you keep discussing "reason"...is that not a term that is nearly impossible to define...?
Reason: man's ability to think logically.
Honestly, I don't understand what you mean by "without reason"....and what it has do with Lay duping his employees...
You don't understand how reason relates to duping? Interesting.
Let's run through some examples.
You asked if a person who works for a paycheck is greedy. Since greed is the sacrifice of reason for money, there are conditions under which a person who works for a paycheck can be greedy. For example, if the person expects the value of that paycheck to exceed the value of his labor, that person becomes unreasonable and therefore greedy. Why? Because someone else must then provide the gap between the value of that paycheck and the value of that labor. And since the other person involved may simply refuse or be rendered unable to fill that gap, the paycheck cannot be expected. Similarly, if a person expects their paycheck to be provided regardless of outside factors or the value of their labor, that person is also unreasonable since the fact remains that a paycheck requires someone to pay it and possession of a value to back that check.
Similarly, an investor who invests on nothing more than a feeling of confidence is unreasonable (assuming that they want a return on that investment). A feeling of confidence is not related to the performance of a stock, unless the stock price is based on nothing more than the combined confidence of thousands of investors. Confidence cannot create profit.
A resonable investor, for example, would never have invested in Enron. Reasonable investors consider products, markets and direction long before they consider last quarter's earnings ratio. Enron's products were largely vapor. Their market was slight and they had little to no competitve advantage within that space. Their direction was haphazard and often contradictory. Furthermore, Enron's financials weren't good. Their quarterly increases looked great and were swallowed by the analyst community, but the numbers themselves never added up. Their ratios were terrible and their overall liabilities kept rising. They were obviously using profit reserves to fund their quarterly growth. But none of that mattered as long as the quarterly numbers were good and the stock price kept rising.
When you boil everything down, Enron was in the confidence business and everything that went on reflected that. Their business was nothing more than a fucking church. "Have faith, don't ask questions" should have been their motto. And just like Jim Jones wasn't the only fool at Jonestown, Ken Lay wasn't the only fool at Enron. But people bought into his bullshit lock, stock, and barrel. And it takes two to tango in that kind of relationship. This isn't a mugger holding a gun to your head. This is a salesman that allows you to hold onto your wallet. But if you're going to pay a man to turn iron into gold, don't be surprised when you find out he's nothing more than a mystic.
Other companies continue to operate this way. An excellent example is Overstock.com. They're guilty of many of the same "crimes", but no one cares yet because the company is still operating, employing people, and making short and long sellers money. Microsoft has also done many of the same things as Enron and again, no one is going after Bill Gates or Steve Balmer.
Was Ken Lay a liar? Hell yes. Was Ken Lay a dirtbag? Of course. But if you're going to string him up you need to string up every liar and dirtbag in town. And if you're going to go after those who profited from Enron's malfaesance, why aren't you going after the employees whose salaries were paid for by that malfeasance?
its easier if you are sincere and only say things that are true. and only strive for the truth, rahter that proving some point you feel needs to be made about society.
But the Enron situation stems from a problem with society, not just a problem with one moron.
I don't disagree with your contention that we allow this kind of thing too often and that all large companies use similar tactics to make themselves look better - and imporve their portfolios. In fact i believe our whole economy is built on a foundation of deceipt.
Much of it, yes. And for any act of deceipt to work, one must lie and one must believe. I'd prefer to tackle both parts of that equation, rather than just one.
That is a separate issue. The bottom line is that Lay stole from many investers as well as other debtors, suppliers, distributors and anyone else Enron owed money to.
Again, you can't trace a single dollar that was stolen. All you can point to is stock owned by the market that decreased in value. A decrease in the value of a stock isn't theft since you don't own the value of a stock, you only own a claim on that value. People are still free to claim that value. The problem is that the value is $0.
As a whole we do a pretty good job of providing a nice quality of live for many people. We balance many things that allows these billions of people to share the planet. We can not just abandon it - we have to look at it more honestly and make adjustments slowly and continue to analyze honestly and at the same time find a goal that can be agreed upon by many.
I'm certainly not suggesting anyone abandon the planet. I'm suggesting people abandon what is destroying that planet: faith.
being emotional and pretending that what Lay did is OK just because others are worse and still getting away with it, only serves to cloud the issue and perpetuates it.
Please stop it. I'm not saying what Lay did is OK. It was wrong. But it was not the only wrong committed. It's not a matter of Lay being bad or the employees/investors/media/etc being bad. It's both.
Lay was a theif, and he hurt many honest hard working people that did their part in good faith - If doing your part in good faith is not enough - then clearly things need to change - but that is not the fault of the people that did their part in good faith.
