .. with children carrying them... fighting for breath as the life slows escapes.. of funerals and crying and more and more bombings

    then they are selling something far prettier than the Iraq war

    and you are a villian and a supporter of that scene as you continue to paint is as good

    vomit!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    If they report on the war and don't show thousand upon thousands of people torn apart by explosions and bullets .. with children carrying them... fighting for breath as the life slows escapes.. of funerals and crying and more and more bombings

    then they are selling something far prettier than the Iraq war

    and you are a villian and a supporter of that scene as you continue to paint is as good

    vomit!


    have you been to Iraq?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    Drinking huh. Funny, i now have this vision of you dancing around to that lame youtube clip you posted. That was the lamest thing i have seen. :)
    hehe I love youtube.
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    Anyway, to try and answer your question,

    Until a little while ago i lived in Australia all my life so i can only speak from what i experienced there. There is next to nothing reported about the war in Iraq on the television stations there. Pretty much the only time you are guaranteed to see/hear anything, is when it's Father's Day or Mother's Day and Christmas and times like that, then they select random soldiers and interview them sending messages home to their loved ones and families, wishing them well. You never hear what is really going on over there and you never hear about the hundreds of thousands of people that have died.

    Just out of interest sake, are you concerned about the 'positives of the war' not being reported because you think they would outweigh the negatives and change peoples opinions on what's going on over there????

    Because they way i see it, even if there were a few positives and that's a big if, no one is gonna give a rats ass about them when you weigh it up against all the negatives.

    no I'm not concerned about positives not being reported. although I do think there are some. the kurds in the north for example. my only beef is with people on this board you paint the america media as pure propaganda.

    but everyone seems to eat all the news right up when the media reports how bad things are. and for the most part all you see if negative news about it.
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Jlew,

    I think what you are interpreting as a "negative" news "bias" in the media is just simply the ground truth being covered as it unfolds.

    If there is one thing in the world the media does have a problem "spinning" in to a positive light, it is exploding US Soldiers and occupied countries falling in to turmoil.

    That being said, if you are looking for a "positive" take on the war, it can be found. Just look for news reports starting with "officials at the White House today said..." or "a source close to the administration has announced..." or any briefing or press conference that comes from a podium with a US Seal on the front of it.

    You can be pretty much guaranteed that if it is coming from Petraeus, it will probably have a peppy upbeat feel to it. Kind've like a Sgt. Peppers tune. You know?

    But again,
    i think you really may be looking for something that just isn't there.
    If there is anything positive going on in Iraq, it is likely to be something flimsy like "only 5 died today" or "there was relative calm today" or "latest statistics show that violence was down 3% over last month in Baghdad [...] while chaos in the outer provinces has been on the rise"


    Bottom line is Iraq IS a horrible situation.
    The public at large is sick of it.
    Numbers are way low. Way way low.
    Americans have, by and large, lost their faith in honest government, in this administration in particular, and in the belief that this war can be "won" any time this decade and with anything less than every penny in the treasury.

    I don't know man.
    I hear you.
    We all pick and choose the news and clips that suit our own personal views, that's just how it goes. The reason you aren't seeing positive "propaganda" in the media is because that involves taking something that can be misrepresented and "spinning" it ... as previously mentioned, death and chaos are a bit hard to "spin" ... but you can see it being done every so often.

    I don't know what to tell you about where i get my "news" from.
    I do my best to avoid it all togeather. I have been doing so since probably the start of last year.

    If i need a "refresher" in reality, i usualy just scan the front page of the paper, or flip to the least offensive news channel i can find ... usualy CNN ... although i am not going to "endorse" it.

    For me, "news" these days means digging deep and learning about history -- or conspiracy theories ... lol. I'm talking about searching for articles, videos, and books that go to the heart of US-Middle East relations ... I've been getting in to issues of constitutional law ... i've been studying up on our founding fathers, their views, and their writings ... of course I've gotten interested in economics, market theory, and monitary policy ... and i've always been interested in environmentalism and sustainable practices, though those issues have taken a back seat to the more political issues above.

