Oh and let's not gloss over the fact, that the Islam/Muslim apologists are doing exactly the same thing, as Miller is doing. Just for the other side.
They have no problem verbally attacking, in an abrasive and crude manner...the other side. But as soon as someone dishes out a little of the same towards Muslims; the Calvary comes galloping in with attacks on the poster.
Why is that? Why is it okay for the apologists? But not okay for Miller?
Actually people bring up the peace and good of muslims b/c what the terrorists do is so obviously horrible. The tendency has been to lump the word terrorist with muslim, rather then just call them terrorists. When the KKK is in the news do you hear them called Christian terrorists, no, b/c it's obvious that those people dont stand for Christianity. Same concept applies to the terrorists in the middle east. What's happening in the middle east is innocent people are being killed to get the terrosts. When this happens you turn those innocent peoples family into terrorist, it's an endless cycle. Look at the OKC bombing, it was retaliation for what happened in Waco (not the best example but you get the idea). As far as miller goes, he's just the shock jock of the board...insignifigant and begging for attention.
Muslims all over the world are trying to intimidate, bully and threaten people into never criticizing Islam/Muslims or presenting opinions or expressions of art- which implicate them in a negative manner.
That's their own fault for thinking they can shut up, the people of world, by verbal, legal or physical threats. They are to blame for their intolerance, unacceptance and narrow-minded, disrespectful approach to anyone not Muslim. Hell, they fight and kill themselves over different interpretations of Islam.
They can't shut the non-believers up.
People will continue to criticize them and illustrate their ignorance.
He won't make a distinction. That's his point and approach.
After years of watching the Islam/Muslim apologists circle the wagons and routinely defend their actions; I doubt you'll see him make any distinctions...any time soon.
so he doesn't make distinctions just because the apologists don't make distinctions? Not very wise of him... I would trust what I see, not just the countrary of others...
so he doesn't make distinctions just because the apologists don't make distinctions? Not very wise of him... I would trust what I see, not just the countrary of others...
Wise? I don't recall ever claiming he is "wise" in his approach:D
Is it wise when the apologists do it?
One thing is certain, by the responses he gets from the apologists; it's obvious they don't appreciate or like a dose of their own medicine. That much is clear.
I'll leave the judgement of what is wise or not wise, to you.
Wise? I don't recall ever claiming he is "wise" in his approach:D
Is it wise when the apologists do it?
One thing is certain, by the responses he gets from the apologists; it's obvious they don't appreciate or like a dose of their own medicine. That much is clear.
I'll leave the judgement of what is wise or not wise, to you.
I'm not an apologist, but I think that he's an idiot in not being able to distinguish
Personally I don't prescribe to any religion I do firmly believe religion to be nothing but an agent of control.
The old idea of divide and conquer - how many wars have been fought because of religion ? how many countries and regions of our world are at odds with eachother because of religion.......
Without religion our world would be a better place.
In response to those ignorant people who are quick to demonise Islam because of the actions of some people look to the actions of all those who claim a religion
Bush claims god talks to him but no one calls him a fundamentalist.
Israel believes itself to be the homeland of those who are jewish only and thats not extremism ?
It's easy to demonise that which you do not understand. I feel alot of people on this thread need a wee bit more education and then maybe their minds wouldn't be as closed as they seem /appear to be.
" You cannot throw a rope around the neck of an idea" .....Bobby Sands.
Personally I don't prescribe to any religion I do firmly believe religion to be nothing but an agent of control.
The old idea of divide and conquer - how many wars have been fought because of religion ? how many countries and regions of our world are at odds with eachother because of religion.......
Without religion our world would be a better place.
In response to those ignorant people who are quick to demonise Islam because of the actions of some people look to the actions of all those who claim a religion
Bush claims god talks to him but no one calls him a fundamentalist.
Israel believes itself to be the homeland of those who are jewish only and thats not extremism ?
It's easy to demonise that which you do not understand. I feel alot of people on this thread need a wee bit more education and then maybe their minds wouldn't be as closed as they seem /appear to be.
