A question about Jesus.
Comments
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catefrances wrote:is that free choice being made without any outside influence and without bias? if not, then tis hardly free choice is it?"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!0 -
angelica wrote:It sounds like to you it's not.
not only sounds like it angelica. i KNOW tis not.hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
catefrances wrote:not only sounds like it angelica. i KNOW tis not."The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!0 -
angelica wrote:You and I see things very differently, obviously.
what's differently?
my thinking on free will and choice is that if my will is in opposition to someone else's then all bets are off, cause i am not gonna be able to exercise my free will to get what it is i am seeking because the other person is exercising their free will, which negates mine.
free will works only if all the factors are under your control and life just isnt like that.hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
neither God or Jesus exists!!And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."0 -
in_hiding79 wrote:neither God or Jesus exists!!
can i ask why you think jesus doesnt exist? do you think he ever did?hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
who cares live for the day...vedder solo album should be the talk of the town...jesus is the man that it plain and simple ....thats all folks............ hard sun is great0
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catefrances wrote:what's differently?
my thinking on free will and choice is that if my will is in opposition to someone else's then all bets are off, cause i am not gonna be able to exercise my free will to get what it is i am seeking because the other person is exercising their free will, which negates mine.
free will works only if all the factors are under your control and life just isnt like that.
As for free choice, even if my choices conflict with others, I still make them, freely, whether unconsciously or consciously. To me, freedom is not related to lack to resistance or conflict. If everything were easy and there were no problems or conflict to rise above, the word "freedom" would have no meaning.
To me, freedom has nothing to do with controlling external or life factors. It's the exact opposite. It's about fully surrendering to one's life. It is only by accepting all aspects of one's life unconditionally, including conflicts and resistance, and including others that one chooses to interact with, that one can find the way to rise above such conflicts. By doing so, the drop of water can also experience being the ocean. The cell can also be the body. It's the short-sighted cancer cell that tries to overtake the cell next to it at the expense of the whole system.
There is nothing to be gained by fighting/denying/separating from one's very own life--unless one seeks separation, pain and struggle."The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!0 -
You can't redefine free-willI necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0
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Ahnimus wrote:You can't redefine free-willThis isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0
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deadnothingbetter wrote:what other definitions does free-will have?
There is only one philosophical definition.
Freedom to determine what you "will" independently of physical or divine determinants.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Look, anyone here with a biology degree can tell us that any living thing is basically clockwork. What constitutes a "Living" thing is what we determine to accept as living. We don't think the clouds are alive, though they move. If you break down the components of a single cell, mitochondria, microtubules, etc... what you have is a bunch of non-living gears and pulleys, so to speak. We are "alive" in the sense of a clock powered by solar panels.
It's not that science says "there is no vital life force (Elan Vital)" it simply says "We don't need it to explain life." Science gets by explaining these things without any skyhooks, without souls and other mysteriam.
Anyone of you that wants to put a soul or free-will or the like into the equations is doing it solely for selfish reasons. They are non sequiturs. They beg the question and they offer no further explanation or understanding. The concepts are simply out-of-date off-the-shelf rhetoric.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Ahnimus wrote:Look, anyone here with a biology degree can tell us that any living thing is basically clockwork. What constitutes a "Living" thing is what we determine to accept as living. We don't think the clouds are alive, though they move. If you break down the components of a single cell, mitochondria, microtubules, etc... what you have is a bunch of non-living gears and pulleys, so to speak. We are "alive" in the sense of a clock powered by solar panels.
It's not that science says "there is no vital life force (Elan Vital)" it simply says "We don't need it to explain life." Science gets by explaining these things without any skyhooks, without souls and other mysteriam.
Anyone of you that wants to put a soul or free-will or the like into the equations is doing it solely for selfish reasons. They are non sequiturs. They beg the question and they offer no further explanation or understanding. The concepts are simply out-of-date off-the-shelf rhetoric.This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
Ahnimus wrote:There is only one philosophical definition.
Freedom to determine what you "will" independently of physical or divine determinants.This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
deadnothingbetter wrote:so that's it? we're just basic routing functions in this system we call life?
The most poetic description of what we are, I heard from a scientifically minded pick-up artist. "We are patterns in nature. Like a song."I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Ahnimus wrote:The most poetic description of what we are, I heard from a scientifically minded pick-up artist. "We are patterns in nature. Like a song."This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0
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deadnothingbetter wrote:but that's depressing, man.
Not really.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
What I find depressing is that this goes under the radar. People by enlarge subscribe to the belief in free-will and souls. The consequences are war and hatred and so on.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0
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"I dare be positive no one will ever endeavour to refute these reasonings
otherwise than by altering my definitions, and assigning a different
meaning to the terms of cause, and effect, and necessity, and liberty,
and chance. According to my definitions, necessity makes an essential
part of causation; and consequently liberty, by removing necessity,
removes also causes, and is the very same thing with chance. As chance is
commonly thought to imply a contradiction, and is at least directly
contrary to experience, there are always the same arguments against
liberty or free-will. If any one alters the definitions, I cannot pretend
to argue with him, until I know the meaning he assigns to these terms.
"
A Treatise of Human Nature - Hume, David, 1711-1776
Full TextI necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Ahnimus wrote:Not really.This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0
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