One more quick point ... The party situation in Canada is not as simple as one right-wing party and everyone else as paragons of progress ... Historically, the Liberals and Conservatives have been centrist, with small leanings left or right depending on whose calling the shots in the party at any given point in time. The NDP are clearly leftist, and the Bloc, while socially progressive, are also rabidly pro-Quebec, at least mildly xenophobic (with regards to the rest of Canada and anyone who deosn't speak French), and soundbyte politicians who thrive on scaring people in Quebec (and other Canadians, apparently) into voting for them and/or supporting their policies.
Admittedly, I am biased. Someone from Quebec might give a more objective assessment of the separatists.
Separatist sucks
This crisis is pretty funny to watch, i don't mind the NDP - Liberals associations or the statu quo, election would be stupid.
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
So basically who ever can offer the biggest blank cheque to quebec and the bloc gets to stay in power (since by my math Conservatives and Bloc would also have a majority in the house). That sounds pretty awful.
exactally !!
how can a party that only runs and has interests in one province be allowed to help control our country?
Harper flushed and we are all going round and round on the way down...
Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada
December 2, 2008
Your Excellency,
I am writing you today, as it seems more and more likely that you are facing a very difficult decision in the coming weeks.
As I and my fellow Canadians watch and wait, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated and I feel helpless. Six weeks ago I cast my vote for the person I felt was most qualified to run our wonderful country. It is a right and an honour to be able to freely cast that vote.
I am raising a family with 3 beautiful daughters. My oldest daughter is 6 years old. During the election campaign, and on election night, I answered all of her questions, and patiently and proudly explained to her about the basics of democracy. In Fact - to help my young daughters understand, we held a mini election in my family. My Wife is now the Prime Minister of the my Household. Now it looks like I have to band with 2 of my daughters and kick my wife out of office.
This brings me to my point. When you are facing the decision of calling another election or ushering in a Government that no one elected, I plead with you to think about my 3 daughters, and the rest of the Canadian public. Ask yourself "how can we explain to the people that their vote does not count"?
I also respectfully ask you to consider the Founding Fathers of our nation, and what they might think about a prospective government that a) Is being governed by a leader who was going to step down facing pressure from his own party b) Is formed with the Bloc Quebecois, whose only reason for being is to tear Canada apart and c) Has three people leading the party, who 6 weeks ago, publicly ran each other down in the election.
Further, if for some reason this coalition Government is placed into power, I request that the new Prime Minister would have to address the nation and explain to us, as our new leader, that our say, our opinion, our rights do not count.
Your Excellency, the events leading to this stage are shameful and deplorable. This does not represent the country I love. This is not the Canada I know. It is now in your hands to help us through this.
Yours respectfully,
Regardless of this coalition, every Canadian vote does count.
We don't for the Prime Minister. We vote for a Member of Parliament for our local region. The Members of Parliament in Ottawa are unchanged as a result of this coalition. The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.
Nothing that is happening in Ottawa is undemocratic by canadian standards.
9/20/05 - Quebec City
9/22/05 - Halifax
6/19/08 - Camden
6/28/08 - Mansfield 9/07/11 - Montreal 5/05/16 - Quebec City
Regardless of this coalition, every Canadian vote does count.
We don't for the Prime Minister. We vote for a Member of Parliament for our local region. The Members of Parliament in Ottawa are unchanged as a result of this coalition. The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.
Nothing that is happening in Ottawa is undemocratic by canadian standards.
exactly ...
regardless of what side of the political fence you fall on ... do not fall prey to the bs rhetoric about democracy and shit like that ... the current pm doesn't believe in democracy ... everyone (even in his party) realize he is a micro-manager (dictator) ...
again - if harper was willing to work with the other parties which is TRULY what his mandate was based on the election we wouldn't be here ... if Canadians wanted him to push through a personal agenda then they would have given him a majority ... that is not the case ... the prime minister has chosen to fuck everyone else and this is the result ...
Regardless of this coalition, every Canadian vote does count.
