The Thoughts on Disability thread

13

Comments

  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    I think there's several aspects to people's attitude to disabled.

    one is unfamiliarity. in the same way it can happen with ethnicity. I grew up in a small town in France, middle class, church school :rolleyes:..very little contact with anyone non-white..I saw how that bread racism..simply because most people are afraid of 'difference'..now, having spent the last 10 years in england/London, I find it weird when I go somewhere where hardly anyone is non-white.. the uniformity rather than the diversity became strange.

    with disability, there's the fact that it's both a small minority, some, like deafness or mental difficulties for example, not obvious from a distance so lots of time you won't notice and the fact that many disabilities, unlike ethicity/sex/religion, for practical reasons actually means you cannot socialise in the same way. e.g. people in wheelchairs are rare in the first place, but because, as you can testify Mark, transport is very complicated for them, it's even rarer for mobile people to come into contact with them in everyday life, making them seemingly rarer. then there's the disabilities that make communication difficult, like deafness or mental impairments.

    the other aspect of people's attitude to disabled is that one is not sure how to act.
    what I mean is that there ARE practical differences to someone with a disability, at least a physical one...it can't just be ignored completely.
    and you can never be sure what the disabled person wants: should you help out, risking to be patronising because you're offering help that is not needed, or wait to be asked to help, risking to appear insensitive?
    that makes people uncomfortable, because they don't know what they should do.

    to go back to the original post quote..I don't think the eulogies were in any way offensive. what those people meant is that they did not consider that person DIS-abled, and they did not think of him by his difference.
    it is in my opinion more telling of the writer's attitude that he is offended by it.

    I always ASSUME people are going to treat me the same as everyone else; the fact I'm foreigner, or a woman, never entering my mind that it would mean I'd be treated differently.
    if I do get treated differently though, THEN I'll throw a fit ;), but I'm not going to be in people's face about it beforehand.

    that's why I don't like activist feminists...or many minority activists.
    yes there's discriminations that need to be fought...but you don't do that by getting into people's face all the time, it only antagonises them...if you insist on being defined by your difference, that's the only thing people will see...Some people like to pose themselves as victims, moaning about their discrimination before it even happens.. well, that might make people not voice their opinion but it won't change, on the contrary.

    I just know I TRY (yeah, I'm human, I fuck up ;)) to treat everyone the same, the way I'd like to be treated.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Nondisabled Americans do not understand disabled ones.

    I disagree because not all disabled people think alike, and they would not all react in the same way to such comments. I know a guy in a wheelchair who makes fun of himself and other disabled people all the time...he doesn't let himself feel burdened by it. I also have known other disabled people who fly off the handle about every little comment made towards the disabled. It all depends on the person.
  • given2fly78
    given2fly78 Posts: 404
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    Excuse the ignorance but I'm presuming this was a very sudden change? If so, that is surely the most difficult thing to deal with as not only is there a before and after, but that there is no time to adjust before you're in the thick of it.

    I hope he's doing ok!

    Cheers,
    Steve

    Yes, sudden. Happened in a blink of an eye. But grateful every day he's around. He has 3 more unruptured aneurysms so he's a "ticking time bomb" but each day is a blessing.

    But, never the less, he's disabled from the aneurysm. He can no longer work, he is not physically able to do many things. He has a minimal short term memory, he can't keep track of money, has a hard time with math, gets blinding headaches, has a very different personality, sometimes can't get words out, has a hard time doing everyday things, gets tired very easy. And when he gets tired, he gets goofy and a kind of blank stare - a "brain damage" look to him. It's bizarre. A change. Different. Difficult at times, but in the big picture......we're so fortunate to have him here.

    But it's a struggle too. And hard for me to see how people treat him too. He's still the same person. He still has feelings. Sometimes he knows he's different. He realizes people treat him different. And that sucks. Especially when it's from his friends and mostly, family. Particulary my mom. Who has a gift for being especially condencending, but she says "helpful" or "motivating". Ewww!

    So I'm especially sensitive to this subject. And I tend to be very compassionate to disabled people. Not in an overtly fall-all-over myself way. But deep down, I hope for equality and happiness. And the abilty to overcome the dolts out there who don't understand that disabled people are just like everyone else.