Faith, both good and bad, is what is destroying this world my friend. The rejection of faith is the only thing that will save it.
But the Enron situation stems from a problem with society, not just a problem with one moron.
Much of it, yes. And for any act of deceipt to work, one must lie and one must believe. I'd prefer to tackle both parts of that equation, rather than just one.
Again, you can't trace a single dollar that was stolen. All you can point to is stock owned by the market that decreased in value. A decrease in the value of a stock isn't theft since you don't own the value of a stock, you only own a claim on that value. People are still free to claim that value. The problem is that the value is $0.
I'm certainly not suggesting anyone abandon the planet. I'm suggesting people abandon what is destroying that planet: faith.
Please stop it. I'm not saying what Lay did is OK. It was wrong. But it was not the only wrong committed. It's not a matter of Lay being bad or the employees/investors/media/etc being bad. It's both.
Faith, both good and bad, is what is destroying this world my friend. The rejection of faith is the only thing that will save it.
You go ahead and abandon faith.. hope that works for ya.
You don't understand how reason relates to duping? Interesting.
Let's run through some examples.
You asked if a person who works for a paycheck is greedy. Since greed is the sacrifice of reason for money, there are conditions under which a person who works for a paycheck can be greedy. For example, if the person expects the value of that paycheck to exceed the value of his labor, that person becomes unreasonable and therefore greedy. Why? Because someone else must then provide the gap between the value of that paycheck and the value of that labor. And since the other person involved may simply refuse or be rendered unable to fill that gap, the paycheck cannot be expected. Similarly, if a person expects their paycheck to be provided regardless of outside factors or the value of their labor, that person is also unreasonable since the fact remains that a paycheck requires someone to pay it and possession of a value to back that check.
Similarly, an investor who invests on nothing more than a feeling of confidence is unreasonable (assuming that they want a return on that investment). A feeling of confidence is not related to the performance of a stock, unless the stock price is based on nothing more than the combined confidence of thousands of investors. Confidence cannot create profit.
A resonable investor, for example, would never have invested in Enron. Reasonable investors consider products, markets and direction long before they consider last quarter's earnings ratio. Enron's products were largely vapor. Their market was slight and they had little to no competitve advantage within that space. Their direction was haphazard and often contradictory. Furthermore, Enron's financials weren't good. Their quarterly increases looked great and were swallowed by the analyst community, but the numbers themselves never added up. Their ratios were terrible and their overall liabilities kept rising. They were obviously using profit reserves to fund their quarterly growth. But none of that mattered as long as the quarterly numbers were good and the stock price kept rising.
When you boil everything down, Enron was in the confidence business and everything that went on reflected that. Their business was nothing more than a fucking church. "Have faith, don't ask questions" should have been their motto. And just like Jim Jones wasn't the only fool at Jonestown, Ken Lay wasn't the only fool at Enron. But people bought into his bullshit lock, stock, and barrel. And it takes two to tango in that kind of relationship. This isn't a mugger holding a gun to your head. This is a salesman that allows you to hold onto your wallet. But if you're going to pay a man to turn iron into gold, don't be surprised when you find out he's nothing more than a mystic.
Other companies continue to operate this way. An excellent example is Overstock.com. They're guilty of many of the same "crimes", but no one cares yet because the company is still operating, employing people, and making short and long sellers money. Microsoft has also done many of the same things as Enron and again, no one is going after Bill Gates or Steve Balmer.
Was Ken Lay a liar? Hell yes. Was Ken Lay a dirtbag? Of course. But if you're going to string him up you need to string up every liar and dirtbag in town. And if you're going to go after those who profited from Enron's malfaesance, why aren't you going after the employees whose salaries were paid for by that malfeasance?
again with the subjective terms...nice change to "unreasonable"...
let me ask...who determines the "value" of a persons job...today, for example, as part of my job duties and requirements, I had to explain to a mother her child fell on the Autistic Spectrum...perhaps one of the hardest things I've ever done...what's that worth...? for the record, I expect nothing more or less for my days work, but I know for sure that not many people in this world would want that job...however, I have to wonder should I get more for that...?
how about a CEO...what the does that person do that's worth more that anyone else..they delegate, tell others what to do, and sit back and get big cash...they do pretty much the same thing a manager of Burger King does, without the cash...
as for Jim Jones...my response: what the hell are you talking about know...
I have no idea what Overstock does, nor do I care...
in your last paragraph you say something about Lay being a liar and dirtbag...you forgot Felon...that is why he should have been strung up...plain and simple...well, at least for some...
again with the subjective terms...nice change to "unreasonable"...
