Are we still looking for Bin Laden?

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  • Posts: 10,118
    my2hands wrote:
    threat. it is what they would do. the usa has a long history of financially buying, or strangling, nations to influence policy... so i dont think they would do it to pakistan, especially by now...if they wanted bin laden
    it still comes down to the area in question. these tribal areas shouldnt even be considered pakistan. but it is, so its treated and defended as such.
    my2hands wrote:
    so you admit "we have" musharaf... and you like the idea of an iron fisted leader keeping the population "in control"?
    its a fucked up country, that much I know. I dont believe the country can be control any other way.
  • Posts: 13,066
    ...we could be hunting a ghost at this point...how sublime...the Islamic Elvis..

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html

    .
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    ...we could be hunting a ghost at this point...how sublime...the Islamic Elvis..

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html

    .
    o man. please dont waste your time with such garbage websites.

    although I do believe it is a possibility he is dead. but we dont have proof
  • Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o man. please dont waste your time with such garbage websites.

    although I do believe it is a possibility he is dead. but we dont have proof

    it's a collection of articles with references from major news outlets like BBC, CNN, Fox, NY times etc...

    I think they probably have a very good idea that he is already dead which is why Bush has publicly stated that he's not that concerned with finding him.

    I mean something is up that much we can all agree on. Saddam couldn't even hide in a hole in the ground in his own country even.

    The only logical explanation is that he's already dead.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yea I agree. but then we also face burning any bridges we have with potential new leaders of that country. its a fine line between friend or enemy with them.

    would be interesting to read a thesis or something from someone who has expert knowledge on pakistan, its people, and its regions.
    ...
    Here are a couple of great 'Frontline' features:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/search/

    Check them out.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Here are a couple of great 'Frontline' features:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/search/

    Check them out.
    yea these are good. I saw these on the tube.
  • Posts: 8,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    because we cant prove osama is there. starting a war with this country would gain us hundreds of millions of more extremist muslim enemies. our military isnt large enough to be involved in such a large scale war. pakistan is not a small place. for further evidence why we shouldnt go into pakistan. see iraq.

    i'm somewhat shocked that you would advocate invading a country as big and violent as pakistan. especially now with how fucked up the world is. you really dont get it.



    I have seen and read much more then you on the subject and there is nothing out there that proves 9/11 was an inside job. I see all sides.

    come back when you have something constructive to say. so far you have just embarrassed yourself along with your tini wini crew.

    Thanks bro......So with your worldlly knowledge? (sic) Why did you go into Afgan again? You may as well spare me the "to get the bin man" as you comment says, "why go somewhere when you don't know where he is for sure". You are taking the intel and telling me it is solid proof? Riiiiiigh! And then to the Taliban who are not really a government but a tribe. What were you saying earlier about the tribal region. You back track more then your government does for somebody who has read and knows more than me. What a wanker.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Posts: 8,066
    jlew24asu wrote:

    changing my story? what story would that be?

    Every f'n comment you have to say!
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Posts: 1,052
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I think you have just validated my point... Musharaf will NOT live forever. But, the military weapons we give him... and the U.S. Taxpayer dollars he uses to expand his nuclear capability will be. We need to STOP giving Pakistan weapons and money to expand weapons and weapons delivery systems programs.

    You need to ask why you are giving them wepons, because i can promise you now the country benefits from this deal the most is America.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Posts: 10,118
    even flow? wrote:
    Every f'n comment you have to say!
    prove it
  • Posts: 10,118
    even flow? wrote:
    Why did you go into Afgan again?
    again? we never left
    even flow? wrote:
    You may as well spare me the "to get the bin man" as you comment says, "why go somewhere when you don't know where he is for sure". You are taking the intel and telling me it is solid proof? Riiiiiigh!
    I'm american, my native language is english. I can't debate with you if yuo are going to give me this jibberish
    even flow? wrote:
    And then to the Taliban who are not really a government but a tribe.
    at the time of the invasion Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates recognized them as the government of Afghanistan.