    I think the real news is probably that we are all woefully under-educated on the true principals which founded this country and are all locked in this horribly modern view of America as a Capitalist Democracy ... when the reality is we were never founded upon truly capitalist principals (that is something that arose with the industrial revolution and modern marketing theory in the 20's) and we are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic, NOT a democracy. Instead of so closely following the endless mire of current events, an endless circle of more-of-the-same, lets stop looking for flashes of light in the dark of night and start looking back to the days when the sun shone bright, if we are truly seeking answers.

    ANYHOW.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where does everyone get their information from?

    all I hear on this board is how bad Iraq is. so much death, America is the evil occupier, millions have died.

    I have NEVER heard one positive thing about the Iraq war on TV. no mainstream media source ever reports positive news. the public seems to thrive of negative news, so the media runs it, increasing their ratings. which is what they are all out for anyway.


    but wait wait, I thought all main stream media is propaganda.

    why don't they report anything positive? there has to be many areas of Iraq that are very happy. the kurds in the north for example, or the majority of shiites. sunnis are the ones now under attack because saddam suppressed the shittes for 30 years.


    so where does everyone get their info from? do you suck up the "propaganda" when the mainstream media reports the atrocities that go on? they all of sudden become credible ?

    my point is that, I think and hope much more positive stuff is going on in Iraq that is unreported and its hypocritical for most to credit the main stream media when they report bad stuff, but its propaganda when/if its positive.



    I think the media is NOT credible when reporting the atrocities.
    The negative news is tamed into a five second sound bite, maybe a quick flash of an angry, machine gun carrying crowd around a coffin, but nothing that would shake anyone. The footage of American soldiers dying, coffins coming home, etc etc has been banned, remember?

    Reporting that 20 civilians died, showing wreckage and a crying family member, does not compare to showing the immediate aftermath with body parts and dead children lying around. I saw some footage of this kinda thing on CBC doc recently and nearly vomitted. It was SO far from what I was seeing on a consistent basis from most mainstream media.

    The way the media downplays this stuff, condenses it, trivializes it....THAT is what makes it propaganda. Every single time a group of civilians dies, it should be an ongoing storyline! Investigations, follow ups, interviews, etc....instead its five seconds and on to Britneys blood test results. fuck that. Garbage.


    I think the opinion that certain groups would be "happy" is mistaken. Why would any normal, compassionate Iraqi be happy about what is happening in their country? I don't really buy that the majority of them want to see "the other side" die. I think the only people that are happy are the zealots and the people profitting from it. War isn't good, man!

    Like Abu said, we're being sold a much prettier picture than the Iraq/Afghan war. And the fact that the people that are selling it (media) are about as responsible for being there as the US govt itself, it's hard not to see that....at least you admitted you were drunk.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    I think the media is NOT credible when reporting the atrocities.
    The negative news is tamed into a five second sound bite, maybe a quick flash of an angry, machine gun carrying crowd around a coffin, but nothing that would shake anyone. The footage of American soldiers dying, coffins coming home, etc etc has been banned, remember?

    Reporting that 20 civilians died, showing wreckage and a crying family member, does not compare to showing the immediate aftermath with body parts and dead children lying around. I saw some footage of this kinda thing on CBC doc recently and nearly vomitted. It was SO far from what I was seeing on a consistent basis from most mainstream media.

