Political Drama: Canadian Coalition of the Centre-Left
polaris
Posts: 3,527
For those who don't know - here is a summary:
We just had another election 2nd in 2 years. The ruling Conservative party under a Minority gov't sought a majority mandate from Canadians. They broke their own law but calling for an election in the hopes of capitalizing on a weak opposition and to avoid the backlash from an impending economic slowdown. The way it is in Canada - there is only one right wing party. The other parties are either Centre or Leftish in their policies. So, with a 38% vote - the Conservatives yet again found themselves in a Minority gov't. Unable to push their right wing agenda thru - their first goal in parliament was to keep the opposition parties down by putting forth an economic mandate that included many controversial plans. In a surprise move - the other parties are mobilizing now to form a coalition which would include support from a separtist party that only has seats in Quebec.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/546315
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anyhoo - this thread is for discussion as the story unfolds
We just had another election 2nd in 2 years. The ruling Conservative party under a Minority gov't sought a majority mandate from Canadians. They broke their own law but calling for an election in the hopes of capitalizing on a weak opposition and to avoid the backlash from an impending economic slowdown. The way it is in Canada - there is only one right wing party. The other parties are either Centre or Leftish in their policies. So, with a 38% vote - the Conservatives yet again found themselves in a Minority gov't. Unable to push their right wing agenda thru - their first goal in parliament was to keep the opposition parties down by putting forth an economic mandate that included many controversial plans. In a surprise move - the other parties are mobilizing now to form a coalition which would include support from a separtist party that only has seats in Quebec.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/546315
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anyhoo - this thread is for discussion as the story unfolds
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
1) Overall, I think that this kind of political combat is the very last thing Canada needs right now, in the midst of economic crisis. What we really need is cooperation between the parties, not this sort of powergrabbing BS. Harper made a huge mistake when he tried to cut public funding for political parties, and the Conservatives' approach should have included clear stimulus measures for dealing with the economy instead. Poor judgment, really.
2) The idea of a coalition between the Liberals, the Bloc, and the NDP, assuming such a thing is even workable, is pretty revolting to me. I am not going to lie ... I would like to see more integrity from the Libs and NDP than working with separatists, even if their political agendas do intersect. I do not think the Liberals are trustworthy in the first place, and now my opinion of the NDP is not much better. On the surface, the whole thing looks an awful lot like sacrificing principles for the purpose of grabbing power, in the absense of any evidence that a coalition government of this sort could do any better than Harper's Conservatives, economically-speaking. I also find it concerning that people like Chretien are involved behind the scenes. That corrupt old goof has already wielded power, for a long time, and all it got us was the Sponsorship scandal and years of political stagnation.
3) If indeed the government falls, my view is that another election is more consistent with democratic principles than simply letting people WHO WERE NOT ELECTED TO LEAD THE GOVERNMENT take over. If indeed the public has lost faith in Harper, he would lose another election, as well he should. Even if our laws permit a transition to a coalition government without another election (and unfortunately they do), such a state of affairs should not be allowed to come to pass. There are higher democratic principles at stake here ... People should elect any and all governments. If a government falls in the House to a nonconfidence vote, the right thing to do is to put it back to the people.
Another election would be expensive, and people are already burned out on politics right now. But IMO, it is the only acceptable solution should Harper's crew fall. While many people obviously voted for the Liberals, the Bloc (ugh), and the NDP, would these same people vote for a coalition between the three?
Admittedly, I am biased. Someone from Quebec might give a more objective assessment of the separatists.
That is sort of what I was thinking; there seem to be idiots on all sides. I don't really have a problem with cutting political funding (since I thought the parties spent way too much on crappy commercials last election), although I do think there should have been more stuff on the economy. I am also kind of annoyed that the government may fall on their first big vote, it would have been nice for them to at least try to pass a few things before this happened.
The idea of the Bloc getting in on a coalition bothers me too, since it is an idea that is just built for failure. If it goes ahead there will be even more pandering to Quebec then usual and as soon as this coalition does something they don't like there will be a non-confidence vote and we will have another election. I would rather see the libs and the NDP making more of an effort to come to a compromise with the conservatives. Then again I kind of don't think a party whose number 1 goal is essentially overthrowing the existing Canadian government should be allowed in parliament.
I feel the same way about the Bloc as you do ... However, I also view them as part of the price one pays for democracy ... They are allowed to be there because people put them there, and while I have my opinions, I also have to concede that their presence is legit. Speaking as the product of a long line of pro-Canada French Canadians (I grew up in the West, mind you), I think more needs to be done to weaken the Bloc from the inside (i.e., at the level of the voters in Quebec), and the onus is on Quebec federalists to do this.