Then you really haven't read all the posts in this thread, or you're not absorbing the message.
The fact you think I'm defending him, is laughable.
I'm simply explaining what I believe to be his approach, an observation, if you will.
Interpret that as you wish.
um...it does seem that you are defending him...at least that's how I interpret it...anyway...I was wondering how you define "apologist"...
I happen to think both sides in the current conflict are wrong...however, I also understand the "reasons" for the actions on both sides...does that make me an "apologist"...?
Then common sense and by the same logic and train of thought, you use in your evaluation of Miller; the apologists are also idiots, correct?
I think that's he's an idiot because he makes generalizations without any discussion behind his statements.
People without critical mind are without critical mind in both the sides. However, don't confuse apologists with people discussing possible reasons behind events.
You've been able to take out the argument of the cartoons where it really didn't fit...
(I smell ban for me soon, for having started this exchange...)
I happen to think both sides in the current conflict are wrong...however, I also understand the "reasons" for the actions on both sides...does that make me an "apologist"...?
Of course not, you're from North Carolina;)
If you truely see both sides of the conflict and don't spend all of your time defending just Muslims/Islam; then you're not an apologist.
If I ever began to express my opinion and thoughts like you do I would be doing something more than crying.....may involve a g....nah I won't go there today....
Oh and let's not gloss over the fact, that the Islam/Muslim apologists are doing exactly the same thing, as Miller is doing. Just for the other side.
They have no problem verbally attacking, in an abrasive and crude manner...the other side. But as soon as someone dishes out a little of the same towards Muslims; the Calvary comes galloping in with attacks on the poster.
Why is that? Why is it okay for the apologists? But not okay for Miller?
It isn't okay for anyone to be doing that...just that Miller has been acting this way for months...and these so called apologists are not siding with one side...to the contrary the majority (key word here as it isn't all) stand neutral and since Israel is the aggressor (regardless of what started this it has gone beyond the rational level and entered into overkill range) that is the focus of the attack as their aggression will ONLY lead to destabilty in the region...just like the American Invasion of Iraq has created a more dangerous world than before the invasion...to continue with my majority talk....most will not argue that Israel as a nation does have the right to defend themselves...BUT there is a limit and currently the limit has been well exceeded (for example only three countries stand with Israel and the call for no ceasefire...would not you agree that maybe the 100+ nations are correct that this has gone beyond the limit...plus I would bet that at least 90% of that 100+ believe Israel does have a right to defend themselves but to a point)....this majority does not stand up for the rights of Muslim fundamentalist nuts as they are despicable and I guarantee if you ask them one on one they will say that.
How many times have you seen ANYONE agree with a suicide bomber here....I have never seen one...how many people do you see here saying that that loss of Lebonese life is a fair trade-off for Israel's security (or for that matter Iraqi civilian life for American safety....lol...sorry but it makes me laugh...its delusional grandeur)....I have seen some....the majority against your side believe that ISrael is only creating more hate and if you do not believe that you may want to wake-up. Bush & Co. went into Iraq to defend freedom and the mission (and war preaching) revolved around national security...do you really believe you are more safe? Because to be honest with you, where I am located the world to me is much more dangerous since America stuck its head in the Middle East and has got worse with the latest Israeli actions....and I will never back away from that point...
I have seen some....the majority against your side believe that ISrael is only creating more hate and if you do not believe that you may want to wake-up. Bush & Co. went into Iraq to defend freedom and the mission (and war preaching) revolved around national security...do you really believe you are more safe? Because to be honest with you, where I am located the world to me is much more dangerous since America stuck its head in the Middle East and has got worse with the latest Israeli actions....and I will never back away from that point...
You may be surprised to learn, that my side, is the same side you stand on.
