Israel doesn't need the world's approval to defend itself..

Nakedeye66 wrote:

Right on fando y lis. If rockets were lobbed into Paris and schoolchildren blown up ... would they need our permission? When the Chechens terroize Russia, did they seek our permission to act? If the Turks started bombing Greece and came into to grab a few hostages, would Greece claim retaliation was "pointless" and extreme.

One set of rules for the world ... another set of rules for Israel. Same old, same old.

Hey, people are entitled to hate Israel, or hate anything they like, but don't insult the rest of us and say it is in the name of "tolerance" or "peace". There are more Nazi-era slogans at UN conferences, "peace rallies", and among the supposed "progressives" than you'll ever see amongst conservatives or the Christian right.

I'm neither liberal nor conservative. But once upon a time I was a true-believing liberal. Despite their flaws, the virtue of tolerance kept me on their side. But for plain unadulterated antisemitism, your best bet for a good show is to follow Cindy Sheehans traveling circus. If you go see Falwell's circus, you'll come home disppointed. For the real rabid antisemites, go to the halls of the UN or a college campus.

Nakedeye66 wrote:

First, the Israel=Nazis analogy would be laughable if it weren't so sad (and bigoted). The REAL Nazis (circa 1933-1945) actually had REAL allies in the Middle East. The grand mufti of Jerusalem was formally allied with Hitler, and they shared a common goal - to rid the earth of Jews. That Grand Mufti is what they today call "Palestinian", but that term wasn't invented until 1967. And the reason that they could share the goal of ridding the Middle East of Jews was that (gasp!), there actually were Jews in that part of the world long before the modern State of Israel in 1948. Of course that isn't PC to say to folks who believe the Jews "took Palestinian land". After the armistice in 1949, Jews who lived all over the Arab world were murdered or driven from their homes to the one place of relative safety - Israel ... and yes, that included the many Jews living in the "territories", who were driven (or killed) from the West Bank that came under Jordanian control, and Gaza which came under Egyptian control. But nobody ever speaks of Jewish refugees because to those of you who think you are so "progressive", it is perfectly acceptable for 27 Arab nations to have "cleansed" themselves of Jews, while you conveniently ignore that Israel is 20% Arab, and they actually srve in the parliament. From 1949-1967, the only "occupation" was by Jordan and Egypt. But curiously Jordan and Egypt refused to grant citizenship to the indiginous Arab population. Why? Because then they would have been assimilated Jordanian or Egyptian citizens ... God forbid that should have happened because then the propaganda anvil of 5th generation "refugees" couldn't be held over the head of Israel. You know, the "oppressor", the "Nazis". Just like the real Nazis, the real Arabs shared a goal of Judenrein land ... and accomplished it! And yet you gullibly buy into the myth of the Israeli "Goliath" when Israel is the size of a pubic hair on a bedsheet when compared to the 27 nation Arab Middle East. Do you shed a tear for the Jews who were killed or driven from those lands??

So the real Nazis had real allies in the Middle East, and the Grand (Palestinian) Mufti topped the list. What else did the real Nazis do in the Middle East. Well, the real Nazis sent down envoys of sorts into Syria and Iraq. And, in conjunction with the locals, the Nazis created local Nazi parties under the Baath name. Thats right, the Baathists of Saddam and Assad were a Nazi joint venture.

So for all your IDF=Nazi bluster, you might be compelled to look at who was allied with the ACTUAL Nazis, and the "Judenrein" philosophy they both believed and executed jointly.

So let's look at 1967 when the alleged "occupation" began. Funny thing is, Arafat's PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964. Odd that they supposedly sought to liberate only "occupied territories" as we know them today BEFORE those territories were actually "occupied". Just what do you think the "victmized" Palestinians were looking to "liberate". Pretty simple actually, since the goal has remained unchanged since the 19th century - no Jews from the river (Jordan) to the sea (Mediterranean). Sounds like a rather authentic Nazi philsophy to me. But I forgot, in a world where history begins in '67 and is propagandized, the Jews are the "new Nazis". Forgive me for understanding a little actual history.

And your beloved UN, the bastion of all peace loving and tolerant people. Or shall we say "apartheid UN". Funny how Israel is accused of apartheid (i.e former South Africa), but the "tolerant" UN has rules which prohibit only one country from sitting on committees - Israel, of course. One set of rules for all the nations of the world ... another for Israel. Sounds like REAL apartheid to me, and not the baseless slur against tiny Israel.

And for this theory that Israel was somehow implanted amongst long-established Arab nations. Get real?

The Middle East as we know it today is largely a creation of the British and French divvying up their spoils of war when the Ottoman Empire fell in WWI. For about 600 years, the Middle East was ruled by the Turks. With the exception of Egypt and Persia (Iran), NONE of these nations existed prior to WWI, and many came about in the 1950s (AFTER Israel). They are all British and French creations. Unnatural nations created by the REAL colonialists. A colonial power has a home nation and yet seeks to expand over the globe to other nations. Zionism is the belief that the Jews, LIKE EVERY OTHER PEOPLE on the globe, should simply have a home. A far cry from true colonialism.