I use both terms. A "reasonable" action is one consistent with logic. An "unreasonable" action is one in violation of logic.
let me ask...who determines the "value" of a persons job...today, for example, as part of my job duties and requirements, I had to explain to a mother her child fell on the Autistic Spectrum...perhaps one of the hardest things I've ever done...what's that worth...? for the record, I expect nothing more or less for my days work, but I know for sure that not many people in this world would want that job...however, I have to wonder should I get more for that...?
It's worth whatever the mother was willing to pay for it, minus whatever costs went into the effort.
how about a CEO...what the does that person do that's worth more that anyone else..they delegate, tell others what to do, and sit back and get big cash...they do pretty much the same thing a manager of Burger King does, without the cash...
Not quite. Why don't you try being CEO of a hospital and making a decision about how much money goes into research and how much money goes into practical application and grapple with how many lives that saves?
Why don't you try being CEO of my company (we measure employee satisfcation and performance) and know that if a single piece of bad information gets out of this office someone might be unjustly fired, or someone might be unjustly compensated at the cost of another?
You think CEOs just "sit back and get big cash"??? Tell me, what do you think of those who accuse the poor of being "lazy and stupid"?
as for Jim Jones...my response: what the hell are you talking about know...
Jim Jones was a man who sold faith. His followers bought it.
Ken Lay was a man who sold faith. His employees and investors bought it.
I have no idea what Overstock does, nor do I care...
Yet when they collapse and people lose their jobs in scandal, then you will.
in your last paragraph you say something about Lay being a liar and dirtbag...you forgot Felon...that is why he should have been strung up...plain and simple...well, at least for some...
But he was indicted for being a liar and a dirtbag: no different than any other liar or dirtbag except his lies and his dirt cost people money. That's what his conviction was based on.
Not quite. Why don't you try being CEO of a hospital and making a decision about how much money goes into research and how much money goes into practical application and grapple with how many lives that saves?
come on, now, it's not that hard...a CEO simply delegates and bitches when it doesn't get done...when a problem happens, they blame the blind followers, oops, I mean employees...you push some paper, read some reports written by others, and take credit when the company does well...
Why don't you try being CEO of my company (we measure employee satisfcation and performance) and know that if a single piece of bad information gets out of this office someone might be unjustly fired, or someone might be unjustly compensated at the cost of another?
oh my...do you trust your employees...? or do you research each finding or report they deliver...? I really don't understand what your company does...do you read the surveys and report it back to the company while insuring they stay anonymus...? tough stuff...I've filled that crap out and often wondered what happend to it...I always thought they flushed it...and now I find out they outsource the reading for these things...what a waste...
news flash: if the Manager at Burger King doesn't insure the employees get the food out fresh and on time, they will be fired...so, a CEO and a BK manager pretty much do the same thing...However, being manager at Burger King is harder...
But he was indicted for being a liar and a dirtbag: no different than any other liar or dirtbag except his lies and his dirt cost people money. That's what his conviction was based on.
come on, now, it's not that hard...a CEO simply delegates and bitches when it doesn't get done...when a problem happens, they blame the blind followers, oops, I mean employees...you push some paper, read some reports written by others, and take credit when the company does well...
Wow. I've been running companies for nearly 10 years now and I can't remember the last time I bitched when something didn't get done, blamed any "blind followers", or pushed a paper. I certainly have delegated. I certainly have read a lot of reports. I've also worked. I've also written lots of reports. I've also given people jobs, raises and bonuses. I've also had to fire people. I've also engineered systems that cut my business's costs by 75%.
oh my...do you trust your employees...?
If they've earned that trust, certainly. If not, certainly not.
or do you research each finding or report they deliver...?
If I'm going to use those findings and reports to make decisions, definitely.
I really don't understand what your company does...do you read the surveys and report it back to the company while insuring they stay anonymus...?
Yes.
tough stuff...I've filled that crap out and often wondered what happend to it...I always thought they flushed it...and now I find out they outsource the reading for these things...what a waste...
They "outsource" it for lots of good reasons. First, you already mentioned one: anonymity. Second, we can do it cheaper than they can. Third, we have systems in place to produce reports and measure indices that they don't know how to produce. Fourth, we have an immense amount of experience and knowledge on how to conduct these surveys that they do not have.
news flash: if the Manager at Burger King doesn't insure the employees get the food out fresh and on time, they will be fired...so, a CEO and a BK manager pretty much do the same thing...
Just because they both have responsibilities, you assume they "do the same thing"? That's ridiculous. You might as well suggest that being a father is no different than be a BK manager.
However, being manager at Burger King is harder...
Ok.
yes and I don't...