We don't for the Prime Minister. We vote for a Member of Parliament for our local region. The Members of Parliament in Ottawa are unchanged as a result of this coalition. The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.
Nothing that is happening in Ottawa is undemocratic by canadian standards.
pm/conservatives put forth an update or whatever that he sets as a confidence motion ie if the vote fails, the gov't falls ...
so ... regardless of whether you like this coalition - if the pm puts out an ideological motion that doesn't serve the constituent - their jobs as elected mps is to vote against it ...
ffwd to after the vote ... we are left with typically one choice ... ANOTHER ELECTION (which no one wants) - so, an alternative to this is that the other 3 parties would like to form a gov't and be given a chance to govern ...
how is this process undemocratic? ... this is all legit ... based on our parliamentary democracy ...
pm/conservatives put forth an update or whatever that he sets as a confidence motion ie if the vote fails, the gov't falls ...
so ... regardless of whether you like this coalition - if the pm puts out an ideological motion that doesn't serve the constituent - their jobs as elected mps is to vote against it ...
ffwd to after the vote ... we are left with typically one choice ... ANOTHER ELECTION (which no one wants) - so, an alternative to this is that the other 3 parties would like to form a gov't and be given a chance to govern ...
how is this process undemocratic? ... this is all legit ... based on our parliamentary democracy ...
I've been arguing this point all day around the office. Not supporting the Tories in AB is a bitch...
Harper knew full well that this update was not acceptable to the other parties and they would either have to accept it or force another election thru a non-confidence vote...which the other parties could not afford (literally). He had his bluff called, and I think it looks good on him.
Before Tory fans lash out at the Libs and NDP for getting in bed with the Bloc, they should remember this (again from the article I posted above) :
In September 2004, Harper wrote to then-governor general Adrienne Clarkson to argue that she should “consider all your options” if the Liberal minority of Paul Martin was to fall on a confidence vote.
“We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation,” Harper wrote.
Harper co-signed the letter with Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe
It wouldn't surprise me if this is intentional...let the coalition take power thru the worst of the economic crash, wait for them to implode (which they will), and campaign based on the compromised values of the other parties, while blaming the economy on them....and voila! Conservative majority...
I've been arguing this point all day around the office. Not supporting the Tories in AB is a bitch...
Harper knew full well that this update was not acceptable to the other parties and they would either have to accept it or force another election thru a non-confidence vote...which the other parties could not afford (literally). He had his bluff called, and I think it looks good on him.
Before Tory fans lash out at the Libs and NDP for getting in bed with the Bloc, they should remember this (again from the article I posted above) :
In September 2004, Harper wrote to then-governor general Adrienne Clarkson to argue that she should “consider all your options” if the Liberal minority of Paul Martin was to fall on a confidence vote.
“We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation,” Harper wrote.
Harper co-signed the letter with Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe
It wouldn't surprise me if this is intentional...let the coalition take power thru the worst of the economic crash, wait for them to implode (which they will), and campaign based on the compromised values of the other parties, while blaming the economy on them....and voila! Conservative majority...
what is most frustrating is that this has now become a PR war ... I know I am biased but the Conservatives really will talk the stupidest shit and people soak it up ...
The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.
Do you actually think a working government would be one whose leader doesn't even think he is fit to be running his own party, and has a large portion of members who don't even want to be part of Canada. To me that is a trainwreck waiting to happen.
I think the thing that bugs me the most if these parties wanted to go ahead with this whole coalition thing, no matter what (which it pretty much is now since it seems they are going to call for a vote of non-confidence no matter what happens with the fiscal update), then why not mention it during the election? Instead they waited for the conservatives to form their government and fill the cabinet posts which wasted time and a ton of money (since all those cabinet ministers got raises and I think pension bumps).
regardless of what side of the political fence you fall on ... do not fall prey to the bs rhetoric about democracy and shit like that ... the current pm doesn't believe in democracy ... everyone (even in his party) realize he is a micro-manager (dictator) ...
again - if harper was willing to work with the other parties which is TRULY what his mandate was based on the election we wouldn't be here ... if Canadians wanted him to push through a personal agenda then they would have given him a majority ... that is not the case ... the prime minister has chosen to fuck everyone else and this is the result ...
