Political Drama: Canadian Coalition of the Centre-Left

Songburst wrote:

This is not good. Hopefully enough elected Liberals cross the floor over this debacle to prevent this from coming to fruition. This is the result of the personal agenda of a few men, and not the will of the voters of Canada.

If the no-confidence vote goes through, the best result would be another election which would ensure the Conservatives a majority government and petty shit like this would be stopped at a time when petty politics should be the last thing on everybody's agenda.

Not so great for the Harper fans...but it's getting that divided against this guy. Harper is the Canadian version of Bush in my eyes, and the US should have done the same long ago.

Does anyone think that an Obama victory might have had some effect on this?

gleemonex wrote:

I, for one, am happy. I voted strategically in my riding, which meant voting Liberal just to try to keep Harper from reaching a majority. In my opinion, Not Harper running the country is better than Harper running the country. A wider range of Canadians are represented by a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition than are represented by a Harper minority.

And an even wider range are represented by a Conservative-Bloc coalition and just imagine the shit-storm that would have occurred if that happened. Harper should just say "fuck it" and watch the mess unfold from the opposition benches. Dion is a joke. Layton is ok - but he's not the everyman that he makes himself out to be. And the Bloc? It's really bad to give veto power over the coalition to the NDP and the Bloc.

The Canadian markets should have held up ok during this global slow-down but now watch them go down the toilet as international investors won't be able to get their money out of Canada fast enough with the NDP and Liberals horrid economic policies.

Songburst wrote:

This is not good. Hopefully enough elected Liberals cross the floor over this debacle to prevent this from coming to fruition. This is the result of the personal agenda of a few men, and not the will of the voters of Canada.

If the no-confidence vote goes through, the best result would be another election which would ensure the Conservatives a majority government and petty shit like this would be stopped at a time when petty politics should be the last thing on everybody's agenda.

I totally agree with what you said. It has gotten to the point where it is no longer even about the fiscal update and just a chance for a power grab. I mean it looks like they are going to have the no-confidence vote no matter what. The whole thing seems like the other parties trying to do a backdoor play around the election results, which they can do, but if you were going to do that, why not mention it during the election.

Plus I really wonder what cabinet post the liberals promised Jack Layton to get him on board, especially since he was pretty outspoken against the liberals and the conservatives in the election. Plus it almost goes without saying that forming an alliance with the block is a terrible idea for every Canadian not living in Quebec.

Here is my letter to the Governor General:

Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.

Governor General of Canada

December 2, 2008

Your Excellency,

I am writing you today, as it seems more and more likely that you are facing a very difficult decision in the coming weeks.

As I and my fellow Canadians watch and wait, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated and I feel helpless. Six weeks ago I cast my vote for the person I felt was most qualified to run our wonderful country. It is a right and an honour to be able to freely cast that vote.

I am raising a family with 3 beautiful daughters. My oldest daughter is 6 years old. During the election campaign, and on election night, I answered all of her questions, and patiently and proudly explained to her about the basics of democracy. In Fact - to help my young daughters understand, we held a mini election in my family. My Wife is now the Prime Minister of the my Household. Now it looks like I have to band with 2 of my daughters and kick my wife out of office.

This brings me to my point. When you are facing the decision of calling another election or ushering in a Government that no one elected, I plead with you to think about my 3 daughters, and the rest of the Canadian public. Ask yourself "how can we explain to the people that their vote does not count"?

I also respectfully ask you to consider the Founding Fathers of our nation, and what they might think about a prospective government that a) Is being governed by a leader who was going to step down facing pressure from his own party b) Is formed with the Bloc Quebecois, whose only reason for being is to tear Canada apart and c) Has three people leading the party, who 6 weeks ago, publicly ran each other down in the election.

Further, if for some reason this coalition Government is placed into power, I request that the new Prime Minister would have to address the nation and explain to us, as our new leader, that our say, our opinion, our rights do not count.

Your Excellency, the events leading to this stage are shameful and deplorable. This does not represent the country I love. This is not the Canada I know. It is now in your hands to help us through this.



Yours respectfully,

reborncareerist wrote:

One more quick point ... The party situation in Canada is not as simple as one right-wing party and everyone else as paragons of progress ... Historically, the Liberals and Conservatives have been centrist, with small leanings left or right depending on whose calling the shots in the party at any given point in time. The NDP are clearly leftist, and the Bloc, while socially progressive, are also rabidly pro-Quebec, at least mildly xenophobic (with regards to the rest of Canada and anyone who deosn't speak French), and soundbyte politicians who thrive on scaring people in Quebec (and other Canadians, apparently) into voting for them and/or supporting their policies.