    And in some way, I have a special affection for people with things like aspergers, Autism, things like that. Who have the ability to live a simple life, know no difference, are truly special and blessed with gifts that people like myself will never know. Who love blindly, show their feelings with no care in the world and I hope will be able to overcome their disablities and be able to not have any stigma in this world. People whom I have met with autism or aspergers have always been the most kind, caring, loving, carefree individuals not hindered by silly "little" problems. And that to me has been the most uplifting feeling in the world.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. "
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

    I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Thanks for your thoughts everyone... keep em coming. I've just opened a can of grog, so my thoughts might become illegible in not too long, just to warn you...
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • given2fly78
    given2fly78 Posts: 404
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    I've wanted to do this for quite a while; start a thread where we discuss our thoughts and ideas on the big D word. I thought I'd start us off with this, from No Pity by Joseph P. Shapiro:

    Nondisabled Americans do not understand disabled ones.
    That was clear at the memorial service for Timothy Cook, when longtime friends got up to pay him heartfelt tribute. "He never seemed disabled to me," said one. "He was the least disabled person I ever met," pronounced another. It was the highest praise these nondisabled friends could think to give a disabled attorney who, at thirty-eight years old, had won landmark disability rights cases, including one to force public transit systems to equip their buses with wheelchair lifts. But more than a few heads in the crowded chapel bowed with an uneasy embarrassment at the supposed compliment. It was as if someone had tried to compliment a black man by saying, "You're the least black person I ever met," as false as telling a Jew, "I never think of you as Jewish," as clumsy as seeking to flatter a woman with "You don't act like a woman."


    I liked this, because I get comments such as these on most days.

    Maybe they meant that they don't see him as a disabled person? Just like, I'm more than a white female. I wouldn't want to be catagorized by what I look like, but what I am deep down inside or what I do. Not just what shows on the outside.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. "
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

    I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    given2fly78 wrote:
    Maybe they meant that they don't see him as a disabled person? Just like, I'm more than a white female. I wouldn't want to be catagorized by what I look like, but what I am deep down inside or what I do. Not just what shows on the outside.

    Yep. I think you and Pegasus are both right about that.

    But I just think the language we use is interesting.

    I myself don't see anything harmful in such comments either.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Sonja_S
    Sonja_S Vienna Posts: 444
    I did some marketing consultant work a few months back. I met up with the guy I worked for to go to a meeting with someone from an organisation providing service and info to disabled people in terms of where to have a new car converted to be wheelchair-friendly and stuff like that. Before we went in he said that our contact there had an accident when jumping into a pool drunk after graduation and was in a wheelchair since then 'but he seems to know what he's doing'. I was totally dumbfounded after this statement, but after reading this thread it seems as if it's unfortunately not just one idiot.

    Apparently his injury must have been similar to the one portrayed in Friday Night Lights, a spine injury not involving anything having remotely to do with the brain. The guy could have my wannabe-boss for breakfast regarding business (and was way easier to look at :D) which makes me hope he saw right through him and sent his sorry ass to hell after I quit.
    You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
    They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Sonja_S wrote:
    I did some marketing consultant work a few months back. I met up with the guy I worked for to go to a meeting with someone from an organisation providing service and info to disabled people in terms of where to have a new car converted to be wheelchair-friendly and stuff like that. Before we went in he said that our contact there had an accident when jumping into a pool drunk after graduation and was in a wheelchair since then 'but he seems to know what he's doing'. I was totally dumbfounded after this statement, but after reading this thread it seems as if it's unfortunately not just one idiot.

    Apparently his injury must have been similar to the one portrayed in Friday Night Lights, a spine injury not involving anything having remotely to do with the brain. The guy could have my wannabe-boss for breakfast regarding business (and was way easier to look at :D) which makes me hope he saw right through him and sent his sorry ass to hell after I quit.

    Some good things there... thanks Sonja
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    it's weird how some people seem to equate physical disability with mental deficiency, speaking slowly to someone in a wheelchair (or speaking to the accompanying person instead of them)
    the very same people tend to do that with foreign people too..like because someone doesn't speak good English they're stupid :rolleyes:
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Pegasus wrote:
    it's weird how some people seem to equate physical disability with mental deficiency, speaking slowly to someone in a wheelchair (or speaking to the accompanying person instead of them)
    the very same people tend to do that with foreign people too..like because someone doesn't speak good English they're stupid :rolleyes:

    Yes yes *nod nod* I get that...
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • wolfbear
    wolfbear Posts: 3,965
    My dad was "disabled" (although anything but!), so I grew up with both sides. He was in crutches when he married my mom and they had me, so I never knew him any other way. I would see the way people who didn't know him treat him differently, but he always handled it with such ease I never thought too much about it. Once I remember I had a friend from high school over and she was so mad because I hadn't warned her. I could see her point because she'd been embarrassed when she asked what had happened, but it just never occurred to me to tell her. :)
    "I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    wolfbear wrote:
    My dad was "disabled" (although anything but!), so I grew up with both sides. He was in crutches when he married my mom and they had me, so I never knew him any other way. I would see the way people who didn't know him treat him differently, but he always handled it with such ease I never thought too much about it. Once I remember I had a friend from high school over and she was so mad because I hadn't warned her. I could see her point because she'd been embarrassed when she asked what had happened, but it just never occurred to me to tell her. :)

    When my ex wife told her best friend she was marrying me, the bitch got really mad..... said what are you doing? How irresponsible etc...... Fuck knows why...... just because I was disabled :rolleyes: People have weird attitudes.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • wolfbear
    wolfbear Posts: 3,965
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    When my ex wife told her best friend she was marrying me, the bitch got really mad..... said what are you doing? How irresponsible etc...... Fuck knows why...... just because I was disabled :rolleyes: People have weird attitudes.
    I remember my mom and dad telling me that her parents were concerned when they decided to get married. They said things like are you sure he can support you (this was back in the 50's btw). Well, they ended up loving my dad and siding with him on everything! haha I think people that have difficulties in general are so used to overcoming them they just tend to be stronger and more well rounded. ;) I know you've gone through another tough time, but I know you'll come shining! :)
    "I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    wolfbear wrote:
    I remember my mom and dad telling me that her parents were concerned when they decided to get married. They said things like are you sure he can support you (this was back in the 50's btw). Well, they ended up loving my dad and siding with him on everything! haha I think people that have difficulties in general are so used to overcoming them they just tend to be stronger and more well rounded. ;) I know you've gone through another tough time, but I know you'll come shining! :)

    Thankyou...... means a lot, really :)
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    When my ex wife told her best friend she was marrying me, the bitch got really mad..... said what are you doing? How irresponsible etc...... Fuck knows why...... just because I was disabled :rolleyes: People have weird attitudes.
    that shows how much of a 'friend' she was :mad:

    raising some concerns, because it does have problems that one might not consider and as a friend you should try to make sure people are not blinded to them, it's one thing.. but get mad :confused: (nothing to do with disability, just any relationship..my, older, sister is hooking up with some guy right now I'm not keen on.. racist fuckhead from the only time I met him ..her ex-husband wasn't the smartest guy around but he's a nice guy overall..but what can I do? it's not MY business in the end..as long as he doesn't touch her..then he's dead!)
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Pegasus wrote:
    that shows how much of a 'friend' she was :mad:

    raising some concerns, because it does have problems that one might not consider and as a friend you should try to make sure people are not blinded to them, it's one thing.. but get mad :confused: (nothing to do with disability, just any relationship..my, older, sister is hooking up with some guy right now I'm not keen on.. racist fuckhead from the only time I met him ..her ex-husband wasn't the smartest guy around but he's a nice guy overall..but what can I do? it's not MY business in the end..as long as he doesn't touch her..then he's dead!)

    It's difficult isn't it.... as far as I know though, she was only worried becaue she felt I couldn't look after her being in a wheelchair..
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    It's difficult isn't it.... as far as I know though, she was only worried becaue she felt I couldn't look after her being in a wheelchair..
    what millennium does she lives in?
    a woman, well anyone, needs emotional support, not physical one!
    I've met Nazreen, she can take care of herself! (and if she couldn't, that's her own fault not yours!)
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Pegasus wrote:
    what millennium does she lives in?
    a woman, well anyone, needs emotional support, not physical one!
    I've met Nazreen, she can take care of herself! (and if she couldn't, that's her own fault not yours!)

    Yeah.. I remember us both meeting you. :) 'twas a good night... ah well, yeah she can look after herself..... and so can I.....
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Yeah.. I remember us both meeting you. :) 'twas a good night... ah well, yeah she can look after herself..... and so can I.....
    I know you can ;)
    and gosh did I get pissed that night! still not sure how I made it home in one piece as I cycled home!! :eek:
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Pegasus wrote:
    I know you can ;)
    and gosh did I get pissed that night! still not sure how I made it home in one piece as I cycled home!! :eek:

    I'm not sure.... there was a point where we lost touch... not sure what happened at the end of the night.... I think Naz wanted to leave early..... man I wish I hadn't bowed now..... All you guys on the Pit have proved to be more loyal.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison

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