Gaza blockade "An abomination"

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Comments

  • Open
    Open Posts: 792
    NYbenben wrote:
    i am far from the problem and can look at myself in the mirror just fine!
    but thanks for the advice...

    Yeah im sure that's what the suicide bombers think as well; you just have your army do the dirty work.
  • Jackieboy
    Jackieboy Posts: 78
    NYbenben wrote:
    Have you spent any time in Gaza? these pictures are disturbing ...no doubt.. but what are they from? why dont you show photos of after a suicide bombing that they pull of in israel where israelis are covered in blood and scraping body parts off buildings and cars to that they can bury the bodies?? i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident... who says it was caused by israelis?

    hm, might be because Israel is the aggressor in the conflict. I don't know about your newssources but that IS pretty much everydaylife in Gaza. I'll recite one of Swedens biggest newspapers Dagens Nyheter (the numbers mostly come from their correspondents or Reuters):

    My translation,
    2008-02-29

    Israeli aircraft have killed at least 32 palestinians in Gaza, among them a couple of children. Most of them where killed since Hamas killed an israelian student through border-crossing rocket-fire last wednesday. The student was the first civil israeli in 9 months to die from such an attack.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=747698
    (the last piece of the article)

    2008-03-02

    -Ninety percent of the dead and hurt are civilians from the same families since they were at home. It seems like todays missiles were mostly directed towards civilian neighbourhoods in Jaybaliya, explains doctor Muhammed before he hurries away
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=747919
    The body count is up to 63 according to the correspondent.

    2008-03-07 An arab kills 8 and wounds 40 in a jewish school

    -This is a terrible shock, unfathomable tragedy. It's been four years since a terroristattack like this took place in Jerusalem and nobody could've imagined it would take place again, says Tuli a twentyyearold student in white shirt and black kippah.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=749601

    Hm, wonder if it could be related to the earlier news......

    yes it is.

    2008-03-07
    Avenging 130 killed palestinians in Gaza, that was the motive for the murder on eight jewish teenagers in a religious school in Jerusalem.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=749821


    2008-03-17
    Seventeen palestinians were killed in israelian raids in Gaza this wednesday. At least eleven of them were according to Reuters, civlians.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=761622

    2008-04-20
    Israelian soldiers killed five and hurt two palestinians in new raids in Gaza.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=762581

    2008-04-28
    Four children and their mother and another three palestinians were killed in israelian attacks in Gaza early this monday.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=765008

    Now ask again why we don't post photos on israeli casualties! The israeli body count is five leagues below the palestinian. This IS the everydaylife of gaza. Face it!
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    NYbenben wrote:
    Im a racist??... that is the first time i have EVER been called that...

    If you hang around here and try to defend Israel, it'll happen again.
    :)
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Open wrote:
    Then you are the problem...look in the mirror.

    He's part of the problem because he's an Isreali? Hey, I thought he was the racist.
  • Clarice
    Clarice Posts: 256
    reborncareerist wrote:
    He's part of the problem because he's an Isreali? Hey, I thought he was the racist.

    I think this is not one discussion about isreali people but about the state of Israel and the policy that they are doing. When someone talk about the dangerous Bush´s government not is talking about the american people necessarily.
  • Open
    Open Posts: 792
    reborncareerist wrote:
    He's part of the problem because he's an Isreali? Hey, I thought he was the racist.

    No ... man any hint of negativity and immediately the racisim claims come out; standard quo. I dont give a fuck where anyone is from or their faith. It's actions and in this case statements that im commenting on.


    Originally Posted by NYbenben
    something i am VERY proud of... sorry...im just unsympathetic to their cause

    That's why he is part of the problem; its the selfish and close minded few on both sides that stand in the way of progress.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Open wrote:
    No ... man any hint of negativity and immediately the racisim claims come out; standard quo. I dont give a fuck where anyone is from or their faith. It's actions and in this case statements that im commenting on.


    Originally Posted by NYbenben
    something i am VERY proud of... sorry...im just unsympathetic to their cause

    That's why he is part of the problem; its the selfish and close minded few on both sides that stand in the way of progress.

    One can be proud of one's heritage, and still be a humanitarian. I am not commenting on NYbenben's own view ... Just stating that pride is NOT the same thing as "problematic". Sure, jingoism and mindless nationalism can create all kinds of problems ... Maybe it was the "unsympathetic" part you were focused on.
  • Open
    Open Posts: 792
    reborncareerist wrote:
    One can be proud of one's heritage, and still be a humanitarian. I am not commenting on NYbenben's own view ... Just stating that pride is NOT the same thing as "problematic". Sure, jingoism and mindless nationalism can create all kinds of problems ... Maybe it was the "unsympathetic" part you were focused on.


    It was the unsympathetic part that i was focused on; it's the unsympathetic on both sides that allow all the other shit to go on.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    this is why the palestinians will never have their rights restored... cause of people like reborn and nyben...
  • canadajammer
    canadajammer Posts: 263
    _FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:
    this is why the palestinians will never have their rights restored... cause of people like reborn and nyben...


    No, its mostly because of people like Arafat and the Hamas government.

    They'll get all the rights in the world (that most deserve), once they get some respectable leadership.



    It's amazing how much worse living situations have gotten in Gaza since the Hamas take over after the civil conflict with Fatah...
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    I suppose another question is will Israel recognise the Palestinians right to exist?

    Ultimately I'm thinking probably as willingly as they would swallow battery acid.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Colorsblending9 wrote:
    No, its mostly because of people like Arafat and the Hamas government.

    They'll get all the rights in the world (that most deserve), once they get some respectable leadership.