    The way the media downplays this stuff, condenses it, trivializes it....THAT is what makes it propaganda. Every single time a group of civilians dies, it should be an ongoing storyline! Investigations, follow ups, interviews, etc....instead its five seconds and on to Britneys blood test results. fuck that. Garbage.
    ok
    Drowned Out wrote:
    I think the opinion that certain groups would be "happy" is mistaken. Why would any normal, compassionate Iraqi be happy about what is happening in their country? I don't really buy that the majority of them want to see "the other side" die. I think the only people that are happy are the zealots and the people profitting from it. War isn't good, man!
    I dont think this is fair seeing how you have never been there.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Like Abu said, we're being sold a much prettier picture than the Iraq/Afghan war. And the fact that the people that are selling it (media) are about as responsible for being there as the US govt itself, it's hard not to see that....at least you admitted you were drunk.

    I dont think the media is selling it as a pretty picture at all. and there are still many people in this country and around the world who actually support what we are doing.
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    CSPAN is currently rebroadcasting a conference from Thursday, Military And The Media, that appears to be a panel of speakers from the Harvard -- JFK School of Government -- Public Policy Institute.

    They are addressing a lot of things that run in conjunction with this discussion.

    You may want to tune in.

    It's pretty good.
    :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    thanks driftin. I like cspan
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok

    I dont think this is fair seeing how you have never been there.



    I dont think the media is selling it as a pretty picture at all. and there are still many people in this country and around the world who actually support what we are doing.

    You're right, I've never been there...but to me it almost sounds like you are implying that there are large groups of Iraqi's that are happy to see their "comeupance" result in mass bloodshed....I don't buy that. Maybe I'm naive, but I think most people, regardless of creed, race, whatever, prefer peace to war. And it would seem that the media thinks differently as well. But maybe I'm wrong, and they're mostly all blood-thirsty, murderous extremists fighting over control of the country.

    My point was - the media is only selling an ugly enough picture for people to say, "oh my, that's horrible", but not ugly enough to enrage anyone. Not that anyone would be enraged anyway....for any longer than it took to read the words, "up next: Survivor China"

    I can't help but think that the people still supporting what is happening are remnants from the lies that took us there.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    You're right, I've never been there...but to me it almost sounds like you are implying that there are large groups of Iraqi's that are happy to see their "comeupance" result in mass bloodshed....I don't buy that.
    the kurds? or the "large" group of muslims who were held under oppression from saddam?
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Maybe I'm naive, but I think most people, regardless of creed, race, whatever, prefer peace to war.
    you are arent naive. a naive person would think otherwise.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    And it would seem that the media thinks differently as well. But maybe I'm wrong, and they're mostly all blood-thirsty, murderous extremists fighting over control of the country.

    My point was - the media is only selling an ugly enough picture for people to say, "oh my, that's horrible", but not ugly enough to enrage anyone. Not that anyone would be enraged anyway....for any longer than it took to read the words, "up next: Survivor China"

    I can't help but think that the people still supporting what is happening are remnants from the lies that took us there.

    I think the people who support whats going on there, do so because they eventually want a peaceful Iraq and freedom in a middle east country.

    sounds silly to need war to make peace, but history has proven that to be true sometimes.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the kurds? or the "large" group of muslims who were held under oppression from saddam?

    you are arent naive. a naive person would think otherwise.



    I think the people who support whats going on there, do so because they eventually want a peaceful Iraq and freedom in a middle east country.

    sounds silly to need war to make peace, but history has proven that to be true sometimes.

    you think the kurds or the mulsims repressed under Hussein want people to die to make things right? I would like to think that most kurds, shiites, sunni would prefer peaceful means and not to see the other side destroyed. Maybe the thought process IS that different...but you would think the average Iraqi just wants the violence to end.

    And I disagree that war brings peace....when has this been proven?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    you think the kurds or the mulsims repressed under Hussein want people to die to make things right? .
    in some cases, yes.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    I would like to think that most kurds, shiites, sunni would prefer peaceful means and not to see the other side destroyed.
    Maybe the thought process IS that different...but you would think the average Iraqi just wants the violence to end.
    are you kidding? I would like to think that too. but it doesnt appear to be the case.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    And I disagree that war brings peace....when has this been proven?