Get your head out of your ass. This whole coalition is exactly the result of the personal agenda of a few men who were bitter at losing an election and now all Canadians get to suffer by this appearance of political instability. This whole situation is laughable -- all we can do is sit back and watch the politicians pat themselves on the back while the Canadian economy collapses at the hands of the Liberals and NDP yet again.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
Get your head out of your ass. This whole coalition is exactly the result of the personal agenda of a few men who were bitter at losing an election and now all Canadians get to suffer by this appearance of political instability. This whole situation is laughable -- all we can do is sit back and watch the politicians pat themselves on the back while the Canadian economy collapses at the hands of the Liberals and NDP yet again.
a few men????? The majority of this country did not vote conservative. The Conservatives did not win the election, they went into the election with a minority and last time i checked came out with one. In my books thats a loss for Canada for ramming this past election down our throats for nothing, then he has the nerve to go about his business like he got a majority. Ignoring most of Canada. Can you understand this???? ....which may be in doubt since its hard to hear when your own head is far up Harpers ass......
0
coachchris
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 749
Get your head out of your ass. This whole coalition is exactly the result of the personal agenda of a few men who were bitter at losing an election and now all Canadians get to suffer by this appearance of political instability. This whole situation is laughable -- all we can do is sit back and watch the politicians pat themselves on the back while the Canadian economy collapses at the hands of the Liberals and NDP yet again.
Party Candidate Votes Vote Share (%) Status
Updated: Nov. 7, 2008 5:00 PM EST 229/229 polls
NDP Bruce Hyer 13,191 37.01 Elected
LIB Don McArthur 10,094 28.32
CON Bev Sarafin 9,567 26.84
GRN Brendan Hughes 2,460 6.90
MP Denis Carrière 328 0.92
Being from Thunder Bay (now living in a PC loving Alberta for 10 years) I thought I'd point out how Thunder Bay (where you are) voted in the past election. Clearly there are more then a "few men" who felt unhappy with a Conservative government.
Adolescence in essence is all about trust.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
Get your head out of your ass. This whole coalition is exactly the result of the personal agenda of a few men who were bitter at losing an election and now all Canadians get to suffer by this appearance of political instability. This whole situation is laughable -- all we can do is sit back and watch the politicians pat themselves on the back while the Canadian economy collapses at the hands of the Liberals and NDP yet again.
aw, muffin...a lil bitter? nice opening line...
Did you read my post a few before yours? Damn that didn't take long....economic collapse at the hands of the Libs and NDP, huh? :rolleyes:
Which party has presided over a 50% loss on the TSX? The economy is fucked no matter who is in power. Yes, political instability is a killer on the markets...but Harper could have avoided this situation, he is not blameless in this.
Party Candidate Votes Vote Share (%) Status
Updated: Nov. 7, 2008 5:00 PM EST 229/229 polls
NDP Bruce Hyer 13,191 37.01 Elected
LIB Don McArthur 10,094 28.32
CON Bev Sarafin 9,567 26.84
GRN Brendan Hughes 2,460 6.90
MP Denis Carrière 328 0.92
Being from Thunder Bay (now living in a PC loving Alberta for 10 years) I thought I'd point out how Thunder Bay (where you are) voted in the past election. Clearly there are more then a "few men" who felt unhappy with a Conservative government.
There are actually 2 elected NDP MPs here in Thunder Bay. And watch all the good that the NDP will do here - we just had the first week ever where every single pulp/paper and sawmill in the area were shut down. There's nothing wrong with being unhappy with the government, but igniting political instability (if you think that signing an agreement to form a government with separatists does not appear instable then you really need to give your head a shake) at a time when investors are extremely nervous about anything is a boneheaded move by some selfish people. I think that Bob Rae pulled the same crap here in Ontario back in the 80s if I'm not mistaken.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
a few men????? The majority of this country did not vote conservative. The Conservatives did not win the election, they went into the election with a minority and last time i checked came out with one. In my books thats a loss for Canada for ramming this past election down our throats for nothing, then he has the nerve to go about his business like he got a majority. Ignoring most of Canada. Can you understand this???? ....which may be in doubt since its hard to hear when your own head is far up Harpers ass......