I'd like to make the point that if you put Jew infront of all these crimes. E.g. Jewish Terrorist, Jewish Extremists, if you said anyone who follows the pharisees are jerk-offs, or if you question the history of Jews. You are labelled anti-semitic. People don't tolerate anti-semitism as we've seen several times on this board. However, it is acceptable to have prejudice towards Islam? That's a double-standard, truly hipocritical and disgusting.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'd like to make the point that if you put Jew infront of all these crimes. E.g. Jewish Terrorist, Jewish Extremists, if you said anyone who follows the pharisees are jerk-offs, or if you question the history of Jews. You are labelled anti-semitic. People don't tolerate anti-semitism as we've seen several times on this board. However, it is acceptable to have prejudice towards Islam? That's a double-standard, truly hipocritical and disgusting.
You've never seen me say anything of the sort, regarding Jews.
In my opinion they are as open for criticism, as anyone else.
That is a really terrible, and uninformed, and unthinking thing to say. Religion has to power to add meaning and beauty to people's lives, and frankly I think too many people write off religion to their own detriment, not to mention that today's world, given its political realities, requires that people start engaging with religion more seriously.
It is certainly not an uninformed thing to say.
Religion can be a wonderful thing for anyone, but i fail to see the need to define yourself as a religion. Frankly, I just consider it as a way for people to distinguish among eachother so they can put down the rest of them.
It's an outdated idea that has done irreversable harm to society.
Be as spiritual as you care to be...
If there was no one saying "Well you're a Jew! /muslim/catholic/protestant/hindu or whatever" The world would be a lot more peaceful place.
I just cannot see a single good thing about organized religion. And don't pull that church-charity crap on me because you don't need a religious label to get together and help people.
Actually people bring up the peace and good of muslims b/c what the terrorists do is so obviously horrible. The tendency has been to lump the word terrorist with muslim, rather then just call them terrorists. When the KKK is in the news do you hear them called Christian terrorists, no, b/c it's obvious that those people dont stand for Christianity. Same concept applies to the terrorists in the middle east. What's happening in the middle east is innocent people are being killed to get the terrosts. When this happens you turn those innocent peoples family into terrorist, it's an endless cycle. Look at the OKC bombing, it was retaliation for what happened in Waco (not the best example but you get the idea). As far as miller goes, he's just the shock jock of the board...insignifigant and begging for attention.
I'm sorry but your kkk analogy is flawed. Radical, fundamentalist Islam has a lot more currency in the Muslim world than the KKK has in the Christian world. The KKK can not be said to be Christian terrorists because Christianity has disowned them. Islamic terrorists, however, can, and should (if we are going to really understand their motivations) be described as Islamic, because they are probably, at this point, the most popular form of Islam in the Middle East.
You can substitute any prophet for mohammed in that statement and it would be just as accurate, which isn't very, btw. The majority of people who follow mohammed or any other spiritual leader are good people with good intentions. It's the people who twist and turn everything for their own benefit that are the jerkoffs. You're not stupid, right? So you realize how ridiculous it is to make this claim that you've made, right?
You say the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to the same sort of Islam that motivates terrorists. Why do you say this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but you state this as if it's fact when I'm not sure that it is. Perhaps you could say this about Muslims outside of the Middle East and Central Asia, but in these regions it seems like radical Islam is becoming or has already become the dominant form of Islam. If Egypt were to have a free election now it is almost certain that the Muslim Brotherhood would win. Hamas already has won in the Palestinian territories. Hezbollah is the most popular group in the Arab world. I mean it seems more and more true that in the heartland of Islam one can not talk about a majority of Muslims being moderate.
I'd like to make the point that if you put Jew infront of all these crimes. E.g. Jewish Terrorist, Jewish Extremists, if you said anyone who follows the pharisees are jerk-offs, or if you question the history of Jews. You are labelled anti-semitic. People don't tolerate anti-semitism as we've seen several times on this board. However, it is acceptable to have prejudice towards Islam? That's a double-standard, truly hipocritical and disgusting.
I'm a Jew and I wouldn't say that. There have been Jewish terrorists, and there are Jewish extremists. I wouldn't say someone is an anti-semite just for saying such a thing. That doesn't mean that there aren't anti-semites around, and more than once reading posts on threads here I have had the uncomfortable feeling that people's anti-Israel attitudes were veering dangerously close to anti-semitism.
