Who here doesnt think the US government is insanely out of control?

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    LOL what is with this jew stuff? I agree with your last paragraph. chill out out dude. I only asked because you seemed to imply that Americans got what it deserved on 9/11. My best friend's wife died that day so I take great offense to you thinking see deserved to die.

    LOL Jlew, you think that putting in a few spelling mistakes will throw people off the scent? Too funny! :D

    I knew it was you a few days ago, but my internet conection's been playing up.
    Anyway, I didn't say that those who died on 9/11 'got what they deserved', and no amount of twisting of my words will change that fact.
    Your attitude reminds me of when the Bush Administration - with Tony Blair in tow - kept blabbering on about how Sadaam was 'refusing to hand over' his WMD's. The weapons inspectors were busy doing their job, and after scouring Iraq from top to bottom they concluded that Sadaam had no WMD's. Ya see, there weren't any to begin with! Can you see how a deliberate choice of words can lead some gullible people into seeing something that isn't there? You'd make a 'useful' politician. Have you ever considered such a career move?
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Byrnzie wrote:
    LOL Jlew, you think that putting in a few spelling mistakes will throw people off the scent? Too funny! :D

    I knew it was you a few days ago, but my internet conection's been playing up.
    Anyway, I didn't say that those who died on 9/11 'got what they deserved', and no amount of twisting of my words will change that fact.
    Your attitude reminds me of when the Bush Administration - with Tony Blair in tow - kept blabbering on about how Sadaam was 'refusing to hand over' his WMD's. The weapons inspectors were busy doing their job, and after scouring Iraq from top to bottom they concluded that Sadaam had no WMD's. Ya see, there weren't any to begin with! Can you see how a deliberate choice of words can lead some gullible people into seeing something that isn't there? You'd make a 'useful' politician. Have you ever considered such a career move?

    you said Americans reap what they sow. I took that as American's getting what they deserved. All I asked for was some clarification. and listen guy, we went over this jlew stufdf in a thread about jlew, the mods deleted it I guess you missed it.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    I love these tough talking new users...it's all so believable...

    and incredibly transparent...

    :D
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    you said Americans reap what they sow. I took that as American's getting what they deserved. All I asked for was some clarification.

    There's a subtle, but distinct, difference. Ya see, It's all in the wording. And you shouldn't have any problem with this, because all it's ever come down to between you and me - after sifting through the fabrications, distortions of the truth, obfuscations, deliberate ommissions, and outright lies - is word games.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Byrnzie wrote:
    There's a subtle, but distinct, difference.
    thank you for the clarification. I still disagree however. prior to 9/11, I do not feel we were reaping what we sow. had we had a 9/11 attack after the Iraq+Afgah wars then I would say yes. but we went into those wars after 9/11.

    I'll take the reasons you used....did derserve after 50 years of supporting Israeli terror, decimating Iraq in 1991, propping up numerous puppet regimes throughout the Middle East, bombing a major Sudanese Medical factory, and sitting back and allowing tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslims to be slaughtered in Yugloslavia, e.t.c?........I do not agree that any of these reasons justify an attack such as 9/11. (expect supporting Israel, that is reason often used from bin laden himself).. 91 we were stopping saddam from invading a fellow muslim country, the sudanese were/are supporting osama bin laden, and I don't recall us sitting back and allowing slaughter of bosnian muslims. and secondly, why is the US's job to stop it from happening? that was a conflict among them, a conflict that we did end up intervening in....so I'm not sure I see your point about that last one.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thank you for the clarification. I still disagree however. prior to 9/11, I do not feel we were reaping what we sow. had we had a 9/11 attack after the Iraq+Afgah wars then I would say yes. but we went into those wars after 9/11.

    Have you read up on anything the American government did prior to 9/11? There is so much it's unbelievable.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    spiral out wrote:
    Have you read up on anything the American government did prior to 9/11? There is so much it's unbelievable.

    did I read up? I've been an american for 40 something years (;)). so yea, I've "read up on it"...have you read up on the atrocities of other countries around the world throughout history? do they deserve attacks on their citizens as well?
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    did I read up? I've been an american for 40 something years (;)). so yea, I've "read up on it"...have you read up on the atrocities of other countries around the world throughout history? do they deserve attacks on their citizens as well?

    Ok we are talking about America here specifically not other countries or what they have done that isn't the topic right now.

    You say you would understand these attacks if they happened now, so do you think that only now the American government has overstepped the mark?

    And by the way i am not saying anyone deserves any attacks.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    spiral out wrote:
    Ok we are talking about America here specifically not other countries or what they have done that isn't the topic right now.

    You say you would understand these attacks if they happened now, so do you think that only now the American government has overstepped the mark?

    And by the way i am not saying anyone deserves any attacks.
    prior to 9/11, no I do not think america was in a position that warranted an attack. the only reason would be, and its the reason I hear most from muslim extremist, is our support for Israel and for having a base in saudi arabia.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    91 we were stopping saddam from invading a fellow muslim country

    You didn't stop him invading Iran though, did ya?
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    the sudanese were/are supporting osama bin laden

    Really? And what's being done about it, and about the Situation in Darfur? Sweet F.A.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    and I don't recall us sitting back and allowing slaughter of bosnian muslims.

    You don't? So then what exactly did the 'international community' do to help stop the Bosnian genocide between 1992 and August 1995?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6228152.stm
    Thursday, 21 June 2007, 17:07 GMT 18:07 UK

    Bosnia war dead figure announced

    A new independent study has concluded that at least 97,207 people were killed in the Bosnian war in the 1990s - fewer than was previously estimated.

