Showdown with Iran

Keiran
Keiran Posts: 393
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
Did anyone else watch Frontline last night?
I had no idea that Iran had played such a large part in our victory over the Taliban in Afghanistan. Nor had I heard about the "deal" offered to the US by the previous Iranian government (the one before Ahmadinejad) that Bush chose to reject.

By my own admission, I am not as knowledgeable about US foreign policy as I should be but I was very disturbed by this show.

And, I'm still angry about the things I learned in last week's Frontline "Cheney's Law".

Sorry if this post reads childlike compared to some of the amazing expressions of opinions I read on AMT but I felt compelled to share.
I wish a guy like Eddie, would like me.
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Comments

  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Frontline is a great show in general.

    Thanks for the mention. Here is the online version:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/showdown/?campaign=pbshomefeatures_1_frontlinebrshowdownwithiran_2007-10-24

    edit: Forgot to mention...click on the words "watch the full program online"...otherwise you just get the trailer..
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Keiran wrote:
    Did anyone else watch Frontline last night?
    I had no idea that Iran had played such a large part in our victory over the Taliban in Afghanistan. Nor had I heard about the "deal" offered to the US by the previous Iranian government (the one before Ahmadinejad) that Bush chose to reject.

    By my own admission, I am not as knowledgeable about US foreign policy as I should be but I was very disturbed by this show.

    And, I'm still angry about the things I learned in last week's Frontline "Cheney's Law".

    Sorry if this post reads childlike compared to some of the amazing expressions of opinions I read on AMT but I felt compelled to share.

    This country has had it's eyes on iran since the 1950's. First we helped over-throw their democratically elected PM because of his relationship with the Soviets and helped place the Shah in power. All of this just to keep our access to oil and natural gas in Iran.

    The US government will not be content until Iran is ruled by a US friendly puppet government that will cater to our needs while ignoring the needs of it's people.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Keiran wrote:
    Did anyone else watch Frontline last night?
    I had no idea that Iran had played such a large part in our victory over the Taliban in Afghanistan. Nor had I heard about the "deal" offered to the US by the previous Iranian government (the one before Ahmadinejad) that Bush chose to reject.

    By my own admission, I am not as knowledgeable about US foreign policy as I should be but I was very disturbed by this show.

    And, I'm still angry about the things I learned in last week's Frontline "Cheney's Law".

    Sorry if this post reads childlike compared to some of the amazing expressions of opinions I read on AMT but I felt compelled to share.

    I'm glad you posted this, cuz I was going to...:)

    I, too, was shocked to hear about the help Iran gave in Afghanistan and the deal that was offered...

    sadly, many will discount this information or never hear about it...
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    That was fairly informative. I remember the peace deal offer. Ahmadinejad also reiterated the offer again on 60 mins. The offer was instantly rejected by Bush without any sort of dialog whatsoever.

    Bush is really looking like shit in that video btw.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Danny Boy
    Danny Boy Posts: 161
    The offer Iran extended to the Bush Administration provided some seriously tantalizing perspectives: an opportunity to mend a poor relationship, possibly create a new ally in the region (or at least one that wouldn't despise so deeply) and a third party to help stabilize Iran. Being a junky for our foreign policy post-9/11, I read about this and saw television reports years back and wondered then, less deeply than I do now, why our leaders would abandon the chance to forge a positive relationship with a Middle Eastern country with so much clout in the region.

    Imagine if Bush had accepted the offer and how much cleaner the situation in Iraq would be. Instead, we've stoked the distance between us and Iran and it's getting ugly.

    Here's a great article on the subject of potential military conflict with Iran, written recently by Seymour Hersh who's penned some extremely informative and newsbreaking articles.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh

    And what the hell was Clinton thinking when she made that vote to dub the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist group? I absolutely do not condone Iran's actions in Iraq and think they should be dealt with when they pentrate Iraq's borders, but this just opens the door for Bush, Cheney et al to confront Iran militarily. Does anybody trust her???
    Trading magic for fact, no tradebacks... So this is what it's like to be an adult...
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    What were the specifics of the deal that Iran offered to Bush? I'm largely in the dark on this but am interested.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Sludge Factory wrote:
    What were the specifics of the deal that Iran offered to Bush? I'm largely in the dark on this but am interested.

    It was withdrawn and never discussed because it was so flatly denied that it was essentially insulting.

    here are the deetails
    http://mydree.newsvine.com/_news/2007/10/24/1046590-bush-administration-did-not-reply-to-an-offer-of-peace-from-iran

    Iran wanted:

    * An end to sanctions against Iran.
    * A security guarantee (no US invasion of Iran).
    * An end to the US calling for regime change in Iran.

    Iran was willing to:

    * End its nuclear weapons program.
    * End support for terrorism.
    * Stop calling for the destruction of Israel.

    I'd say that merits discussion.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It was withdrawn and never discussed because it was so flatly denied that it was essentially insulting.

    here are the deetails
    http://mydree.newsvine.com/_news/2007/10/24/1046590-bush-administration-did-not-reply-to-an-offer-of-peace-from-iran

    Iran wanted:

    * An end to sanctions against Iran.
    * A security guarantee (no US invasion of Iran).
    * An end to the US calling for regime change in Iran.

    Iran was willing to:

    * End its nuclear weapons program.
    * End support for terrorism.
    * Stop calling for the destruction of Israel.