Religion can be a wonderful thing for anyone, but i fail to see the need to define yourself as a religion. Frankly, I just consider it as a way for people to distinguish among eachother so they can put down the rest of them.
It's an outdated idea that has done irreversable harm to society.
Be as spiritual as you care to be...
If there was no one saying "Well you're a Jew! /muslim/catholic/protestant/hindu or whatever" The world would be a lot more peaceful place.
I just cannot see a single good thing about organized religion. And don't pull that church-charity crap on me because you don't need a religious label to get together and help people.
Spirituality and religion are not the same thing. You can't just replace religion with spirituality. I'm an observant Jew. I believe in the Jewish tradition and teachings. I don't think that other religions are correct, but I accept the possibility that they are, and therefore respect people of other faiths. Whatever, what I'm trying to say is that religion is only a problem when it is misused, as is true with most things.
Spirituality and religion are not the same thing. You can't just replace religion with spirituality. I'm an observant Jew. I believe in the Jewish tradition and teachings. I don't think that other religions are correct, but I accept the possibility that they are, and therefore respect people of other faiths. Whatever, what I'm trying to say is that religion is only a problem when it is misused, as is true with most things.
I agree.
I think when "religion" is working at it's best, it's non-denominational.
The closer a 'spirituality' gets to cult status the closer to "religion" it is.
But that's just me.
Oddly enough, Jewish people tend to be more open to other beliefs,.. things that aren't of the Jewish faith. (at least in America this seems to be true).
I'm sorry but your kkk analogy is flawed. Radical, fundamentalist Islam has a lot more currency in the Muslim world than the KKK has in the Christian world. The KKK can not be said to be Christian terrorists because Christianity has disowned them. Islamic terrorists, however, can, and should (if we are going to really understand their motivations) be described as Islamic, because they are probably, at this point, the most popular form of Islam in the Middle East.
The KKK also hates Jews, i believe that is religous in context.
Muslims all over the world are trying to intimidate, bully and threaten people into never criticizing Islam/Muslims or presenting opinions or expressions of art- which implicate them in a negative manner.
That's their own fault for thinking they can shut up, the people of world, by verbal, legal or physical threats. They are to blame for their intolerance, unacceptance and narrow-minded, disrespectful approach to anyone not Muslim. Hell, they fight and kill themselves over different interpretations of Islam.
They can't shut the non-believers up.
People will continue to criticize them and illustrate their ignorance.
Dude, it just seems that you're biased....you should have just said so in the first place.....btw how many muslims do you know personally? How many tried to shut you up? Speaking of intimidate and bully...let's see the US went to iraq and called it "Shock and Aw" w/ weapons 100x more advanced than iraq.....Israel is going into Lebanon, again, w/ superior technology and weapons, both result in thousands of innocent dead civilians...and you talk about bullies? Open your eyes..
Dude, it just seems that you're biased....you should have just said so in the first place.....btw how many muslims do you know personally? How many tried to shut you up? Speaking of intimidate and bully...let's see the US went to iraq and called it "Shock and Aw" w/ weapons 100x more advanced than iraq.....Israel is going into Lebanon, again, w/ superior technology and weapons, both result in thousands of innocent dead civilians...and you talk about bullies? Open your eyes..
lol, I talk to Muslims every day. I said one of the most offensive things I could probably say. I said religion is a fairy tale. Anyway, they still smile and talk to me. I probably shouldn't have said that though.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Dude, it just seems that you're biased....you should have just said so in the first place.....btw how many muslims do you know personally? How many tried to shut you up? Speaking of intimidate and bully...let's see the US went to iraq and called it "Shock and Aw" w/ weapons 100x more advanced than iraq.....Israel is going into Lebanon, again, w/ superior technology and weapons, both result in thousands of innocent dead civilians...and you talk about bullies? Open your eyes..
My eyes are opened and islamic extremism is the problem. WHo blew up the world trade center? The Cole Bombing? Who killed a danish writer for talking badly about the prophet mohammed? Who protested and set fire in the streets over a cartton?