Yet I don't just "sit back and get big cash". If I just sat back, that cash would dry up quite quickly. But if you want to hold on to unreasonable generalizations because that's easier than actually thinking about something, knock yourself out.
um...Felon...you forgot it again....
I haven't forgotten his conviction. I haven't forgotten those who weren't convicted either.
Wow. I've been running companies for nearly 10 years now and I can't remember the last time I bitched when something didn't get done, blamed any "blind followers", or pushed a paper. I certainly have delegated. I certainly have read a lot of reports. I've also worked. I've also written lots of reports. I've also given people jobs, raises and bonuses. I've also had to fire people. I've also engineered systems that cut my business's costs by 75%.
so does a burger king manager...they delegate, read and write reports, fire and hire, and look to cut costs...the similarities are eery...
give him or her a week, I bet they would just fine....
I'll take that bet. Find me the next burger shack manager you see and send him or her on over. I'll bet you $10,000 that he or she can't answer even the most basic questions or understand the most basic concepts after 5 days.
I'll take that bet. Find me the next burger shack manager you see and send him or her on over. I'll bet you $10,000 that he or she can't answer even the most basic questions or understand the most basic concepts after 5 days.
wow, you took "bet" for it's literal meaning...intriguing to say the least...my use of the term was figurative based on the fact gambling is illegal in the state of North Carolina...however, since you are a CEO, laws don't apply to you...
anyhoo...could you define the terms...such as "basic questions", would the include:
"what time is lunch?"
"who makes copies for you?"
"where's the coffee?"
and by "basic concepts", would that include:
"keep date private?"
"keep costs down?"
"what time do I nap?"
wow, you took "bet" for it's literal meaning...intriguing to say the least...my use of the term was figurative based on the fact gambling is illegal in the state of North Carolina...however, since you are a CEO, laws don't apply to you...
:rolleyes:
anyhoo...could you define the terms...such as "basic questions", would the include:
"what time is lunch?"
"who makes copies for you?"
"where's the coffee?"
and by "basic concepts", would that include:
"keep date private?"
"keep costs down?"
"what time do I nap?"
Basic questions would be the questions I'm asked on a daily basis. None of the above apply since everyone who works for me already knows when lunch is (whenever they want to eat), who makes copies for you (yourself), where's the coffee (in the breakroom).
The questions I'm asked often would include:
- When will the loads and the concomitant response times on our web and database servers justify expansion?
- What questions on this survey are redundant or unnecessary considering the goals of gathering the information?
- How can we best analyze subjective textual responses in an objective fashion?
- Which of the 4 requesting departments should be allowed a new hire when there are only funds available for 2?
- Two projects are over budget and one needs to be cut. Project A has is 15% over budget and has roughly a 75% shot at meeting an updated budget of 50% over the initial projection. Its projected 5 year return on a total investment of $150,000 is 200%. Project B is is 50% over budget and has roughly a 30% shot at meeting an updated budget of 75% over the initial budget. Its projected 5 year return on a total investment of $350,000 is 350% over the initial budget. Which should be cut?
- One of our clients has asked for a fully integrated performance and talent review suite. The cost of implementation will be $250,000 but the highest price we could reasonably charge is $75,000. Should we develop this application?
- Two of my direct reports who were sleeping together have since broken up and are now spreading nasty rumors about each other and actively avoid each other though their jobs require them to communicate often. I can't afford to lose either one, but I need them to work together. I've talked to both numerous times, but the behavior isn't changing. What can I do? (this one happened about 20 minutes ago!)
The basic concepts would include:
- Management
- Capacity planning
- System design and analysis
- Pyschometrics
Basic questions would be the questions I'm asked on a daily basis. None of the above apply since everyone who works for me already knows when lunch is (whenever they want to eat), who makes copies for you (yourself), where's the coffee (in the breakroom).
- What questions on this survey are redundant or unnecessary considering the goals of gathering the information?
I know these surveys have control questions...for example, question 3 may be: Do you enjoy your job? Yes or No, then question 13 will be: Do you dislike your job? Yes or No...thus asking the same thing only differently...
However the answer depends on the survey...and what the information the client wants to extract...
- How can we best analyze subjective textual responses in an objective fashion?
I would have to gather some more data, but I would ask the following:
* What patterns and common themes emerge in responses dealing with specific items? How do these patterns (or lack thereof) help to illuminate the broader study question(s)?
* Are there any deviations from these patterns? If yes, are there any factors that might explain these atypical responses?
* What interesting stories emerge from the responses? How can these stories help to illuminate the broader study question(s)?
* Do any of these patterns or findings suggest that additional data may need to be collected? Do any of the study questions need to be revised?
