Gaza blockade "An abomination"

ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
edited June 2008 in A Moving Train
Tutu: Gaza blockade abomination

Thursday, 29 May 2008 11:27 UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7425082.stm
'Nobel peace laureate Desmond Tutu has called Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip an "abomination".

He strongly condemned what he called international "silence and complicity" on the blockade, which he compared to the actions of Burma's leaders.


Speaking at the end of a two day mission to the area, the former archbishop said the humanitarian situation there could not be justified.

Earlier, 60 Palestinians were detained in an Israeli raid on northern Gaza.

Residents in the Beit Hanoun area were summoned to a local square by Israeli troops with loudhailers before dozens were taken away, witnesses said.

Mr Tutu was in Gaza on a United Nations fact-finding mission into the killing of 19 Palestinians by Israeli shellfire in November 2006.

The former archbishop of Cape Town said the international community's "silence and complicity, especially on the situation in Gaza, shames us all".

Mr Tutu said conflicts were resolved through talking to enemies not friends.

He said his meeting with the deposed prime minister, Ismail Haniya, was an opportunity to tell the Hamas leader the firing of rockets into Israel was also a violation of human rights.

During his two-day visit, Mr Tutu met relatives of 19 civilians killed in the Israeli shelling of two houses in Beit Hanoun and is due to report his findings to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva.

He condemned the incident as a "massacre".

Israel says the Beit Hanoun deaths in November 2006 were a mistake during action to target areas used by Palestinian militants.

The Israeli military confirmed its pre-dawn incursion into Gaza on Thursday and said about 60 "wanted Palestinians" were being interrogated.

Armoured military bulldozers destroyed farmland during the incursion, witnesses told AFP news agency.

Israeli forces launch frequent attacks into Gaza which they say are aimed at combating Palestinian militants who fire rockets into Israel.'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    massacare and abomination is what is happening in Darfur.
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    NYbenben wrote:
    massacare and abomination is what is happening in Darfur.

    Darfur is not mentioned in that article...Im sure there is a thread on it, comment there.

    The lack of coverage on this stateside is amazing.
  • ClariceClarice Posts: 256
    If someone had doubts about Gaza, this photos help to remember...
  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    Have you spent any time in Gaza? these pictures are disturbing ...no doubt.. but what are they from? why dont you show photos of after a suicide bombing that they pull of in israel where israelis are covered in blood and scraping body parts off buildings and cars to that they can bury the bodies?? i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident... who says it was caused by israelis?
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NYbenben wrote:
    Have you spent any time in Gaza?

    No. So obviously my reading of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and U.N reports is not relevant, right?
    NYbenben wrote:
    i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident... who says it was caused by israelis?

    You don't believe that they show everyday life there? Really? Why?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NYbenben wrote:
    Have you spent any time in Gaza? these pictures are disturbing ...no doubt.. but what are they from? why dont you show photos of after a suicide bombing that they pull of in israel where israelis are covered in blood and scraping body parts off buildings and cars to that they can bury the bodies?? i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident...

    http://www.oxfam.org.uk/applications/blogs/pressoffice/2008/03/gaza_humanitarian_situation_wo.html
    'The humanitarian situation in Gaza is worse now than it's been at any time since the beginning of the Israeli occupation in 1967, according to a new report published today (6 March) by a coalition of leading humanitarian and human rights organisations.

    Unemployment has soared and 80% of people in Gaza are now dependent on food aid compared to 63% in 2006. Water and sewage infrastructure is on the point of total collapse. Unless the blockade ends now, it will be impossible to pull Gaza back from the brink of this disaster and any hopes for peace in the region will be dashed."

    According to the report (list of key statistics in notes below), the blockade of Gaza has dramatically worsened levels of poverty and unemployment and has led to deterioration in education and health services. Over 1.1 million people are now dependent on food aid and of 110,000 workers previously employed in the private sector, 75,000 workers have now lost their jobs.'


    UN official says Israel's blockade of Gaza is feeding a 'growing sense of injustice' among its population
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/12/israelandthepalestinians.unitednations
    Rory McCarthy in Gaza City guardian.co.uk, Monday May 12 2008
    Gaza's population has been reduced to a "subhuman existence" where basic humanitarian needs are going unmet in the face of rapidly deteriorating conditions, according to a senior UN official.

