How can really conservative people be hard core Pearl Jam fans?
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I honestly don't get it. Being a liberal, I can't imagine that I could ever be a huge fan of a band that used its music and platform to promote extremly conservative ideas.
I love music for what it says, not just the guitar riff behind it. So if it said a bunch of stuff that I thought was total BS, I wouldn't be able to really love the music, and I wouldn't want to.
Additionally, I don't think being a talented musician makes up for being an offensive asshole. So I wouldn't be able to respect Ed as a person if he were espousing political philosophies or other ideas that I found offensive.
And before someone pulls out the same old tired anti-liberal line frequently used on this board, let me be clear that I love Pearl Jam in large part because of their liberal politics; I do not have liberal politics because I love Pearl Jam.
I love music for what it says, not just the guitar riff behind it. So if it said a bunch of stuff that I thought was total BS, I wouldn't be able to really love the music, and I wouldn't want to.
Additionally, I don't think being a talented musician makes up for being an offensive asshole. So I wouldn't be able to respect Ed as a person if he were espousing political philosophies or other ideas that I found offensive.
And before someone pulls out the same old tired anti-liberal line frequently used on this board, let me be clear that I love Pearl Jam in large part because of their liberal politics; I do not have liberal politics because I love Pearl Jam.
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Haha! He's just the offensive-conservative-idea-spouting musician I was thinking of! (Although, even he has endorsed Obama.)
Edit of my original post: I CAN understand how non-English-speaking conservatives could like Pearl Jam.
BTW, Toby Keith is a registered Democrat....and I am pretty sure he has smoked some weed with more than Willy.
Anyways, I'm a moderate liberal/Liberatarian now. 99% of Pearl Jam's music can hit home with anybody.
(This is about a dozen times I've seen this thread since I've been around)
I honestly do not see Pearl Jam's music as political at all other than that terrible Bushleaguer "song".
And I do not go to the concerts to hear Eddie talk politics. If he spent more than the 2 mins or so in a 3 hour concert babbling about politics, I wouldn't be happy,
In other words, it's about the music for me...which has very, very little to do with politics.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm trying to think of a conservative-leaning band that I enjoy, and I'm having difficulty coming up with one. I don't think that's due to the political content of the song, however. I think it's due to the quality of the music. If there was a great political rock band made up of political conservatives I would enjoy it, so long as the music was good and the lyrical content was inoffensive (i.e. "gays are going to hell", which is a stereotype of the social conservative wing of the party). I don't think PJ has been that divisive in their music regarding political issues. I mean, what's the worst they've done? The importance of political protest (Grievance), and America under W. (most of the self-titled). Those aren't particularly extreme or radical viewpoints.
Wait, Johnny Cash. I'm pretty sure he was a Republican most of his life, and no one screws with him.
True, Johnny was. But I believe he was surrounded by a bunch of liberals, so it's hard to call the Ramones a 'conservative' band.
But these labels are pretty meaningless in music, I feel. Is a band a 'liberal' band just because it's made up of liberals? Is a band a 'conservative' band if its' players are conservative Republicans? I think it depends more on the political content of the lyrics then the politics of the players.
It's just good rock.
i just seem to remember long ago in like 92 i read an article about the band and it stated that stone was a republican....the reason i still remember is i was rather shocked that he would be in the band with ed or vise versa....but then i was young and stupid
I remembering reading an interview that said Mike read alot of Barry Goldwater once. I think that's as close as they've come. Stone has also said several times that he's the most moderate member of the band.
Bon Jovi sucks
Good points.
Although I got lucky that my favirite band has a lot of the same political veiws as I, I can see why anyone could love this band. You are right, there are many songs that don't have political influence.
Maybe I wasn't clear that I'm talking about conservative IDEAS and VALUES - regarding social issues, etc. - not just official politics. In my mind, many of their songs (including covers), their words outside of songs, and their actions promote their values. Here are just the first few I can think of:
No More (anti-war)
Masters of War (anti-war)
Bushleaguer (anti-conservative-President)
Porch tag (pro-choice)
Ed writing "'pro-choice on his arm & wearing the image of a coathanger on his shirt during performances of Porch (pro-choice)
Evenflow (empathy for the homeless - rather than saying they must be lazy fucks who should get a job)
Glorified G (anti-gun-culture)
WMA (anti-institutional-racism)
Rolling Stone article about Ed's experience with abortion (pro-choice)
Performing at pro-choice benefit concerts (pro-choice)
Performing at Nader rallies (pro-liberal-Presidential-candidate)
Performing at Vote for Change shows (pro-liberal-Presidential-candidate)
Saying at the LA2 solo show that if Cheney's doctor "accidentally" killed him, he should get a Man of the Year award (anti-conservative-VP)
Here's to the State (anti-conservative-leaders)
Giant Obama banner at solo shows (pro-liberal-Presidential-candidate)
Et cetera
Yes, I'm talking about the values espoused by the band as a band, the causes it supports as a band, the messages it sends through its music and at its concerts, the way it uses its platform to affect change, etc.