* Do the patterns that emerge corroborate the findings of any corresponding qualitative analyses that have been conducted? If not, what might explain these discrepancies?
- Which of the 4 requesting departments should be allowed a new hire when there are only funds available for 2?
It depends on current need, while everyone want help in doing their job, only those departments who really need a new hire would be considered...I would look at the costs involved, as well as the other varibles, prior to making a final decision...
- Two projects are over budget and one needs to be cut. Project A has is 15% over budget and has roughly a 75% shot at meeting an updated budget of 50% over the initial projection. Its projected 5 year return on a total investment of $150,000 is 200%. Project B is is 50% over budget and has roughly a 30% shot at meeting an updated budget of 75% over the initial budget. Its projected 5 year return on a total investment of $350,000 is 350% over the initial budget. Which should be cut?
easy...look to cut costs elsewhere..both have potential...can you look to cut waste prior to cutting programs...? or go will project (A), while would be a safer option, then when that pays off, reinvest the profits into project (B)...
- One of our clients has asked for a fully integrated performance and talent review suite. The cost of implementation will be $250,000 but the highest price we could reasonably charge is $75,000. Should we develop this application?
It depends. Can you crossmarket this program, will other companies be interested in something like this...if not, rework a deal with the client or move on...
- Two of my direct reports who were sleeping together have since broken up and are now spreading nasty rumors about each other and actively avoid each other though their jobs require them to communicate often. I can't afford to lose either one, but I need them to work together. I've talked to both numerous times, but the behavior isn't changing. What can I do? (this one happened about 20 minutes ago!)
did you see the Office last night, Conflict Resolution...Win, Win, Win...or re-think your stance on "not being able to afford to lose either"...is the current situation effecting profits and business...? if so, you must take action...if not, continue to assess and address...or pull them both in and address their actions on the job only...don't even mention the relationship outside the office...and start knocking heads together...
easy, when they effect response times and profits...however, the expansion must justfy the costs...I would recommend looking into Linux
:rolleyes:
First we already use Linux...no Windows here (at least on the server side).
Secondly, "when they effect response times and profits" is a ridiculously empty answer. Just because response times fluctuate, it doesn't mean profits change. Furthermore, even if profits do decrease, that decrease may not justify the expense of expansion. Furthermore, the response times fluctuation may not be a permanent issue, or may not even be hardware related.
I know these surveys have control questions...for example, question 3 may be: Do you enjoy your job? Yes or No, then question 13 will be: Do you dislike your job? Yes or No...thus asking the same thing only differently...
It's never that easy. How about these for redundant questions:
FIND THE TWO REDUNDANT QUESTIONS:
"My manager provides insightful feedback about my performance"
"The review process enables my manager to provide valuable information about my skills"
"I feel adequately informed about my manager's perceptions regarding my accomplishments and areas for development"
However the answer depends on the survey...and what the information the client wants to extract...
That is quite true.
I would have to gather some more data, but I would ask the following:
* What patterns and common themes emerge in responses dealing with specific items? How do these patterns (or lack thereof) help to illuminate the broader study question(s)?
You just repeated the client's question. He wants to know how, not what.
* Are there any deviations from these patterns? If yes, are there any factors that might explain these atypical responses?
Again, that's what the client seeks to find. He wants your burger king manager tell him how to find those deviations objectively.
* What interesting stories emerge from the responses? How can these stories help to illuminate the broader study question(s)?
You just repeated the client's question. He wants to know how, not what.
* Do any of these patterns or findings suggest that additional data may need to be collected? Do any of the study questions need to be revised?
Again, that's a concern of the client. He wants to know how do uncover those "suggestions".
* Do the patterns that emerge corroborate the findings of any corresponding qualitative analyses that have been conducted? If not, what might explain these discrepancies?
Again, how do you find those "patterns" and "corrobrations".
only then could I formulate an answer...
But the answer to the question I posed is how you arrive at those questions.
It depends on current need, while everyone want help in doing their job, only those departments who really need a new hire would be considered...I would look at the costs involved, as well as the other varibles, prior to making a final decision...
All 4 departments need a new person. Otherwise, they wouldn't be requesting one. It would certainly be wise to "look at the costs involved". I would also hope your "other variables" would include the revenues to be derived.
easy...look to cut costs elsewhere..both have potential...can you look to cut waste prior to cutting programs...? or go will project (A), while would be a safer option, then when that pays off, reinvest the profits into project (B)...
That's a good answer, except you do the reverse (go with B and reinvest in A).
It depends. Can you crossmarket this program, will other companies be interested in something like this...if not, rework a deal with the client or move on...