... which raises the next question, what is "Palestine" and why aren't the people there entitled to the same thing? Fair enough. When the Ottomans fell, the Brits took control over a portion of land known as the Palestine Mandate. The name "Palestine" came from the second century Romans after sacking biblical Israel and scattering the Jews. It was controlled by various entities over the next two millenia, but at know time by those who now call themselves "Palestinian". So after WWI, the British Mandate of Palestine encompassed all of what is now Israel, Gaza, West Bank, AND JORDAN. Around 1919, they decided to partition it into an Arab state ... and a Jewish state, divided at the Jordan River. East of the Jordan, a Palestinian state was created and given to the control of the Hashemite monarchy (the Husseins that have ruled, and do rule Jordan). To the west of the Jordan River (hence the name "West Bank"), it was to be a Jewish state. The Jewish state was proposed to encompass all of Israel and the "territories".

Jordan ... is close to 70% PALESTINIAN.

Well, Europe became decidedly more anti-Jewish as the 1920s and 1930s moved along. By the end of WWII, the UN proposed to partition the Jewish side a SECOND TIME. The Arabs rejected it, and Egypt, Iraq, Syria, and Jordan all attacked. When an armistice was reached in '49, Jordan took control of the West Bank and Egypt took Gaza, dutifully making sure the Arabs there remained "refugees".

I'm sure this is way too literate and confusing for you. After all it's so much easier to goosestep along with the anti-Israel left and shout slogans like Israel=Nazis. So I hate to trouble you with historical detail. After all, your leaders don't want you to think independently. They just want you to repeat their slogans and spew their venom.

But at a minimum, call it what it is. The disingenuous comparison of Israel to Nazis is a really weak cover for your unbashed Jew-hatred. so come out and be proud of your TRUE Nazi philosophy, which is shared by the Aryan Nations, Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian mullahs, Al Qaeda, the UN, Chomsky, Zinn, and the erudite folks at LeMonde and who sip cocktails at the American Colony hotel in Jerusalem lamenting those "Israeli brutes". Be proud of your intolerance and Judenrein values ... don't project it upon a people who merely seek to defend their home which is smaller than New Jersey (and, frankly, a home NOBODY WANTED until Jews came there in large numbers. For centuries it was amongst the most neglected and barren land on the planet).

We all want peace. Sure would be nice.

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly approved a plan, UN General Assembly Resolution 181, to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning the British Mandate of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Each state would comprise three major sections, linked by extraterritorial crossroads; the Arab state would also have an enclave at Jaffa. In consideration of their religious significance, the Jerusalem area and Bethlehem were assigned to an international zone to be administered by the UN. Although both Jews and Arabs criticized aspects of the plan, the resolution was welcomed by most of the Jewish population, including the Jewish Agency, but was considered unacceptable by the Arab population in Palestine and by the surrounding Arab states.

Nakedeye66 wrote:

Byrnzie, I wouldn't want to muddy up any of your BBC-fed "history". They are proud Jew-haters and I wouldn't want to "muddy up" your sentiments. As an American, I see the Brits as great allies. But I sure wouldn't expect a Jew should trust anyone in Europe, even the Brits. Europe, if nothing else, is consistent in its 1700 years of Jew baiting. The reason Israelis listen to the US only is because the US is the only nation in the history of the world without antisemitism as part of its national character. In the US, you get voices on both sides. In Europe ... well, you solved your "Jewish problem".

Jews have been pretty stupid historically. It took them about 30 centuries to figure out that Europe will never care about their right to exist, and could care less if they ceased to exist (and can be quite gleeful about that prospect). But then comes a new nation where Jewish immigrants met some hostility, but basically the same animus that greeted every other immigrant group. In a bizarre new historical development, Jews got treated pretty much the same as everywhere else.

In America, people of all ethnicities share a common asset. All of theirancestors were the ones to get the f*&^ out of Europe! This nation isn't reflexively anti-Jew. Certain administrations are more Arabist (i.e Bush 41, Eisenhower) ... others have more affinity for Israel. But in Europe ... no such mixture. Jew-baiting is probably the ONLY thing which truly unites the Continent. And in modern times, it sort of makes sense. Modern Europe has no Jews, and their Arab populations are quite large. So it makes sense to preach to the choir. I love the BBC for Python reruns, but when it comes to news, I can predict the script every time. The BBC is a joke ... yet it isn't a very funny one.

Unless and until a bold leader gives them reason to the contrary, Israel will never trust Europe (or even Great Britain) until it shows true "balance". So preach to your BBC choir ... I'd expect nothing less than the party line you recite. I can watch the BBC too. Pretty predictable stuff.

Byrnzie wrote:

You say that "Israel will never trust Europe (or even Great Britain) until it shows true "balance"." What do you mean by "true balance?" Do you mean that Israel will never trust Europe until Europe, like the U.S, supports Israel in it's breaching of over 60 U.N resolutions and it's attempt to grab even more land in the West Bank and Gaza?

Nakedeye66 wrote:

See right above your post. I did answer your question - and agreed with your statement.