    I'd say that merits discussion.


    why?

    they deny all that shit! if i'm not mistaken, you have taken up for them saying he didn't say he wanted israel destroyed.

    how can you deal on something yr not doing?

    by their own words they are full of shit!
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    810wmb wrote:
    why?

    they deny all that shit! if i'm not mistaken, you have taken up for them saying he didn't say he wanted israel destroyed.

    how can you deal on something yr not doing?

    by their own words they are full of shit!

    big macmood came into power after the US ignored the deal offered...
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It was withdrawn and never discussed because it was so flatly denied that it was essentially insulting.

    here are the deetails
    http://mydree.newsvine.com/_news/2007/10/24/1046590-bush-administration-did-not-reply-to-an-offer-of-peace-from-iran

    Iran wanted:

    * An end to sanctions against Iran.
    * A security guarantee (no US invasion of Iran).
    * An end to the US calling for regime change in Iran.

    Iran was willing to:

    * End its nuclear weapons program.
    * End support for terrorism.
    * Stop calling for the destruction of Israel.

    I'd say that merits discussion.

    Sounds like an offer that should have at least been explored. I don't know if Iran was being 100% sincere, probably not, but at least this would have opened the door to ending hostilities diplomatically.

    I have always believed that our hostility towards Iran has nothing to do with terrorism or national security. It has everything to do with controling the oil and natural gas resources that Iran possesses. Iran has always had, except for when the Shah was in power, closer ties to Russia and China. With the world's oil supplies probably in decline, and China becoming a major power player, we need to have our hand controlling the oil spigot to make sure that we get enough to continue to fuel our economy and to keep our economic and military dominence intact.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    inmytree wrote:
    big macmood came into power after the US ignored the deal offered...


    oh, so they just started hating israel? they just started supporting terrorism?

    jezee
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    810wmb wrote:
    why?

    they deny all that shit! if i'm not mistaken, you have taken up for them saying he didn't say he wanted israel destroyed.

    how can you deal on something yr not doing?

    by their own words they are full of shit!

    I'm not even sure that article is accurate. There are seemingly few links remaining on the net about it. It could be a propaganda article or badly mis worded. either that or Iran is pandering to US mentality on the issue.

    Maybe it's it's like dumbing it down so they both sides can associate and speak the same language.

    If anyone can find a more detailed link. They seem to be all pulled from existence, or my search skills suck today.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    810wmb wrote:
    oh, so they just started hating israel? they just started supporting terrorism?

    jezee

    who cares if they "hate" Israel...they are big boys and girls, they can take care of themselves...

    the bottom line is, the US has an opportunity to begin positive relations with Iran, whereas they were willing to end the quest for nuclear weapons...which in a roundabout way would have kept Israel safer in the long run...

    seriously, do even read the posts or do you jump right to the talking points...?
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mammasan wrote:
    Sounds like an offer that should have at least been explored. I don't know if Iran was being 100% sincere, probably not, but at least this would have opened the door to ending hostilities diplomatically.

    I have always believed that our hostility towards Iran has nothing to do with terrorism or national security. It has everything to do with controling the oil and natural gas resources that Iran possesses. Iran has always had, except for when the Shah was in power, closer ties to Russia and China. With the world's oil supplies probably in decline, and China becoming a major power player, we need to have our hand controlling the oil spigot to make sure that we get enough to continue to fuel our economy and to keep our economic and military dominence intact.

    It's zero to do with terrorism from what I can see as well.. Iran is rising as a power in the region, and the US won't have it. Iran will not bow to US power, so they will be forced to bow.

    There are some people that are absolutely raging to have war happen in Iran...and soon....like yesterday.

    fuuck...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    inmytree wrote:
    who cares if they "hate" Israel...they are big boys and girls, they can take care of themselves...

    the bottom line is, the US has an opportunity to begin positive relations with Iran, whereas they were willing to end the quest for nuclear weapons...which in a roundabout way would have kept Israel safer in the long run...

    seriously, do even read the posts or do you jump right to the talking points...?

    they are allies, we stand with them.

    well, i guess it matters to iran if they hate isreal, if they were willing to stop hating them. (yeah, right.)

    once again, they fucking lie.

    i still don't see how you can argue the fact that they aren't going for the nukes one day and then turn around and say they were willing to give up the quest for them.

    which is it?


    these little shits lie, we give them money, they stick it in our ass...we look like the fools we are for dealing with them.
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It's zero to do with terrorism from what I can see as well.. Iran is rising as a power in the region, and the US won't have it. Iran will not bow to US power, so they will be forced to bow.

    There are some people that are absolutely raging to have war happen in Iran...and soon....like yesterday.

    fuuck...


    once again, iran is admitting they support terrorism, it's in one of the things they said they were willing to give up.
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    810wmb wrote:
    why?

    they deny all that shit! if i'm not mistaken, you have taken up for them saying he didn't say he wanted israel destroyed.

    how can you deal on something yr not doing?

    by their own words they are full of shit!

    Well thank god this US Administration (and all others before them) are a beacon light of honesty and integrity.

    Where would the world be without them.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    810wmb wrote:
    they are allies, we stand with them.

    well, i guess it matters to iran if they hate isreal, if they were willing to stop hating them. (yeah, right.)

    once again, they fucking lie.

    i still don't see how you can argue the fact that they aren't going for the nukes one day and then turn around and say they were willing to give up the quest for them.

    which is it?


    these little shits lie, we give them money, they stick it in our ass...we look like the fools we are for dealing with them.

    did you take the time to view the Frontline piece...? I'm guessing no...
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    NMyTree wrote:
    Well thank god this US Administration (and all others before them) are a beacon light of honesty and integrity.

    Where would the world be without them.


    yr right, we suck
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    810wmb wrote:
    once again, iran is admitting they support terrorism, it's in one of the things they said they were willing to give up.

    So do we the only difference is that we don't admit it and will probably never give it up.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul

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