    An Israeli economic blockade on the Gaza Strip, home to 1.5 million Palestinians, has produced shortages of fuel and basic supplies and has closed most private businesses and pushed up poverty rates.

    John Ging, director of operations in Gaza for the UN Refugee and Works Agency, which supports Palestinian refugees, said the crisis and continuing toll of civilian deaths were feeding a "growing sense of injustice" among Gaza's population.'

    http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/01/04/despair_poverty_rise_in_palestinian_area/5010/
    January 04, 2008
    'The head of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency has made an emotional appeal for $238 million in emergency assistance for Palestinians in 2008 to ease the chronic unemployment, malnutrition and poverty that is gripping the occupied territories.

    "The situation on the ground has deteriorated in recent months. From my offices in Gaza City I have witnessed first hand the pace and the extent of this decline," said Karen Koning AbuZayd, commissioner-general of UNWRA, which looks after Palestinian Refugees. "In Gaza, the entire population -- 1.5 million persons, including 1 million refugees -- are living under conditions of feudal siege," she added, "with borders closed to all but humanitarian goods and major reductions in the flow of electricity and fuel."


    The primary cause for the deteriorating situation is a crippling international embargo, compounded by an Israeli siege on the Gaza strip. The embargo followed the victory of Hamas in democratic legislative elections that were supervised by international observers and monitors including former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, in January 2006...'



    NYbenben wrote:
    who says it was caused by israelis?

    http://www.nogw.com/israeliatrocities.html
  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    oh... now i get it... so the stock photos are from Amnesty International....dude, much like on this board...you cant believe everything you read... there is more than one side to every story. and NO that is not what daily life is like in Gaza. the pictures you posted are obviously of the aftermath of a particular "incident"... they DONT portray every day life. again, i can look up photos of an israeli bombing scene and post them, would you think that it would represent every day life? cmon dude....
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NYbenben wrote:
    oh... now i get it... so the stock photos are from Amnesty International....dude, much like on this board...you cant believe everything you read... there is more than one side to every story. and NO that is not what daily life is like in Gaza. the pictures you posted are obviously of the aftermath of a particular "incident"... they DONT portray every day life. again, i can look up photos of an israeli bombing scene and post them, would you think that it would represent every day life? cmon dude....

    O.k. Then please explain to me - and post pictures too If you like - what life in Gaza is actually like. Thanks.
  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    I have family that lives in Israel... i have been there... it is a BEAUTIFUL country... the palaestinians have an opportunity to live together with them... they choose not to. The fact that palestinians dont want israel to exist or continue to attack Israel, will cause them to be blocked off... too fuckin bad for them... sorry to sound harsh about it and perhaps a bit primative about it, but it is the fact... Israel is a thriving country filled with great technology, Agriculture, arts, medicine... all good stuff... what do the palestinians have? NOTHING... cause that is they way they want it... they want it their way or no way... so you know what... NO WAY... let them live in sqalor... they can build their own roads, sewers and whatnot, and let them live in their own space... whatever that space may be.
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NYbenben wrote:
    and NO that is not what daily life is like in Gaza.

    Gaza 2008
    http://tinyrevolution.com/mt/mt-static/images/rafah_gaza.jpg


    http://www.freegaza.com/images/gaza-1.jpg
    'GAZA CITY - Gaza hospitals are facing a crisis because of a western and Israeli economic boycott, and an Israeli military offensive. The United Nations has warned of an increasingly desperate humanitarian situation.'

    17 May 2008

    http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article418
    Palestinian Civilian Killed by Israeli Settler in Ramallah Governorate
    Al Haq




    Tuesday May 20, 2008

    http://www.ccun.org/News/2008/May/21%20n/Palestinian%20Killed,%20Seven%20Kidnapped%20on%20Wednesday,%205%20Killed%20on%20Tuesday%20by%20Israeli%20Occupation%20Forces.htm
    Five Palestinians, including one child, killed in Gaza on Tuesday


    Palestinian sources in the Gaza Strip reported that five Palestinians, including one child, were killed in separate Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday.


    Medical sources reported that a child and a farmer were killed and two other Palestinians were wounded when the army shelled several areas, including houses and farmlands, in the northern and central parts of the Gaza Strip.