    The Center said some 65% of those killed were Bosnian Muslims.

    The UN prosecutor's office at the war crimes tribunal in The Hague had put the number of dead at about 110,000.

    Mirsad Tokaca, who led the Bosnian project, said the figure of 97,207 could rise by a maximum of another 10,000 due to ongoing research.'
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    and secondly, why is the US's job to stop it from happening? that was a conflict among them, a conflict that we did end up intervening in....so I'm not sure I see your point about that last one.

    Sorry, you were three years too late. Kind of like how you were three years too late in assisting Britain in WW11 - you only got involved after the German army became bogged down on the Eastern Front.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    and secondly, why is the US's job to stop it from happening? that was a conflict among them

    Also, how come this same logic wasn't applied to Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq-Kuwait?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    and I don't recall us sitting back and allowing slaughter of bosnian muslims.

    Tell that to the people of Srebrenica and Tuzla.

    http://www.identitytheory.com/interviews/fink_interview.html
    'The U.S. undoubtedly shares the responsibility. We are bound by our signature on the Genocide Convention to "prevent and punish" the crime of genocide. As if that weren't enough, we owed Srebrenica a special debt of protection because in 1993, two years before the genocide, we and the other members of the United Nations Security Council designated the town a "safe area" and largely disarmed its inhabitants. In his 1999 report on the fall of Srebrenica, United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan called on all governments "which contributed to the delay in the use of force" to accept their share of responsibility for allowing the genocide in Srebrenica to occur, and for each government to investigate its role in the fall of the town. The U.S. has not yet conducted such an investigation, and I believe that it is time for a congressional inquiry into what the U.S. knew about the Bosnian Serb attack and when it knew it. Intelligence experts believe that the U.S. has critical imagery and signals intelligence that it has not released, not even to the war crimes tribunal in the Hague.
    What should our government have done? Many historians believe that the wars in former Yugoslavia could have been prevented with early, concerted diplomatic efforts by United States and European negotiators...even after the wars began, there were many missed opportunities for the international community to intervene. The proof, it seems, is in the pudding. Weeks after the fall of Srebrenica, more than three years into the Bosnian war, NATO began a concerted bombing campaign against Bosnian Serb military targets, Operation Deliberate Force. Two weeks later, the campaign ended, followed by a ceasefire and peace talks in Dayton, Ohio. The war was over.'
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    prior to 9/11, no I do not think america was in a position that warranted an attack. the only reason would be, and its the reason I hear most from muslim extremist, is our support for Israel and for having a base in saudi arabia.

    then you do not know your history if you think any attack on the US wasnt warranted by someone at some time. when georgie said the US is a peaceful nation did you actually believe him?
    what the hell makes you think the US can do what it feels like doing around the world and not think they are a target?
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    have you read up on the atrocities of other countries around the world throughout history? do they deserve attacks on their citizens as well?

    According to a handful of violent western governments, yes, they do. They're commonly refered to as 'collateral damage', 'human shields' (placed in the way by the enemy), or 'enemy sympathisers'.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Really? And what's being done about it, and about the Situation in Darfur? Sweet F.A.
    nothing is being done about it. would you like the US to go into darfur? would you support bush for doing so?
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You don't? So then what exactly did the 'international community' do to help the Bosnian genocide between 1992 and August 1995?
    I really don't understand why you are using this as an example for justification of 9/11. why was the US responsible for stopping the bosnian genocide?
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Sorry, you were three years too late.
    so we do come in to help stop it, but that still wasn't good enough.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Kind of like how you were three years too late in assisting Britain in WW11 - you only got involved after the German army became bogged down on the Eastern Front.
    I guess next you're going to tell me the US did nothing to stop hitler.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Byrnzie wrote:
    According to a handful of violent western governments, yes, they do. They're commonly refered to as 'collateral damage', 'human shields' (placed in the way by the enemy), or 'enemy sympathisers'.

    why just western? how about african, asian, or middle eastern? are some or their governments not violent? have some of those countries not committed genocide in the last 50 years?
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    catefrances wrote:
    then you do not know your history if you think any attack on the US wasnt warranted by someone at some time. when georgie said the US is a peaceful nation did you actually believe him?
    what the hell makes you think the US can do what it feels like doing around the world and not think they are a target?

    thanks cate, I do know my history very well. what the hell makes you think innocent americans should ever be targets? don't answer that, I'm not interested in debating with you.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thanks cate, I do know my history very well. what the hell makes you think innocent americans should ever be targets? don't answer that, I'm not interested in debating with you.

    I'm pretty sure no one here wants Americans to be targets. And I think they don't want any other people to be targets. But your government does target innocent people and by doing so, they're painting a big bull's eye on the US.
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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    The determining factor on retaliation is intra v.s. inter.

    Keep it in the family v.s. broadcast it up and down the street...

    do the math...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    why just western? how about african, asian, or middle eastern? are some or their governments not violent? have some of those countries not committed genocide in the last 50 years?

    Because we're discussing the U.S government in this thread. And because your previous post asked the question: 'have you read up on the atrocities of other countries around the world throughout history? do they deserve attacks on their citizens as well?'

    Like I said above, you're just playing word games again Jlew. It's boring.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Collin wrote:
    I'm pretty sure no one here wants Americans to be targets. And I think they don't want any other people to be targets. But your government does target innocent people and by doing so, they're painting a big bull's eye on the US.
    again, prior to 9/11, I don't think this argument holds much water.

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