    WWI WWII
  • TruthmongerTruthmonger Posts: 559
    Dig it. More good news from Iraq:

    http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/259406

    Ya, war sure is great, huh ? Especially the optional ones - I really love those.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in some cases, yes.

    are you kidding? I would like to think that too. but it doesnt appear to be the case.



    WWI WWII
    Am I kidding about which point? You just agreed that most people would prefer peace, right?
    I'm not kidding. But I don't honestly know enough to be sure ((edit: without going there yourself, I dont know how anyone could get an honest feel of the REAL public 'mood' on this topic....unless you trust the media to tell you ;) )). But my guess, based on human nature, would be that these ethnic groups are not so indoctrinated as to want death to the other groups. Small,extremist percentages of each ethnicity? yes...but not the average person. And I think the media portrays it otherwise.


    And WWI and WWII....the lines drawn and results of those wars continue to be reasons for conflict to this day...they didn't bring any peace. Nothing positive came of them. At least nothing measurable, relative to the negative.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    this conversation reminded me of a doc I saw recently, so I looked it up....
    what I found is a perfect example of the way the US media censors coverage of the war.

    This is what Americans saw on ABC:
    http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8888178944756435960&q=embedded+in+baghdad&total=30&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

    This is the actual doc, as aired in parts, but in it's entirety in the UK, and on CBC in Canada:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nhGl1VbAig
    (several parts)

    ALL of the more heartbreaking footage is removed from the ABC version, and it's dumbed down into 4 minutes. The hatchet job is pretty sad. Blame time constraints or whatever if you want...but other countries were able to air the full peice (and it IS a feature of life with AMERICAN soldiers...you'd think it would be more important for americans to see it than Brits or Canucks).


    On the Guardian website, when mentioning that their photographer's doc had aired in the US, said this:
    "The network's news channel showed chunks of Smith's documentary in a longer film of its own about the conflict on Monday, prompting a flood of positive responses from the public to the broadcaster."

    What longer film are they talking about? Anyone know? The "chunks" were just intro'd by an American anchor....
    It almost sounds like Guardian is ok with the editing job....hmmm
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    have you been to Iraq?

    Have you been to Rwanda? have you been to Krakow? Have you developed positive memories there? Bet some nice things happened... should we stop focusing on the bad there...

    I am sorry I engage you - I know you prefer to pretend..without regard for facts.. after all you are American and want to feel good about yourself.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Have you been to Rwanda? have you been to Krakow? Have you developed positive memories there? Bet some nice things happened... should we stop focusing on the bad there...

    I am sorry I engage you - I know you prefer to pretend..without regard for facts.. after all you are American and want to feel good about yourself.

    don't be sorry. you haunt engaged me. all you did was avoid my question.
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    don't be sorry. you haunt engaged me. all you did was avoid my question.

    Its not really relevant where I have been.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Am I kidding about which point? You just agreed that most people would prefer peace, right?
    I'm not kidding. But I don't honestly know enough to be sure ((edit: without going there yourself, I dont know how anyone could get an honest feel of the REAL public 'mood' on this topic....unless you trust the media to tell you ;) )). But my guess, based on human nature, would be that these ethnic groups are not so indoctrinated as to want death to the other groups. Small,extremist percentages of each ethnicity? yes...but not the average person. And I think the media portrays it otherwise.


    And WWI and WWII....the lines drawn and results of those wars continue to be reasons for conflict to this day...they didn't bring any peace. Nothing positive came of them. At least nothing measurable, relative to the negative.

    look man, I hate war as much as you. I would also like to believe most people do. but as seen in Iraq thats not the case. shiites and sunnis kill each other daily.

    and as for something positive coming from WWI and WWII. I'll ask the obvious, you dont think its positive to rid the world of hilter and the nazis? in order for that to happen, war was necessary.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Its not really relevant where I have been.

    you seem to paint your own picture of exactly what is going on in Iraq. maybe you would have a different opinion if you've been there.
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