That's correct.
did you see the Office last night, Conflict Resolution...Win, Win, Win...or re-think your stance on "not being able to afford to lose either"...is the current situation effecting profits and business...? if so, you must take action...if not, continue to assess and address...or pull them both in and address their actions on the job only...don't even mention the relationship outside the office...and start knocking heads together...
Actually you do the reverse -- get everything out on the table. I just met with both together and we didn't mention "profits" or "business".
I'm a big fan of Pyschomentrics...crunching subjective data and creating tests that hopefully have some validity is a challange...
It's tough work. Not something the average burger king manager excels at.
Comments
Reason: man's ability to think logically.
You don't understand how reason relates to duping? Interesting.
Let's run through some examples.
You asked if a person who works for a paycheck is greedy. Since greed is the sacrifice of reason for money, there are conditions under which a person who works for a paycheck can be greedy. For example, if the person expects the value of that paycheck to exceed the value of his labor, that person becomes unreasonable and therefore greedy. Why? Because someone else must then provide the gap between the value of that paycheck and the value of that labor. And since the other person involved may simply refuse or be rendered unable to fill that gap, the paycheck cannot be expected. Similarly, if a person expects their paycheck to be provided regardless of outside factors or the value of their labor, that person is also unreasonable since the fact remains that a paycheck requires someone to pay it and possession of a value to back that check.
Similarly, an investor who invests on nothing more than a feeling of confidence is unreasonable (assuming that they want a return on that investment). A feeling of confidence is not related to the performance of a stock, unless the stock price is based on nothing more than the combined confidence of thousands of investors. Confidence cannot create profit.
A resonable investor, for example, would never have invested in Enron. Reasonable investors consider products, markets and direction long before they consider last quarter's earnings ratio. Enron's products were largely vapor. Their market was slight and they had little to no competitve advantage within that space. Their direction was haphazard and often contradictory. Furthermore, Enron's financials weren't good. Their quarterly increases looked great and were swallowed by the analyst community, but the numbers themselves never added up. Their ratios were terrible and their overall liabilities kept rising. They were obviously using profit reserves to fund their quarterly growth. But none of that mattered as long as the quarterly numbers were good and the stock price kept rising.
When you boil everything down, Enron was in the confidence business and everything that went on reflected that. Their business was nothing more than a fucking church. "Have faith, don't ask questions" should have been their motto. And just like Jim Jones wasn't the only fool at Jonestown, Ken Lay wasn't the only fool at Enron. But people bought into his bullshit lock, stock, and barrel. And it takes two to tango in that kind of relationship. This isn't a mugger holding a gun to your head. This is a salesman that allows you to hold onto your wallet. But if you're going to pay a man to turn iron into gold, don't be surprised when you find out he's nothing more than a mystic.
Other companies continue to operate this way. An excellent example is Overstock.com. They're guilty of many of the same "crimes", but no one cares yet because the company is still operating, employing people, and making short and long sellers money. Microsoft has also done many of the same things as Enron and again, no one is going after Bill Gates or Steve Balmer.
Was Ken Lay a liar? Hell yes. Was Ken Lay a dirtbag? Of course. But if you're going to string him up you need to string up every liar and dirtbag in town. And if you're going to go after those who profited from Enron's malfaesance, why aren't you going after the employees whose salaries were paid for by that malfeasance?
But the Enron situation stems from a problem with society, not just a problem with one moron.
Much of it, yes. And for any act of deceipt to work, one must lie and one must believe. I'd prefer to tackle both parts of that equation, rather than just one.
Again, you can't trace a single dollar that was stolen. All you can point to is stock owned by the market that decreased in value. A decrease in the value of a stock isn't theft since you don't own the value of a stock, you only own a claim on that value. People are still free to claim that value. The problem is that the value is $0.
I'm certainly not suggesting anyone abandon the planet. I'm suggesting people abandon what is destroying that planet: faith.
Please stop it. I'm not saying what Lay did is OK. It was wrong. But it was not the only wrong committed. It's not a matter of Lay being bad or the employees/investors/media/etc being bad. It's both.
Faith, both good and bad, is what is destroying this world my friend. The rejection of faith is the only thing that will save it.
You go ahead and abandon faith.. hope that works for ya.
again with the subjective terms...nice change to "unreasonable"...
let me ask...who determines the "value" of a persons job...today, for example, as part of my job duties and requirements, I had to explain to a mother her child fell on the Autistic Spectrum...perhaps one of the hardest things I've ever done...what's that worth...? for the record, I expect nothing more or less for my days work, but I know for sure that not many people in this world would want that job...however, I have to wonder should I get more for that...?
how about a CEO...what the does that person do that's worth more that anyone else..they delegate, tell others what to do, and sit back and get big cash...they do pretty much the same thing a manager of Burger King does, without the cash...
as for Jim Jones...my response: what the hell are you talking about know...