You do know that we are supposed to have elections every 3-5 years right? So basically you are telling me that we have a 2 party system here? What part of Canada has been ignored?
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
Did you read my post a few before yours? Damn that didn't take long....economic collapse at the hands of the Libs and NDP, huh? :rolleyes:
Which party has presided over a 50% loss on the TSX? The economy is fucked no matter who is in power. Yes, political instability is a killer on the markets...but Harper could have avoided this situation, he is not blameless in this.
Muffin? What is this 1983?
The Canadian economy has been holding its own. The economic collapse will be at the hands of the Libs and NDP (and Bloc) -- wait and see. Dion was a lame duck who deemed himself unworthy of leading the Liberals. What kind of Prime Minister is he going to be -- all of a sudden he will be Captain Canada?
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
The Canadian economy has been holding its own. The economic collapse will be at the hands of the Libs and NDP (and Bloc) -- wait and see. Dion was a lame duck who deemed himself unworthy of leading the Liberals. What kind of Prime Minister is he going to be -- all of a sudden he will be Captain Canada?
how can you say that the economy is holding its own when we have even teh conservatives (unlike what they were saying when they were running for re-election) saying we have problems.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
best scenario now is basically delay anything until the january budget. this coalition will be a shitshow and we'll be paying for it in taxes down the road. 30 billion in misdirected funds won't fix shit.
all four of these fuckers should be in a rocket to the moon. especially layton but i'm not giving harper a pass on anything. he was just as willing 4 years ago to get in bed with jack and gilles.
harper royally miscalculated. perhaps if he could have gotten over his ego for a second and realized the optics of what he was doing. timing is everything. he gambled and lost.
i can see the PR/propaganda machine continues to work on some people ... :rolleyes:
this is the reality of the situation:
Stephen Harper is not willing to work with the other parties to govern this country - all he's done while in power is continue to divide the country and rule with an iron fist.
Although clearly biased - I respect that the current electoral system put in a Conservative minority gov't. That means that they need to work with the opposition to run parliament. Not having a plan to deal with a global economic crisis is just plain irresponsible. The reality is that as a country, we are seeing the impacts fast - we can't wait until spring to make a plan. Anything the gov't does takes time to implement and to show results. What that plan should be is up for debate but doing nothing is flat out irresponsible.
Again - we would not be here if he was willing to work with the other parties.
all four of these fuckers should be in a rocket to the moon. especially layton but i'm not giving harper a pass on anything. he was just as willing 4 years ago to get in bed with jack and gilles.
if i told you to lick my boots everyday - at what point would you tell me to fuck off? ... harper's been asking the other parties to lick his boots for the last 2 ...
if i told you to lick my boots everyday - at what point would you tell me to fuck off? ... harper's been asking the other parties to lick his boots for the last 2 ...
i'm on your side man but i have nothing but unfettered comtempt for all of them.
i am no fan of harper. believe me. he baked this pie.
but i do feel, at this point, the best path is the reboot and see what happens with the january budget. not that harper deserves that reprieve.
i'm on your side man but i have nothing but unfettered comtempt for all of them.
i am no fan of harper. believe me. he baked this pie.
but i do feel, at this point, the best path is the reboot and see what happens with the january budget. not that harper deserves that reprieve.
anything else will be utter chaos.
the thing is - it's not like the first time he's done this ... he's been doing this for 2 years ... great example was extending the war in afghanistan - call a meeting for that nite to vote without discussion and make it a motion of confidence ...
he has not shown any willingness to work with the other parties - so, what are we left with? ... although i think the division these events have and will cause are detrimental to the country - i say give the coalition a shot ... they for 1 better represent the views of the country ...
i can see the PR/propaganda machine continues to work on some people ... :rolleyes:
this is the reality of the situation:
Stephen Harper is not willing to work with the other parties to govern this country - all he's done while in power is continue to divide the country and rule with an iron fist.