Admittedly, I am biased. Someone from Quebec might give a more objective assessment of the separatists.

Separatist sucks

This crisis is pretty funny to watch, i don't mind the NDP - Liberals associations or the statu quo, election would be stupid.

MrMerkinball wrote:

Here is my letter to the Governor General:

Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.

Governor General of Canada

December 2, 2008

Your Excellency,

I am writing you today, as it seems more and more likely that you are facing a very difficult decision in the coming weeks.

As I and my fellow Canadians watch and wait, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated and I feel helpless. Six weeks ago I cast my vote for the person I felt was most qualified to run our wonderful country. It is a right and an honour to be able to freely cast that vote.

I am raising a family with 3 beautiful daughters. My oldest daughter is 6 years old. During the election campaign, and on election night, I answered all of her questions, and patiently and proudly explained to her about the basics of democracy. In Fact - to help my young daughters understand, we held a mini election in my family. My Wife is now the Prime Minister of the my Household. Now it looks like I have to band with 2 of my daughters and kick my wife out of office.

This brings me to my point. When you are facing the decision of calling another election or ushering in a Government that no one elected, I plead with you to think about my 3 daughters, and the rest of the Canadian public. Ask yourself "how can we explain to the people that their vote does not count"?

I also respectfully ask you to consider the Founding Fathers of our nation, and what they might think about a prospective government that a) Is being governed by a leader who was going to step down facing pressure from his own party b) Is formed with the Bloc Quebecois, whose only reason for being is to tear Canada apart and c) Has three people leading the party, who 6 weeks ago, publicly ran each other down in the election.

Further, if for some reason this coalition Government is placed into power, I request that the new Prime Minister would have to address the nation and explain to us, as our new leader, that our say, our opinion, our rights do not count.

Your Excellency, the events leading to this stage are shameful and deplorable. This does not represent the country I love. This is not the Canada I know. It is now in your hands to help us through this.



Yours respectfully,

Regardless of this coalition, every Canadian vote does count.

We don't for the Prime Minister. We vote for a Member of Parliament for our local region. The Members of Parliament in Ottawa are unchanged as a result of this coalition. The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.

Nothing that is happening in Ottawa is undemocratic by canadian standards.

teflonsteve wrote:

Regardless of this coalition, every Canadian vote does count.

We don't for the Prime Minister. We vote for a Member of Parliament for our local region. The Members of Parliament in Ottawa are unchanged as a result of this coalition. The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.

Nothing that is happening in Ottawa is undemocratic by canadian standards.

Can a get a hallelujah?

polaris wrote:

so ... another major consideration ...

pm/conservatives put forth an update or whatever that he sets as a confidence motion ie if the vote fails, the gov't falls ...

so ... regardless of whether you like this coalition - if the pm puts out an ideological motion that doesn't serve the constituent - their jobs as elected mps is to vote against it ...

ffwd to after the vote ... we are left with typically one choice ... ANOTHER ELECTION (which no one wants) - so, an alternative to this is that the other 3 parties would like to form a gov't and be given a chance to govern ...

how is this process undemocratic? ... this is all legit ... based on our parliamentary democracy ...

I've been arguing this point all day around the office. Not supporting the Tories in AB is a bitch...
Harper knew full well that this update was not acceptable to the other parties and they would either have to accept it or force another election thru a non-confidence vote...which the other parties could not afford (literally). He had his bluff called, and I think it looks good on him.

Before Tory fans lash out at the Libs and NDP for getting in bed with the Bloc, they should remember this (again from the article I posted above) :


In September 2004, Harper wrote to then-governor general Adrienne Clarkson to argue that she should “consider all your options” if the Liberal minority of Paul Martin was to fall on a confidence vote.

“We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation,” Harper wrote.

Harper co-signed the letter with Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe



It wouldn't surprise me if this is intentional...let the coalition take power thru the worst of the economic crash, wait for them to implode (which they will), and campaign based on the compromised values of the other parties, while blaming the economy on them....and voila! Conservative majority...

teflonsteve wrote:

The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.

Do you actually think a working government would be one whose leader doesn't even think he is fit to be running his own party, and has a large portion of members who don't even want to be part of Canada. To me that is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I think the thing that bugs me the most if these parties wanted to go ahead with this whole coalition thing, no matter what (which it pretty much is now since it seems they are going to call for a vote of non-confidence no matter what happens with the fiscal update), then why not mention it during the election? Instead they waited for the conservatives to form their government and fill the cabinet posts which wasted time and a ton of money (since all those cabinet ministers got raises and I think pension bumps).