Comments
They have no problem verbally attacking, in an abrasive and crude manner...the other side. But as soon as someone dishes out a little of the same towards Muslims; the Calvary comes galloping in with attacks on the poster.
Why is that? Why is it okay for the apologists? But not okay for Miller?
Muslims all over the world are trying to intimidate, bully and threaten people into never criticizing Islam/Muslims or presenting opinions or expressions of art- which implicate them in a negative manner.
That's their own fault for thinking they can shut up, the people of world, by verbal, legal or physical threats. They are to blame for their intolerance, unacceptance and narrow-minded, disrespectful approach to anyone not Muslim. Hell, they fight and kill themselves over different interpretations of Islam.
They can't shut the non-believers up.
People will continue to criticize them and illustrate their ignorance.
The fact you think I'm defending him, is laughable.
I'm simply explaining what I believe to be his approach, an observation, if you will.
Interpret that as you wish.
www.amnesty.org.uk
Wise? I don't recall ever claiming he is "wise" in his approach:D
Is it wise when the apologists do it?
One thing is certain, by the responses he gets from the apologists; it's obvious they don't appreciate or like a dose of their own medicine. That much is clear.
I'll leave the judgement of what is wise or not wise, to you.
www.amnesty.org.uk
Then common sense and by the same logic and train of thought, you use in your evaluation of Miller; the apologists are also idiots, correct?
The old idea of divide and conquer - how many wars have been fought because of religion ? how many countries and regions of our world are at odds with eachother because of religion.......
Without religion our world would be a better place.
In response to those ignorant people who are quick to demonise Islam because of the actions of some people look to the actions of all those who claim a religion
Bush claims god talks to him but no one calls him a fundamentalist.
Israel believes itself to be the homeland of those who are jewish only and thats not extremism ?
It's easy to demonise that which you do not understand. I feel alot of people on this thread need a wee bit more education and then maybe their minds wouldn't be as closed as they seem /appear to be.
Then you really haven't read all the posts in this thread, or you're not absorbing the message.
um...it does seem that you are defending him...at least that's how I interpret it...anyway...I was wondering how you define "apologist"...
I happen to think both sides in the current conflict are wrong...however, I also understand the "reasons" for the actions on both sides...does that make me an "apologist"...?
People without critical mind are without critical mind in both the sides. However, don't confuse apologists with people discussing possible reasons behind events.
You've been able to take out the argument of the cartoons where it really didn't fit...
(I smell ban for me soon, for having started this exchange...)
www.amnesty.org.uk
Oh well. Interpret as you wish. From my point of view, it feels clear what I am doing.
Of course not, you're from North Carolina;)
If you truely see both sides of the conflict and don't spend all of your time defending just Muslims/Islam; then you're not an apologist.
So where does Buddha rate on the cool scale of religious icons?
If I ever began to express my opinion and thoughts like you do I would be doing something more than crying.....may involve a g....nah I won't go there today....
It isn't okay for anyone to be doing that...just that Miller has been acting this way for months...and these so called apologists are not siding with one side...to the contrary the majority (key word here as it isn't all) stand neutral and since Israel is the aggressor (regardless of what started this it has gone beyond the rational level and entered into overkill range) that is the focus of the attack as their aggression will ONLY lead to destabilty in the region...just like the American Invasion of Iraq has created a more dangerous world than before the invasion...to continue with my majority talk....most will not argue that Israel as a nation does have the right to defend themselves...BUT there is a limit and currently the limit has been well exceeded (for example only three countries stand with Israel and the call for no ceasefire...would not you agree that maybe the 100+ nations are correct that this has gone beyond the limit...plus I would bet that at least 90% of that 100+ believe Israel does have a right to defend themselves but to a point)....this majority does not stand up for the rights of Muslim fundamentalist nuts as they are despicable and I guarantee if you ask them one on one they will say that.