Although clearly biased - I respect that the current electoral system put in a Conservative minority gov't. That means that they need to work with the opposition to run parliament. Not having a plan to deal with a global economic crisis is just plain irresponsible. The reality is that as a country, we are seeing the impacts fast - we can't wait until spring to make a plan. Anything the gov't does takes time to implement and to show results. What that plan should be is up for debate but doing nothing is flat out irresponsible.
Again - we would not be here if he was willing to work with the other parties.
exactly, harper is a big phony. all this talk abotu having teh Bloc as a part of teh coalition is bullshit. when he was trying to get more seat in Quebec he backs down to Bloc. is this isi not teh same Pm that called Quebec a state. what bullshit.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
exactly, harper is a big phony. all this talk abotu having teh Bloc as a part of teh coalition is bullshit. when he was trying to get more seat in Quebec he backs down to Bloc. is this isi not teh same Pm that called Quebec a state. what bullshit.
the two-faced nature of Harper and Flaherty are what aggravates me the most ... the shit he is willing to spew to further his agenda annoys the hell out of me ...
granted most politicians are like that but his negative attack ads based on lies are particulary insightful ...
he has not shown any willingness to work with the other parties - so, what are we left with? ... although i think the division these events have and will cause are detrimental to the country - i say give the coalition a shot ... they for 1 better represent the views of the country ...
The problem is none of the parties are willing to work together. I mean when the fiscal update came out, I didn't see any of the opposition parties offer up an alternative that they would vote for, they pretty much automatically went into bring down the government mode.
Plus I am not sure how this coalition represents the views of the country, since 30 percent of the members of it (who could form the new government) are for Quebec sovereignty. I am pretty sure 30 percent of the country is not for that.
The problem is none of the parties are willing to work together. I mean when the fiscal update came out, I didn't see any of the opposition parties offer up an alternative that they would vote for, they pretty much automatically went into bring down the government mode.
Plus I am not sure how this coalition represents the views of the country, since 30 percent of the members of it (who could form the new government) are for Quebec sovereignty. I am pretty sure 30 percent of the country is not for that.
1. harper made it a confidence motion when he did not have to do that ... that is how he has done things for the last 2 years ... there is no room for alternatives or debates with him ... he basically said - vote for it or take down this gov't - that was his first order of business ... provide an economic update that had no plan for the economy but was filled with partisan bs ...
2. the bloc will always operate with the interests of quebec but sovereignty or separation is not something they can do as a federal party ... that is a provincial jurisdiction ... at the end of the day - it's not like they don't show up when the issues aren't related to quebecers - they vote accordingly on all the issues ... name me one issue outside of quebec as a nation where the libs/ndp don't share similar views with the bloc on ...
Comments
Separatist sucks
This crisis is pretty funny to watch, i don't mind the NDP - Liberals associations or the statu quo, election would be stupid.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
how can a party that only runs and has interests in one province be allowed to help control our country?
Harper flushed and we are all going round and round on the way down...
Regardless of this coalition, every Canadian vote does count.
We don't for the Prime Minister. We vote for a Member of Parliament for our local region. The Members of Parliament in Ottawa are unchanged as a result of this coalition. The conservatives could not form a working government, so as part of our democratic system the opposition now has an opportunity to do so.
Nothing that is happening in Ottawa is undemocratic by canadian standards.
9/22/05 - Halifax
6/19/08 - Camden
6/28/08 - Mansfield
9/07/11 - Montreal
5/05/16 - Quebec City
exactly ...
regardless of what side of the political fence you fall on ... do not fall prey to the bs rhetoric about democracy and shit like that ... the current pm doesn't believe in democracy ... everyone (even in his party) realize he is a micro-manager (dictator) ...
again - if harper was willing to work with the other parties which is TRULY what his mandate was based on the election we wouldn't be here ... if Canadians wanted him to push through a personal agenda then they would have given him a majority ... that is not the case ... the prime minister has chosen to fuck everyone else and this is the result ...