I have no idea what Overstock does, nor do I care...
in your last paragraph you say something about Lay being a liar and dirtbag...you forgot Felon...that is why he should have been strung up...plain and simple...well, at least for some...
Ummm....so far it has worked quite well for me.
I use both terms. A "reasonable" action is one consistent with logic. An "unreasonable" action is one in violation of logic.
It's worth whatever the mother was willing to pay for it, minus whatever costs went into the effort.
Not quite. Why don't you try being CEO of a hospital and making a decision about how much money goes into research and how much money goes into practical application and grapple with how many lives that saves?
Why don't you try being CEO of my company (we measure employee satisfcation and performance) and know that if a single piece of bad information gets out of this office someone might be unjustly fired, or someone might be unjustly compensated at the cost of another?
You think CEOs just "sit back and get big cash"??? Tell me, what do you think of those who accuse the poor of being "lazy and stupid"?
Jim Jones was a man who sold faith. His followers bought it.
Ken Lay was a man who sold faith. His employees and investors bought it.
Yet when they collapse and people lose their jobs in scandal, then you will.
But he was indicted for being a liar and a dirtbag: no different than any other liar or dirtbag except his lies and his dirt cost people money. That's what his conviction was based on.
come on, now, it's not that hard...a CEO simply delegates and bitches when it doesn't get done...when a problem happens, they blame the blind followers, oops, I mean employees...you push some paper, read some reports written by others, and take credit when the company does well...
oh my...do you trust your employees...? or do you research each finding or report they deliver...? I really don't understand what your company does...do you read the surveys and report it back to the company while insuring they stay anonymus...? tough stuff...I've filled that crap out and often wondered what happend to it...I always thought they flushed it...and now I find out they outsource the reading for these things...what a waste...
news flash: if the Manager at Burger King doesn't insure the employees get the food out fresh and on time, they will be fired...so, a CEO and a BK manager pretty much do the same thing...However, being manager at Burger King is harder...
yes and I don't...
um...Felon...you forgot it again....
Wow. I've been running companies for nearly 10 years now and I can't remember the last time I bitched when something didn't get done, blamed any "blind followers", or pushed a paper. I certainly have delegated. I certainly have read a lot of reports. I've also worked. I've also written lots of reports. I've also given people jobs, raises and bonuses. I've also had to fire people. I've also engineered systems that cut my business's costs by 75%.
If they've earned that trust, certainly. If not, certainly not.
If I'm going to use those findings and reports to make decisions, definitely.
Yes.
They "outsource" it for lots of good reasons. First, you already mentioned one: anonymity. Second, we can do it cheaper than they can. Third, we have systems in place to produce reports and measure indices that they don't know how to produce. Fourth, we have an immense amount of experience and knowledge on how to conduct these surveys that they do not have.
Just because they both have responsibilities, you assume they "do the same thing"? That's ridiculous. You might as well suggest that being a father is no different than be a BK manager.
Ok.
Yet I don't just "sit back and get big cash". If I just sat back, that cash would dry up quite quickly. But if you want to hold on to unreasonable generalizations because that's easier than actually thinking about something, knock yourself out.
I haven't forgotten his conviction. I haven't forgotten those who weren't convicted either.
so does a burger king manager...they delegate, read and write reports, fire and hire, and look to cut costs...the similarities are eery...
The difference is that I could do the burger king manager's job tomorrow. The burger king manager would have no idea how to do mine.
give him or her a week, I bet they would just fine....
I'll take that bet. Find me the next burger shack manager you see and send him or her on over. I'll bet you $10,000 that he or she can't answer even the most basic questions or understand the most basic concepts after 5 days.
wow, you took "bet" for it's literal meaning...intriguing to say the least...my use of the term was figurative based on the fact gambling is illegal in the state of North Carolina...however, since you are a CEO, laws don't apply to you...
anyhoo...could you define the terms...such as "basic questions", would the include:
"what time is lunch?"
"who makes copies for you?"
"where's the coffee?"
and by "basic concepts", would that include:
"keep date private?"
"keep costs down?"
"what time do I nap?"
:rolleyes:
Basic questions would be the questions I'm asked on a daily basis. None of the above apply since everyone who works for me already knows when lunch is (whenever they want to eat), who makes copies for you (yourself), where's the coffee (in the breakroom).
The questions I'm asked often would include:
- When will the loads and the concomitant response times on our web and database servers justify expansion?