    The Palestinian news agency, WAFA, identified the child as Majd Ziad Abu Okal, 13, from Beit Lahia. The killed farmer was identified as Hamdi Al-Dahdouh, 32, from Juhr Al-Deek in the central Gaza Strip; his body was severely mutilated.

    Also on Wednesday, one fighter was killed and five Palestinian were wounded in an Israeli shelling that targeted a group of fighters in Al-Zaitoun neighborhood, south of Gaza City.

    The fighter was identified as Mohammad Khamees Odah, 28, member of the Al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas movement. Five residents were injured in the shelling. On Tuesday evening, resident Zayid Abu Wadi, 23, died of wounds sustained during the shelling which at the time led to the death of Odah, medical sources reported.

    A fifth resident, identified as Ali Al-Dahdouh, 32, was killed when the army shot him in his head as he was driving his car in Juhr Al-Deek area.

    The Israeli army claimed that the shelling targeted fighters who fired homemade shells into adjacent Israeli areas.

    Also on Tuesday, the army invaded Al-Maghazi refugee camp, in the central Gaza Strip, and bulldozed farmlands in the area.'



    Wednesday May 21

    Soldiers abuse a Palestinian youth for three hours

    http://www.ccun.org/News/2008/May/21%20n/Palestinian%20Killed,%20Seven%20Kidnapped%20on%20Wednesday,%205%20Killed%20on%20Tuesday%20by%20Israeli%20Occupation%20Forces.htm
    'Palestinian sources in Hebron, in the southern part of the West Bank, reported on Tuesday that Israeli occupation soldiers abused and tortured for three hours a Palestinian youth as he was working in a hothouse.

    The sources added that as Abdul-Rahman Al-Arameen, 19, from Sa’ir town, near Hebron, was working in a hothouse when he was attacked by soldiers, who without any cause of provocation, attacked him and started beating him.

    One of the soldiers grabbed Al-Arameen from his right leg and dragged him for a long distance while other soldiers were beating and kicking him.

    After three hours of abuse and humiliation, soldiers left the area leaving the youth soaking in his own blood.

    Monqedh Abu Roomy, head of the Media Office of Asrana (Our Detainees) Center, slammed the attack and voiced an appeal to international and human rights groups to intervene and stop the ongoing Israeli violations against the Palestinian people.'



    22nd May 2008

    Palestinian demonstrator killed in IDF attack in Gaza
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3546651,00.html
    Israel News


    A Palestinian was killed and 18 others were injured Thursday after Israel Defense Forces soldiers opened fire at protestors taking part in a procession organized by Hamas, Palestinian sources in the Gaza Strip reported.




    23 May 2008

    http://www.ochaopt.org/?module=displaysection&section_id=104&format=html
    Protection of Civilians Weekly Report | 7 – 13 May 2008
    'The IDF killed eleven Palestinians, including a woman and two children, in the Gaza Strip. A total of 42 rockets and 31 mortars were fired by Palestinian militants at Israel, resulting in the death of two Israelis. The IDF closed Enav and Beit Iba checkpoints for 12 hours to facilitate the movement of Israeli settlers to the evacuated settlements of Khomesh and Sanur.



    May 28, 2008

    Two Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

    Maan News
    http://imeu.net/news/article008855.shtml
    'Israeli tanks and warplanes killed two Palestinians and injured five during an incursion in the Rafah area of the southern Gaza Strip on Wednesday, various Palestinian sources said. One Israeli soldier was also injured...

    Israeli tanks invaded the Gaza Strip near the Sufa crossing at dawn on Wednesday. Israeli troops are conducting house to house searches. Residents say the area endures Israeli incursions almost daily.'
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NYbenben wrote:
    the palaestinians have an opportunity to live together with them... they choose not to.

    I think you're confused. Who is it that's currently engaged in an illegal occupation and in breach of over 60 U.N resolutions? The Palestinians, including Hamas, support the international consensus - excluding the U.S and Israel - for a two-state solution on the internationally recognized 1967 borders.

    NYbenben wrote:
    The fact that palestinians dont want israel to exist or continue to attack Israel, will cause them to be blocked off....