Can a get a hallelujah?
pm/conservatives put forth an update or whatever that he sets as a confidence motion ie if the vote fails, the gov't falls ...
so ... regardless of whether you like this coalition - if the pm puts out an ideological motion that doesn't serve the constituent - their jobs as elected mps is to vote against it ...
ffwd to after the vote ... we are left with typically one choice ... ANOTHER ELECTION (which no one wants) - so, an alternative to this is that the other 3 parties would like to form a gov't and be given a chance to govern ...
how is this process undemocratic? ... this is all legit ... based on our parliamentary democracy ...
I've been arguing this point all day around the office. Not supporting the Tories in AB is a bitch...
Harper knew full well that this update was not acceptable to the other parties and they would either have to accept it or force another election thru a non-confidence vote...which the other parties could not afford (literally). He had his bluff called, and I think it looks good on him.
Before Tory fans lash out at the Libs and NDP for getting in bed with the Bloc, they should remember this (again from the article I posted above) :
In September 2004, Harper wrote to then-governor general Adrienne Clarkson to argue that she should “consider all your options” if the Liberal minority of Paul Martin was to fall on a confidence vote.
“We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation,” Harper wrote.
Harper co-signed the letter with Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe
It wouldn't surprise me if this is intentional...let the coalition take power thru the worst of the economic crash, wait for them to implode (which they will), and campaign based on the compromised values of the other parties, while blaming the economy on them....and voila! Conservative majority...
what is most frustrating is that this has now become a PR war ... I know I am biased but the Conservatives really will talk the stupidest shit and people soak it up ...
Do you actually think a working government would be one whose leader doesn't even think he is fit to be running his own party, and has a large portion of members who don't even want to be part of Canada. To me that is a trainwreck waiting to happen.
I think the thing that bugs me the most if these parties wanted to go ahead with this whole coalition thing, no matter what (which it pretty much is now since it seems they are going to call for a vote of non-confidence no matter what happens with the fiscal update), then why not mention it during the election? Instead they waited for the conservatives to form their government and fill the cabinet posts which wasted time and a ton of money (since all those cabinet ministers got raises and I think pension bumps).
Get your head out of your ass. This whole coalition is exactly the result of the personal agenda of a few men who were bitter at losing an election and now all Canadians get to suffer by this appearance of political instability. This whole situation is laughable -- all we can do is sit back and watch the politicians pat themselves on the back while the Canadian economy collapses at the hands of the Liberals and NDP yet again.
Party Candidate Votes Vote Share (%) Status
Updated: Nov. 7, 2008 5:00 PM EST 229/229 polls
NDP Bruce Hyer 13,191 37.01 Elected
LIB Don McArthur 10,094 28.32
CON Bev Sarafin 9,567 26.84
GRN Brendan Hughes 2,460 6.90
MP Denis Carrière 328 0.92
Being from Thunder Bay (now living in a PC loving Alberta for 10 years) I thought I'd point out how Thunder Bay (where you are) voted in the past election. Clearly there are more then a "few men" who felt unhappy with a Conservative government.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
Did you read my post a few before yours? Damn that didn't take long....economic collapse at the hands of the Libs and NDP, huh? :rolleyes:
Which party has presided over a 50% loss on the TSX? The economy is fucked no matter who is in power. Yes, political instability is a killer on the markets...but Harper could have avoided this situation, he is not blameless in this.
There are actually 2 elected NDP MPs here in Thunder Bay. And watch all the good that the NDP will do here - we just had the first week ever where every single pulp/paper and sawmill in the area were shut down. There's nothing wrong with being unhappy with the government, but igniting political instability (if you think that signing an agreement to form a government with separatists does not appear instable then you really need to give your head a shake) at a time when investors are extremely nervous about anything is a boneheaded move by some selfish people. I think that Bob Rae pulled the same crap here in Ontario back in the 80s if I'm not mistaken.