I don't care as much about people's personal lives/beliefs. I don't usually know much about their personal lives and don't seek to know. (One exception is that I don't want to give my money to pedophiles, to people who have vowed to donate it to causes I strongly oppose, etc.)
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=5971110#post5971110
Folks had some intersting stuff to say over there.
I know Toby Keith is a Democrat, which is indicative of the fact that I'm not trying to stereotype. (Sorry if it came across that way, but that's not what I meant.) I haven't always voted along party lines either, and I'm not a Democrat. You'll note that I didn't use the words Democrat or Republican anywhere in my post and have not labeled anyone.
What I'm saying is that I don't understand how people who have completely opposite views on politics, social issues, etc. than Pearl Jam could consider PJ to be their FAVORITE band. That's not to say that any particular person or party has any particular views. But some people on this board seem to strongly disagree about things that are fundamental to what the band is trying to accomplish. I don't understand how (note that I'm not saying they shouldn't) someone who disagrees with one of the band's primary purposes (to send a message in support of certain political and social change) could be such a big supporter.
For instance, I am staunchly pro-choice. So is Pearl Jam, who promote choice through (at least tags on one of) their songs, through visual images, through speeches and articles, through playing benefits, etc. They are not privately pro-choice. They use their band as a force to support the pro-choice movement.
But there are some people on this board (who presumably love Pearl Jam) who are staunchy "pro-life". They say that abortion should not be a legal option for women, that women who have abortions are irresponsible, that people who are pro-choice are heartless bastards, etc. If any of those people had a band and used it to promote these ideas, there's no way in hell I could support them or claim them as my favorite band. Similarly, if I thought Eddie Vedder was a heartless bastard, I couldn't support him.
Additionally, I'm a feminist and I don't like songs that are disparaging to women. I'm anti-war and I don't like songs that promote war (hence the Toby Keith reference). I support gay rights and I don't like songs that make reference to "faggots". (I refer here to a Guns N' Roses song, which I used to like until I got older and really considered the lyrics.) I'm against pedophilia and don't support music made by pedophiles. Am I perfect with these standards? Of course not. But even for the bands I kind of like anyway, I would certainly not consider any of them to be even close to my favorite band.
Anyway, I hope I've better explained myself this time. I am by no means suggesting that no Republican should like Pearl Jam or that all PJ fans should be liberal Democrats, nor am I stereotyping the values of any group. I just don't understand how people can so strongly support and enjoy any art or artist whose message is so strongly contrary to their own values.
For me, it's about the emotions in these songs, and I'd go song-by-song, line-by-line with you if you want, but by far, Pearl Jam and Eddie sing about emotions far more than politics.
I can sit there and laugh along with Bushleager, giggle at Hail to the State and get all intenze with Masters of War, cause what I really wanna do is just ... "Release."
And then, "Smile!"
Wrote it up, take a moment and read it, won't you?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5371045&postcount=18
And to understand the Island reference:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5371052&postcount=19
Heck, that whole thread is good and i welcome the thoughtful responses.
I read your links. Thanks for sharing.
I think many people aren't really understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about politics per se. But I'm too tired to try to explain it again right now.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
First of all, you've only named about 4 actual PJ songs there (discounting tags and covers). Their catalog is much more extensive than that.
Secondly and more importantly, their lyrics really aren't that specific. Those songs can really mean a wide range of things to different people. For example, I have never once thought that EvenFlow was anything even remotely political.
As far as speeches, statements, banners, etc., they just do not make up that big a part of the concerts or the experience of their music for me. I went to one of the VFC shows and Eddie gave a little 2-3 minute speech which really wasn't Pro-Democratic at all. The message was to vote and to vote with your head.
Maybe us conservative fans aren't as intolerant as you like to portray us. Would the liberal fans sit through some of those statements and be as accepting of others' opinions in a public demonstration?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.