    This is just nonsense, and merely an excuse for Israel to continue the illegal occupation and other war crimes. Israel could end the violence tomorrow by abiding by international law and withdrawing to the 1967 borders. This it refuses to do.

    NYbenben wrote:
    too fuckin bad for them... sorry to sound harsh about it and perhaps a bit primative about it, but it is the fact... Israel is a thriving country filled with great technology, Agriculture, arts, medicine... all good stuff... what do the palestinians have? NOTHING... cause that is they way they want it... they want it their way or no way... so you know what... NO WAY... let them live in sqalor... they can build their own roads, sewers and whatnot, and let them live in their own space... whatever that space may be.

    O.k. I think I understand this particular brand of racism.

    And as far as letting '..them live in their own space' goes, that's not a bad idea. It's a shame that Israel refuses to allow them to live in their own space.
  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    Im a racist??... that is the first time i have EVER been called that...
    whatever dude...Have a nice evening... Israel will NEVER retreat to the 67 borders...wont happen...
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NYbenben wrote:
    Israel will NEVER retreat to the 67 borders...wont happen...

    And that's something you're proud of is it?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I truly believe that the reason the crimes against humanity in the occupied territories are allowed to continue is because so much of the American population is so completely ignorant of what their government is sponsoring.
    As soon as the facts are laid out you get Americans saying things like..

    "But that's not really what conditions are like there.."

    "How do you know those Palestinian children were massacred by Israeli's?"

    "But..the Israeli's are just defending themselves!"

    "But..but..the Palestinians don't want peace!"

    But...but..Hamas refuses to 'recognize' Israel!"

    e.t.c, e.t.c.

    Seriously, WAKE THE FUCK UP!
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    NYbenben wrote:
    Have you spent any time in Gaza? these pictures are disturbing ...no doubt.. but what are they from? why dont you show photos of after a suicide bombing that they pull of in israel where israelis are covered in blood and scraping body parts off buildings and cars to that they can bury the bodies?? i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident... who says it was caused by israelis?


    b/c according to israeli's own governmental website suicide bombings are few and far between
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    NYbenben wrote:
    Have you spent any time in Gaza? these pictures are disturbing ...no doubt.. but what are they from? why dont you show photos of after a suicide bombing that they pull of in israel where israelis are covered in blood and scraping body parts off buildings and cars to that they can bury the bodies?? i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident... who says it was caused by israelis?

    you know im sorry 6 million jews were killed by the nazi regime but i dont see why the palestinian people have to pay the price for that through invasion and being dispossessed of their land, not to mention ongoing human rights abuses visited upon them, while the world sits by basically not giving a shit. israel is supported by the entire Western world and armed to the teeth with the latest military weapons, while the palestinians have what???? their good looks and winning smiles? fuck that. if i was in that position i'd probably blow myself up for the cause as well.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    Byrnzie wrote:
    And that's something you're proud of is it?

    something i am VERY proud of... sorry...im just unsympathetic to their cause...i am jewish... i am of Israeli background... and i am damn proud of it.
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    NYbenben wrote:
    something i am VERY proud of... sorry...im just unsympathetic to their cause...i am jewish... i am of Israeli background... and i am damn proud of it.

    Then you are the problem...look in the mirror.
  • NYbenbenNYbenben Posts: 1,020
    i am far from the problem and can look at myself in the mirror just fine!
    but thanks for the advice...
    4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08

    and still jonesing for another show....
    "the waiting drove me mad..."
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    NYbenben wrote:
    i am far from the problem and can look at myself in the mirror just fine!
    but thanks for the advice...

    Yeah im sure that's what the suicide bombers think as well; you just have your army do the dirty work.
  • JackieboyJackieboy Posts: 78
    NYbenben wrote:
    Have you spent any time in Gaza? these pictures are disturbing ...no doubt.. but what are they from? why dont you show photos of after a suicide bombing that they pull of in israel where israelis are covered in blood and scraping body parts off buildings and cars to that they can bury the bodies?? i dont know what these pix are from... they are fucked up, but i dont believe that they show every day life there. this was definitly an incident... who says it was caused by israelis?

    hm, might be because Israel is the aggressor in the conflict. I don't know about your newssources but that IS pretty much everydaylife in Gaza. I'll recite one of Swedens biggest newspapers Dagens Nyheter (the numbers mostly come from their correspondents or Reuters):

    My translation,
    2008-02-29

    Israeli aircraft have killed at least 32 palestinians in Gaza, among them a couple of children. Most of them where killed since Hamas killed an israelian student through border-crossing rocket-fire last wednesday. The student was the first civil israeli in 9 months to die from such an attack.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=747698
    (the last piece of the article)

    2008-03-02

    -Ninety percent of the dead and hurt are civilians from the same families since they were at home. It seems like todays missiles were mostly directed towards civilian neighbourhoods in Jaybaliya, explains doctor Muhammed before he hurries away
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=747919
    The body count is up to 63 according to the correspondent.