You do know that we are supposed to have elections every 3-5 years right? So basically you are telling me that we have a 2 party system here? What part of Canada has been ignored?
Muffin? What is this 1983?
The Canadian economy has been holding its own. The economic collapse will be at the hands of the Libs and NDP (and Bloc) -- wait and see. Dion was a lame duck who deemed himself unworthy of leading the Liberals. What kind of Prime Minister is he going to be -- all of a sudden he will be Captain Canada?
how can you say that the economy is holding its own when we have even teh conservatives (unlike what they were saying when they were running for re-election) saying we have problems.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
all four of these fuckers should be in a rocket to the moon. especially layton but i'm not giving harper a pass on anything. he was just as willing 4 years ago to get in bed with jack and gilles.
harper royally miscalculated. perhaps if he could have gotten over his ego for a second and realized the optics of what he was doing. timing is everything. he gambled and lost.
this is the reality of the situation:
Stephen Harper is not willing to work with the other parties to govern this country - all he's done while in power is continue to divide the country and rule with an iron fist.
Although clearly biased - I respect that the current electoral system put in a Conservative minority gov't. That means that they need to work with the opposition to run parliament. Not having a plan to deal with a global economic crisis is just plain irresponsible. The reality is that as a country, we are seeing the impacts fast - we can't wait until spring to make a plan. Anything the gov't does takes time to implement and to show results. What that plan should be is up for debate but doing nothing is flat out irresponsible.
Again - we would not be here if he was willing to work with the other parties.
if i told you to lick my boots everyday - at what point would you tell me to fuck off? ... harper's been asking the other parties to lick his boots for the last 2 ...
i'm on your side man but i have nothing but unfettered comtempt for all of them.
i am no fan of harper. believe me. he baked this pie.
but i do feel, at this point, the best path is the reboot and see what happens with the january budget. not that harper deserves that reprieve.
anything else will be utter chaos.
the thing is - it's not like the first time he's done this ... he's been doing this for 2 years ... great example was extending the war in afghanistan - call a meeting for that nite to vote without discussion and make it a motion of confidence ...
he has not shown any willingness to work with the other parties - so, what are we left with? ... although i think the division these events have and will cause are detrimental to the country - i say give the coalition a shot ... they for 1 better represent the views of the country ...
exactly, harper is a big phony. all this talk abotu having teh Bloc as a part of teh coalition is bullshit. when he was trying to get more seat in Quebec he backs down to Bloc. is this isi not teh same Pm that called Quebec a state. what bullshit.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
the two-faced nature of Harper and Flaherty are what aggravates me the most ... the shit he is willing to spew to further his agenda annoys the hell out of me ...
granted most politicians are like that but his negative attack ads based on lies are particulary insightful ...
The problem is none of the parties are willing to work together. I mean when the fiscal update came out, I didn't see any of the opposition parties offer up an alternative that they would vote for, they pretty much automatically went into bring down the government mode.
Plus I am not sure how this coalition represents the views of the country, since 30 percent of the members of it (who could form the new government) are for Quebec sovereignty. I am pretty sure 30 percent of the country is not for that.
1. harper made it a confidence motion when he did not have to do that ... that is how he has done things for the last 2 years ... there is no room for alternatives or debates with him ... he basically said - vote for it or take down this gov't - that was his first order of business ... provide an economic update that had no plan for the economy but was filled with partisan bs ...
2. the bloc will always operate with the interests of quebec but sovereignty or separation is not something they can do as a federal party ... that is a provincial jurisdiction ... at the end of the day - it's not like they don't show up when the issues aren't related to quebecers - they vote accordingly on all the issues ... name me one issue outside of quebec as a nation where the libs/ndp don't share similar views with the bloc on ...
now i can't say the same thing about the west
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
quebec is going nowhere ... especially if they elect a liberal majority in the upcoming provincial election ...
Northern League in Italy, Catalans in Spain... they can, even though they shouldn't.