Ken Lay

MLC2006 wrote:

see, this is the whole faulty logic that you're basing your argument on...you are absolutely not responsible for buying a shitburger if you're told it's a hamburger

That's odd because I'd be the one handing over the money for it.

, there's appropriate action for you to take once you realize you got duped.

Yes there is -- not buying another shitburger just because someone tells me it's a hamburger.

just like there's laws in place for the workers of Enron who were duped by Lay. they were sold shitburgers and told it was hamburgers. just like the Neil Young line, "they give you this but you paid for that". sorry you can't seem to grasp it.....

I do grasp it. The problem with your analogy is everyone involved got exactly what they payed for -- unreasonable risk.

what Lay did to the Enron workers was criminal, what don't you understand about that?

I certainly understand it was against the law. I just don't understand why your laws are only enforced when people lose money, and the inherent irony of your hatred of greed.

I still support corporate america...hell i work for a corporation and they pay me well. SO i cant complain.

farfromglorified wrote:

Not really, no. However, if I was to go work for you, make your matches, buy your kerosene and then pay you to burn my house down, yeah.

You may have been reading another publication, but I don't recally anyone paying Ken to steal their money.

farfromglorified wrote:

You're right. They paid Ken Lay to turn their money into more money. But they never bothered to ask Ken Lay how he planned to do that, and they never attached any terms to their gift to him. And they took his empty promises as proof of their genius and poured more money into that hole. And when their Midas proved to be another fraud, they were the first to scream "GREED!!!"

No actually there were promises. There were accounting reports and various other annual reports that were falsified, and were independantly audited by an accounting firm who falsified the audits.

Those were promises.

Abuskedti wrote:

No actually there were promises. There were accounting reports and various other annual reports that were falsified, and were independantly audited by an accounting firm who falsified the audits.

They weren't falsified. They described exactly what was going on, based on the standards in place. People just assumed that the numbers were healthy. Obviously they were not.

Those were promises.

And when you break a promise, are you thrown in jail?

farfromglorified wrote:

My point was the Ken Lay is responsible for his own idiocy, not the idiocy of people who bought into it.

He is responsible for the downfall of his function at Enron, and his loss is the appropriate justice for it.

Enron employees are responsible for their investments, and their losses are the appropriate justice for their decisions.

Ken Lay forced nothing on anyone but himself.

I find it quite funny that you keep pegging some blame on the empolyees???? Just for the record my friend. My girlfriends company got taken over by a nice Yank corp. and they force them to buy into the company. Tell me again where they are taking a risk themselves. Yeah I thought so. They tank and all their money just disappears. And they had no choice. Really easy to comprehend, I would think. We all know who the crook is and for some reason you are just not accepting it. Is he your uncle?

know1 wrote:

They don't force them to buy into the company. First of all, the employees can work elsewhere.

.

It seems blamming everthing that happens to everyone is convenient for those that fare well in this chaotic society.. at least for those that fell into and acceptable pod.. this way they can tell themselves they earned it.

even flow? wrote:

I find it quite funny that you keep pegging some blame on the empolyees???? Just for the record my friend. My girlfriends company got taken over by a nice Yank corp. and they force them to buy into the company. Tell me again where they are taking a risk themselves. Yeah I thought so. They tank and all their money just disappears. And they had no choice. Really easy to comprehend, I would think. We all know who the crook is and for some reason you are just not accepting it. Is he your uncle?

No, Ken Lay is not my uncle.

The rest of your statement makes little sense. What money "disappeared", and who had "no choice"?

farfromglorified wrote:

No, Ken Lay is not my uncle.

The rest of your statement makes little sense. What money "disappeared", and who had "no choice"?

exactly...people have a choice...good paying jobs are everywhere and people can leave at any time, just check your local paper. So what if one has bills and a family...hey, if another company takes over, the employee should have researched the situation, forseen the takeover, and been prepared...simple as that...

just the other day, a fella was mugged in broad daylight, while walking to the store...I place blame on the muggie, since he should have been perpared for the random mugger to jump him...he should have taken a different route, or drove a car, a taxi perhaps...or he should have not been so greedy for wanting a gallon of milk....what a dumbass, I say...

Abuskedti wrote:

They were falsified.. which is why he was convicted of a crime.

No, he was convicted of securities fraud and making false statements to a bank. He was convicted not of doctoring financial records, but of participating in a "conspiracy". From the government's own mouth:

"As a part of the alleged scheme, unrealistic and unattainable earnings goals were set for Enron, based on analysts’ expectations rather than on actual or reasonably achievable business results. When, as expected within the company, Enron consistently fell short of those goals, Lay, Skilling, Causey and others allegedly orchestrated a series of accounting gimmicks designed to make up the shortfall between actual and predicted results. Enron then announced publicly that it had met or exceeded analysts’ expectations when, as Lay, Skilling and Causey allegedly knew, it made its numbers only by engaging in fraud. The indictment also alleges that Lay, Skilling and Causey made false and misleading representations about Enron’s finances and business operations to analysts, at press conferences, in SEC filings and elsewhere."

None of those things are illegal when investors are making money. They happen every day in America so that people's 401k's, employee pensions, CEO's bank accounts everyone else gets rich. However, when those schemes fall apart, then they become illegal.

Promise was your word.

Unless of course you're not a CEO, then it doesn't matter, right?