And you're right ... This path that Layton and Dion are on leads directly to more concessions for Quebec.
I see what you are saying about them being the price you pay for democracy. But on the other hand, I am pretty sure that MP's are required to take an Oath of Allegiance, which is to the Queen. Now how can you take that Oath if your goal is to create your own country whose head of state is not the queen?
what i find to be centre of this is that harper has shown in his 2 years that he isn't interested in working with the other parties ... it's his way or the highway ... he got away with it because the liberals had no backbone for those 2 years ... now, they tried to push through such a partisan agenda and it's come back to haunt them ... another key thing to note is that if the sponsorship scandal continues to be the only thing one can associate with the liberal party why not the huge abuses that are coming to light under the conservatives ... have you guys seen the bills associated with travel and expenses by this harper gov't!?? ... it's ridiculous ...
if the conservatives weren't so two-faced - i could side with them on some issues but they have shown in their time in power is that they are liars - which is not a surprise to us in Ontario because the Harris years were the exact same thing ... the economic update was not only a clearly partisan attack but it was also filled with fraudulent information ... all the leading economists from the banks were calling it fraud - they are cooking the books ... flaherty cooked the books in ontario and he's doing it again ...
I am curious why it is a partisan attack. They were cutting funding to all parties, including their own, weren't they? It is not like they were only cutting funding to the opposition.
everyone knows that the conservatives are a fundraising machine ... their connections to big business has allowed them to spend more than anyone on the last election ... the liberals having gone thru a leadership race and now another one to come ... they are cash-strapped ... the greens rely on grassroots funding ... this is clearly an attempt at kicking at the parties while they are down ... party insiders will tell you that as well ...
But how much money do these parties need? Last election I saw way more TV election ads than I thought were necessary for any of the parties (most of them terrible but still on all the time, in primetime no less), and still we had record low turnout.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Bloc already say they would not be part of a coalition? Can it still work without them?
Most of the media reports have suggested that the Bloc is on board, but they themselves have been curiously silent on the matter.
The Liberals and New Democrats had agreed to jointly govern for two-and-a-half years, said an NDP source involved in the talks. But the Bloc Quebecois, which would not officially be part of the coalition, was not prepared to give them that long a lease on life.
The coalition government would depend on Bloc support because the Liberals and NDP together don’t command a majority in the Commons.
I'm confused.
So basically who ever can offer the biggest blank cheque to quebec and the bloc gets to stay in power (since by my math Conservatives and Bloc would also have a majority in the house). That sounds pretty awful.
it is my opinion that the public image of stephane dion was a huge factor in the demise of the liberal party in the most recent election ... it is also my opinion that stephane dion is the most honest and honourable politician to run out of harper, layton and duceppe ... the conservatives started running negative ads on dion as soon as he became leader ... they also started running campaign ads prior to actually calling an election ... in essence, they got a head start and they could only do that with the extra cash they have ...
fundraising is everything in politics ... look at obama in the states ...
they would not be part of the coalition in that they would NOT have any cabinet seats but that they would support the coalition ... at the end of the day - Harper's policies are not good for Canada ... he's tax cut our surplus for a rainy day to the point where we don't have anything to work on during this economic time ... every other plan he's put forth is aimed at addressing his personal ideologies ... although the bloc is a separatist party they vote accordingly on all issues that affect the country ...
this actually looks like this will happen ... this is crazy shit ...
Obama who I believe raised all his own money and decided not to take government funding. If negative ads hurt Dion's chances wouldn't it be better if the each party had less money?
Plus as far as liberals having less corporate cash, weren't they the ones who passed laws to limit (or perhaps even outlaw) donations from corporations?
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081130/conservative_budget_081201/20081201?hub=TopStories
"In a historic political move, the leaders of the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc Quebecois signed a formal agreement Monday to co-operate as a coalition government for the next 18 months.
"I'm pleased to announce we are ready to form a government," said Dion, adding that the new government will govern "effectively, prudently, promptly and competently address these critical economic times."
""We are at one, the three of us, that the only person who can lead the party is the duly elected leader of the party Mr. Stephane Dion," Ignatieff said.
Rae described the meeting as historic, positive, upbeat and moving. "
Go Canada!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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This is not good. Hopefully enough elected Liberals cross the floor over this debacle to prevent this from coming to fruition. This is the result of the personal agenda of a few men, and not the will of the voters of Canada.
If the no-confidence vote goes through, the best result would be another election which would ensure the Conservatives a majority government and petty shit like this would be stopped at a time when petty politics should be the last thing on everybody's agenda.