    2008-03-07 An arab kills 8 and wounds 40 in a jewish school

    -This is a terrible shock, unfathomable tragedy. It's been four years since a terroristattack like this took place in Jerusalem and nobody could've imagined it would take place again, says Tuli a twentyyearold student in white shirt and black kippah.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=749601

    Hm, wonder if it could be related to the earlier news......

    yes it is.

    2008-03-07
    Avenging 130 killed palestinians in Gaza, that was the motive for the murder on eight jewish teenagers in a religious school in Jerusalem.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=749821


    2008-03-17
    Seventeen palestinians were killed in israelian raids in Gaza this wednesday. At least eleven of them were according to Reuters, civlians.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=761622

    2008-04-20
    Israelian soldiers killed five and hurt two palestinians in new raids in Gaza.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=762581

    2008-04-28
    Four children and their mother and another three palestinians were killed in israelian attacks in Gaza early this monday.
    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=765008

    Now ask again why we don't post photos on israeli casualties! The israeli body count is five leagues below the palestinian. This IS the everydaylife of gaza. Face it!
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    NYbenben wrote:
    Im a racist??... that is the first time i have EVER been called that...

    If you hang around here and try to defend Israel, it'll happen again.
    :)
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Open wrote:
    Then you are the problem...look in the mirror.

    He's part of the problem because he's an Isreali? Hey, I thought he was the racist.
  • ClariceClarice Posts: 256
    He's part of the problem because he's an Isreali? Hey, I thought he was the racist.

    I think this is not one discussion about isreali people but about the state of Israel and the policy that they are doing. When someone talk about the dangerous Bush´s government not is talking about the american people necessarily.
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    He's part of the problem because he's an Isreali? Hey, I thought he was the racist.

    No ... man any hint of negativity and immediately the racisim claims come out; standard quo. I dont give a fuck where anyone is from or their faith. It's actions and in this case statements that im commenting on.


    Originally Posted by NYbenben
    something i am VERY proud of... sorry...im just unsympathetic to their cause

    That's why he is part of the problem; its the selfish and close minded few on both sides that stand in the way of progress.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Open wrote:
    No ... man any hint of negativity and immediately the racisim claims come out; standard quo. I dont give a fuck where anyone is from or their faith. It's actions and in this case statements that im commenting on.


    Originally Posted by NYbenben
    something i am VERY proud of... sorry...im just unsympathetic to their cause

    That's why he is part of the problem; its the selfish and close minded few on both sides that stand in the way of progress.

    One can be proud of one's heritage, and still be a humanitarian. I am not commenting on NYbenben's own view ... Just stating that pride is NOT the same thing as "problematic". Sure, jingoism and mindless nationalism can create all kinds of problems ... Maybe it was the "unsympathetic" part you were focused on.
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    One can be proud of one's heritage, and still be a humanitarian. I am not commenting on NYbenben's own view ... Just stating that pride is NOT the same thing as "problematic". Sure, jingoism and mindless nationalism can create all kinds of problems ... Maybe it was the "unsympathetic" part you were focused on.


    It was the unsympathetic part that i was focused on; it's the unsympathetic on both sides that allow all the other shit to go on.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    this is why the palestinians will never have their rights restored... cause of people like reborn and nyben...
  • canadajammercanadajammer Posts: 263
    this is why the palestinians will never have their rights restored... cause of people like reborn and nyben...


    No, its mostly because of people like Arafat and the Hamas government.

    They'll get all the rights in the world (that most deserve), once they get some respectable leadership.



    It's amazing how much worse living situations have gotten in Gaza since the Hamas take over after the civil conflict with Fatah...
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