- What questions on this survey are redundant or unnecessary considering the goals of gathering the information?
- How can we best analyze subjective textual responses in an objective fashion?
- Which of the 4 requesting departments should be allowed a new hire when there are only funds available for 2?
- Two projects are over budget and one needs to be cut. Project A has is 15% over budget and has roughly a 75% shot at meeting an updated budget of 50% over the initial projection. Its projected 5 year return on a total investment of $150,000 is 200%. Project B is is 50% over budget and has roughly a 30% shot at meeting an updated budget of 75% over the initial budget. Its projected 5 year return on a total investment of $350,000 is 350% over the initial budget. Which should be cut?
- One of our clients has asked for a fully integrated performance and talent review suite. The cost of implementation will be $250,000 but the highest price we could reasonably charge is $75,000. Should we develop this application?
- Two of my direct reports who were sleeping together have since broken up and are now spreading nasty rumors about each other and actively avoid each other though their jobs require them to communicate often. I can't afford to lose either one, but I need them to work together. I've talked to both numerous times, but the behavior isn't changing. What can I do? (this one happened about 20 minutes ago!)
The basic concepts would include:
- Management
- Capacity planning
- System design and analysis
- Pyschometrics
easy, when they effect response times and profits...however, the expansion must justfy the costs...I would recommend looking into Linux
I know these surveys have control questions...for example, question 3 may be: Do you enjoy your job? Yes or No, then question 13 will be: Do you dislike your job? Yes or No...thus asking the same thing only differently...
However the answer depends on the survey...and what the information the client wants to extract...
I would have to gather some more data, but I would ask the following:
* What patterns and common themes emerge in responses dealing with specific items? How do these patterns (or lack thereof) help to illuminate the broader study question(s)?
* Are there any deviations from these patterns? If yes, are there any factors that might explain these atypical responses?
* What interesting stories emerge from the responses? How can these stories help to illuminate the broader study question(s)?
* Do any of these patterns or findings suggest that additional data may need to be collected? Do any of the study questions need to be revised?
* Do the patterns that emerge corroborate the findings of any corresponding qualitative analyses that have been conducted? If not, what might explain these discrepancies?
only then could I formulate an answer...
It depends on current need, while everyone want help in doing their job, only those departments who really need a new hire would be considered...I would look at the costs involved, as well as the other varibles, prior to making a final decision...
easy...look to cut costs elsewhere..both have potential...can you look to cut waste prior to cutting programs...? or go will project (A), while would be a safer option, then when that pays off, reinvest the profits into project (B)...
It depends. Can you crossmarket this program, will other companies be interested in something like this...if not, rework a deal with the client or move on...
did you see the Office last night, Conflict Resolution...Win, Win, Win...or re-think your stance on "not being able to afford to lose either"...is the current situation effecting profits and business...? if so, you must take action...if not, continue to assess and address...or pull them both in and address their actions on the job only...don't even mention the relationship outside the office...and start knocking heads together...
I'm a big fan of Pyschomentrics...crunching subjective data and creating tests that hopefully have some validity is a challange...
:rolleyes:
First we already use Linux...no Windows here (at least on the server side).
Secondly, "when they effect response times and profits" is a ridiculously empty answer. Just because response times fluctuate, it doesn't mean profits change. Furthermore, even if profits do decrease, that decrease may not justify the expense of expansion. Furthermore, the response times fluctuation may not be a permanent issue, or may not even be hardware related.
It's never that easy. How about these for redundant questions:
FIND THE TWO REDUNDANT QUESTIONS:
"My manager provides insightful feedback about my performance"
"The review process enables my manager to provide valuable information about my skills"
"I feel adequately informed about my manager's perceptions regarding my accomplishments and areas for development"
That is quite true.
You just repeated the client's question. He wants to know how, not what.
Again, that's what the client seeks to find. He wants your burger king manager tell him how to find those deviations objectively.
You just repeated the client's question. He wants to know how, not what.
Again, that's a concern of the client. He wants to know how do uncover those "suggestions".
Again, how do you find those "patterns" and "corrobrations".
But the answer to the question I posed is how you arrive at those questions.
All 4 departments need a new person. Otherwise, they wouldn't be requesting one. It would certainly be wise to "look at the costs involved". I would also hope your "other variables" would include the revenues to be derived.
That's a good answer, except you do the reverse (go with B and reinvest in A).
That's correct.
Actually you do the reverse -- get everything out on the table. I just met with both together and we didn't mention "profits" or "business".
It's tough work. Not something the average burger king manager excels at.
All things considered, good answers.
aw, shucks, thanks....:o
OK, this is all a scam now for sure.