Not so great for the Harper fans...but it's getting that divided against this guy. Harper is the Canadian version of Bush in my eyes, and the US should have done the same long ago.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I, for one, am happy. I voted strategically in my riding, which meant voting Liberal just to try to keep Harper from reaching a majority. In my opinion, Not Harper running the country is better than Harper running the country. A wider range of Canadians are represented by a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition than are represented by a Harper minority.
The Prime Minister’s Office released the recording and pointed to it as proof of an NDP-Bloc conspiracy hatched long before the government produced its fall financial blueprint.
NDP MP Thomas Mulcair said his party will be “examining the possible application of the Criminal Code” in the Tories’ clandestine recording and distribution of the private meeting. He said the extraordinary event “shows the desperation of the Conservatives.”
ah, political intrigue :rolleyes: almost makes me wanna turn on the tv.
what a crazy next few months it is going to be...just a lil bit of world power changing hands these days....turmoil (tinfoil?) everywhere...
And an even wider range are represented by a Conservative-Bloc coalition and just imagine the shit-storm that would have occurred if that happened. Harper should just say "fuck it" and watch the mess unfold from the opposition benches. Dion is a joke. Layton is ok - but he's not the everyman that he makes himself out to be. And the Bloc? It's really bad to give veto power over the coalition to the NDP and the Bloc.
The Canadian markets should have held up ok during this global slow-down but now watch them go down the toilet as international investors won't be able to get their money out of Canada fast enough with the NDP and Liberals horrid economic policies.
That's a useless point to make about a Bloc/Conservative coalition. You could say the same about a Liberal/Conservative coalition, fact of the matter is, it's not happening. A majority of people in this country do not like Harper and this coalition is representative of that.
I for one am sick of people talking about how "people we didn't elect will be running things". Well I have news for you, more of us didn't want the Conservatives that did want them. If you factor in all the people that didn't vote, like 8% of the country voted Harper.
I totally agree with what you said. It has gotten to the point where it is no longer even about the fiscal update and just a chance for a power grab. I mean it looks like they are going to have the no-confidence vote no matter what. The whole thing seems like the other parties trying to do a backdoor play around the election results, which they can do, but if you were going to do that, why not mention it during the election.
Plus I really wonder what cabinet post the liberals promised Jack Layton to get him on board, especially since he was pretty outspoken against the liberals and the conservatives in the election. Plus it almost goes without saying that forming an alliance with the block is a terrible idea for every Canadian not living in Quebec.
I'll be happy to see the cons go. Amongst many things they've been breaking their own law by sole sourcing major contracts to the US...everything from buying military helicopters to allowing fucking Haliburton to do our census. I work in an environment where all of this shit is going on and I haven't seen one sad face over it all.
Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada
December 2, 2008
Your Excellency,
I am writing you today, as it seems more and more likely that you are facing a very difficult decision in the coming weeks.
As I and my fellow Canadians watch and wait, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated and I feel helpless. Six weeks ago I cast my vote for the person I felt was most qualified to run our wonderful country. It is a right and an honour to be able to freely cast that vote.
I am raising a family with 3 beautiful daughters. My oldest daughter is 6 years old. During the election campaign, and on election night, I answered all of her questions, and patiently and proudly explained to her about the basics of democracy. In Fact - to help my young daughters understand, we held a mini election in my family. My Wife is now the Prime Minister of the my Household. Now it looks like I have to band with 2 of my daughters and kick my wife out of office.
This brings me to my point. When you are facing the decision of calling another election or ushering in a Government that no one elected, I plead with you to think about my 3 daughters, and the rest of the Canadian public. Ask yourself "how can we explain to the people that their vote does not count"?
I also respectfully ask you to consider the Founding Fathers of our nation, and what they might think about a prospective government that a) Is being governed by a leader who was going to step down facing pressure from his own party b) Is formed with the Bloc Quebecois, whose only reason for being is to tear Canada apart and c) Has three people leading the party, who 6 weeks ago, publicly ran each other down in the election.
Further, if for some reason this coalition Government is placed into power, I request that the new Prime Minister would have to address the nation and explain to us, as our new leader, that our say, our opinion, our rights do not count.
Your Excellency, the events leading to this stage are shameful and deplorable. This does not represent the country I love. This is not the Canada I know. It is now in your hands to help us through this.
Yours respectfully,
Well written...I hope you explained to your daughters that these are also the risks when you have a minority government.
I would also like to see the PM maybe take some responsibility as well when he's addressing us. Failed majority wins against a party with a major scandal, and another to a party that wasn't prepared for an election. Will he play victim or admit that maybe that some of the decisions he made brought this on, and that he wasn't the man for the job?