    It's amazing how much worse living situations have gotten in Gaza since the Hamas take over after the civil conflict with Fatah...
    Has nothing to do with Hamas and everything to do with Israel. See FAIR or any independant report on the situation.. The violence is fairly one-sided
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    reborncareerist wrote:
    If you hang around here and try to defend Israel, it'll happen again.
    :)

    He's not defending Israel. He's defending the Illegal occupation. Still, nice try.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    NYbenben wrote:
    i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there.

    To show you the extreme bias in your thought process:
    you deny that these photos are evidence of "every day life" in Gaza.
    You say, it is just "an incident".

    So, these photos don't evidence every day life in gaza, but what?
    You bring up the few and far between suicide bombings in Israel.
    So those do evidence everyday life in Israel?
    Ok. Sure.
    The statistics show you wrong, though.
    The killings in Gaza are dozens of times more representative of "daily life" in gaza, than are the infrequent suicide bombings in Israel.
    Fact.
    NYbenben wrote:
    who says it was caused by israelis?
    Wow.
    And talk about fucked up!
    Dude, you are a denier.
    Who the fuck do you think did that?
    The blue bunny?
    Papa smurf?

    Heres a great thought for you, which is likely to be partialy true:
    how many of the "suicide" bombings have ANYthing to do with Palestinians?

    Show me pictuers of a palestinian suicide bomber's body.
    What proof do you have?
    How do we know the bomb wasn't just planted under a vendors cart by the oppressive Israeli government?

    Seriously.
    You want inflammatory remarks?

    There you go.
    :cool:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    reborncareerist wrote:
    One can be proud of one's heritage, and still be a humanitarian. I am not commenting on NYbenben's own view ... Just stating that pride is NOT the same thing as "problematic". Sure, jingoism and mindless nationalism can create all kinds of problems ... Maybe it was the "unsympathetic" part you were focused on.

    What does heritage have to do with being 'proud' of the illegal occupation and the imprisonment and starvation of 1.3 million people? You think this qualifies him as a humanitarian?
    Right, o.k. I'm just gonna reach for my Orwell now.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    How do we know the bomb wasn't just planted under a vendors cart by the oppressive Israeli government?

    That shit has happened a lot more than people realize.

    I'd put some cash on it for sure.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    What does heritage have to do with being 'proud' of the illegal occupation and the imprisonment and starvation of 1.3 million people? You think this qualifies him as a humanitarian?
    Right, o.k. I'm just gonna reach for my Orwell now.

    If you weren't thinking so much about Orwell and being witty/melodramatic, you'd have realized that I did not call him a humanitarian, at all.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    _FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:
    this is why the palestinians will never have their rights restored... cause of people like reborn and nyben...

    Dude, go get laid or something. Truly. There are better uses of your time than singling me out.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    reborncareerist wrote:
    One can be proud of one's heritage, and still be a humanitarian.

    I am very proud of my jewish heritage.
    My grandmother and grandfather both lost a great many of their respective families to the holocaust, yet those that remained not only persevered as a people and a faith, but they also started anew and prospered.

    That being said,
    while i can not condone the actions of the palestinians, i am certainly empathetic to their plight.

    Further, i condemn the longstanding agressions of the Israeli government in full. Their failure to seek a meaningful and agreeable peace with, and consideration toward the inequities of land ownership of, the palestinian people is despicable.

    AND FYI, FOR THOSE THAT DON'T GET IT:
    The deliberate use of excessive force by the Israeli occupying regime is just as easily defined as TERRORISM as the actions of the Palestinians.

    1. Violence
    2. Psychological Impact, or Fear
    3. Perpetrated for a Political Goal
    4. Deliberate Targeting of Non-Combatants
    5. Unlawfulness or Illegitimacy

    The only criteria litsed on wikipedia not met is "disguise".
    The shelling of civilian populations in palestinian areas, the kicking down of doors and execution of all inside, and the firing upon masses from tanks ... those actions meet all 5 other critera for terrorism.

    They are violent acts, done for political reasons, deliberately targeting civilians in order to impact fear on the Palestinians, and the actions are illegal and condemned under international law.

    :rolleyes:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    I am very proud of my jewish heritage.
    My grandmother and grandfather both lost a great many of their respective families to the holocaust, yet those that remained not only persevered as a people and a faith, but they also started anew and prospered.

    That being said,
    while i can not condone the actions of the palestinians, i am certainly empathetic to their plight.

    Further, i condemn the longstanding agressions of the Israeli government in full. Their failure to seek a meaningful and agreeable peace with, and consideration toward the inequities of land ownership of, the palestinian people is despicable.

    AND FYI, FOR THOSE THAT DON'T GET IT:
    The deliberate use of excessive force by the Israeli occupying regime is just as easily defined as TERRORISM as the actions of the Palestinians.

    1. Violence
    2. Psychological Impact, or Fear
    3. Perpetrated for a Political Goal
    4. Deliberate Targeting of Non-Combatants
    5. Unlawfulness or Illegitimacy

    The only criteria litsed on wikipedia not met is "disguise".
    The shelling of civilian populations in palestinian areas, the kicking down of doors and execution of all inside, and the firing upon masses from tanks ... those actions meet all 5 other critera for terrorism.

    They are violent acts, done for political reasons, deliberately targeting civilians in order to impact fear on the Palestinians, and the actions are illegal and condemned under international law.

    :rolleyes:

    The whole concept of international law is a bit of a joke, given how often the term gets misused ... Its as much of a buzzword as "terrorism". International law my ass. Torture is still used/condoned by the governments of well over 100 nations, including the U.S., yet we're going to take Israel to task over violations of "international law"?

    That being said (sorry, I HATE that rationale with a passion!), I can agree with much of what you wrote (even though I personally contribute to the Palestinian's plight, if you believe FiveAgainstOne ...)

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