How many times have you seen ANYONE agree with a suicide bomber here....I have never seen one...how many people do you see here saying that that loss of Lebonese life is a fair trade-off for Israel's security (or for that matter Iraqi civilian life for American safety....lol...sorry but it makes me laugh...its delusional grandeur)....I have seen some....the majority against your side believe that ISrael is only creating more hate and if you do not believe that you may want to wake-up. Bush & Co. went into Iraq to defend freedom and the mission (and war preaching) revolved around national security...do you really believe you are more safe? Because to be honest with you, where I am located the world to me is much more dangerous since America stuck its head in the Middle East and has got worse with the latest Israeli actions....and I will never back away from that point...
You may be surprised to learn, that my side, is the same side you stand on.
You've never seen me say anything of the sort, regarding Jews.
In my opinion they are as open for criticism, as anyone else.
Religion can be a wonderful thing for anyone, but i fail to see the need to define yourself as a religion. Frankly, I just consider it as a way for people to distinguish among eachother so they can put down the rest of them.
It's an outdated idea that has done irreversable harm to society.
Be as spiritual as you care to be...
If there was no one saying "Well you're a Jew! /muslim/catholic/protestant/hindu or whatever" The world would be a lot more peaceful place.
I just cannot see a single good thing about organized religion. And don't pull that church-charity crap on me because you don't need a religious label to get together and help people.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
I'm sorry but your kkk analogy is flawed. Radical, fundamentalist Islam has a lot more currency in the Muslim world than the KKK has in the Christian world. The KKK can not be said to be Christian terrorists because Christianity has disowned them. Islamic terrorists, however, can, and should (if we are going to really understand their motivations) be described as Islamic, because they are probably, at this point, the most popular form of Islam in the Middle East.
You say the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to the same sort of Islam that motivates terrorists. Why do you say this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but you state this as if it's fact when I'm not sure that it is. Perhaps you could say this about Muslims outside of the Middle East and Central Asia, but in these regions it seems like radical Islam is becoming or has already become the dominant form of Islam. If Egypt were to have a free election now it is almost certain that the Muslim Brotherhood would win. Hamas already has won in the Palestinian territories. Hezbollah is the most popular group in the Arab world. I mean it seems more and more true that in the heartland of Islam one can not talk about a majority of Muslims being moderate.
I'm a Jew and I wouldn't say that. There have been Jewish terrorists, and there are Jewish extremists. I wouldn't say someone is an anti-semite just for saying such a thing. That doesn't mean that there aren't anti-semites around, and more than once reading posts on threads here I have had the uncomfortable feeling that people's anti-Israel attitudes were veering dangerously close to anti-semitism.
Spirituality and religion are not the same thing. You can't just replace religion with spirituality. I'm an observant Jew. I believe in the Jewish tradition and teachings. I don't think that other religions are correct, but I accept the possibility that they are, and therefore respect people of other faiths. Whatever, what I'm trying to say is that religion is only a problem when it is misused, as is true with most things.
www.amnesty.org.uk
I think when "religion" is working at it's best, it's non-denominational.
The closer a 'spirituality' gets to cult status the closer to "religion" it is.
But that's just me.
Oddly enough, Jewish people tend to be more open to other beliefs,.. things that aren't of the Jewish faith. (at least in America this seems to be true).
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
The KKK also hates Jews, i believe that is religous in context.
Dude, it just seems that you're biased....you should have just said so in the first place.....btw how many muslims do you know personally? How many tried to shut you up? Speaking of intimidate and bully...let's see the US went to iraq and called it "Shock and Aw" w/ weapons 100x more advanced than iraq.....Israel is going into Lebanon, again, w/ superior technology and weapons, both result in thousands of innocent dead civilians...and you talk about bullies? Open your eyes..
lol, I talk to Muslims every day. I said one of the most offensive things I could probably say. I said religion is a fairy tale. Anyway, they still smile and talk to me. I probably shouldn't have said that though.
My eyes are opened and islamic extremism is the problem. WHo blew up the world trade center? The Cole Bombing? Who killed a danish writer for talking badly about the prophet mohammed? Who protested and set fire in the streets over a cartton?
oh yes but christians are the problem...lol