    even flow? wrote:
    What were you saying earlier about the tribal region. You back track more then your government does for somebody who has read and knows more than me. What a wanker.
    so you are saying the country of Afghanistan is the same as the tribal areas of pakistan? at least I think thats what you are saying. your sentences are hard to figure out. but if thats the case, you are wrong. the taliban ruled the country and was the only government in place and had allowed al qaeda and bin laden OPEN free reign throughout the country.
  • Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    You need to ask why you are giving them wepons, because i can promise you now the country benefits from this deal the most is America.
    how so? are you talking in terms of money?
  • Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you've been dying to use that for a while havent you?

    Jlew i do wonder sometimes do you get your ideas from anywhere other than fox news?

    Oh and please check out the meaning of propaganda heres a link to wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

    you might stop repeating fox news so much after you learn about this new amazing little word.


    "Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist."
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    how so? are you talking in terms of money?

    No i'm talking in terms of history, america is only interested in helping other countries when it benefits them, natrually of course.

    Nothing that is done by america is done out of goodwill it's about what will i gain.

    The taliban is shining example of that. America created it.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    No i'm talking in terms of history, america is only interested in helping other countries when it benefits them, natrually of course.
    are you see this as a bad thing?

    spiral out wrote:
    Nothing that is done by america is done out of goodwill it's about what will i gain.
    really? so your saying we dont give out of goodwill? how bout this..http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hivaids/

    story came out 2 days ago
    spiral out wrote:
    The taliban is shining example of that. America created it.
    The Taliban initially had enormous goodwill from Afghans weary of the corruption, brutality and incessant fighting of Mujahideen warlords. Two contrasting narratives of the beginnings of the Taliban[9] are that the rape and murder of boys and girls from a family traveling to Kandahar or a similar outrage by Mujahideen bandits sparked Mullah Omar and his students to vow to rid Afghanistan of these criminals. [10] The other is that the Pakistan-based lorry shipping mafia known as the "Afghanistan Transit Trade" and their allies in the Pakistan government, trained, armed and financed the Taliban to clear the southern road across Afghanistan to the Central Asian Republics of extortionate bandit gangs. [11] In either or both cases, the Taliban were based in the Helmand, Kandahar and Uruzgan region, and were overwhelmingly ethnic Pashtuns and predominantly Durrani Pashtuns. They received training and arms from Pakistan although they retained some independence, often refusing the advice of the Pakistan government.

    The first major military activity of the Taliban was in October-November 1994 when they marched from Maiwand in southern Afghanistan to capture Kandahar City and the surrounding provinces, losing only a few dozen men.[12] Starting with the capture of a border crossing and a huge ammunition dump from warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a couple weeks later they freed "a convoy trying to open a trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia" from another group of warlords attempting to extort money.[13] In the next three months this hitherto "unknown force" took control of twelve of Afghanistan's 34 provinces, with Mujahideen warlords often surrendering to them without a fight and the "heavily armed population" giving up their weapons.[14] By September 1996 they captured Afghanistan's capital, Kabul.
  • Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Jlew i do wonder sometimes do you get your ideas from anywhere other than fox news?

    Oh and please check out the meaning of propaganda heres a link to wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

    you might stop repeating fox news so much after you learn about this new amazing little word.


    "Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist."
    again with these baseless personal attacks. is that all you got?
  • Posts: 17,117
    jlew24asu wrote:
    it still comes down to the area in question. these tribal areas shouldnt even be considered pakistan. but it is, so its treated and defended as such.
    so if it isnt even pakistan what the hell are we waiting for? i honetly think it is a tad naive to think we "cant" go into a tribal area of western pakistan to extract the worlds most wanted man?
    its a fucked up country, that much I know. I dont believe the country can be control any other way.

    i am sorry to see you advocating authoritarian rule and the oppresion of any people or country. you might want to think about that position for a while. pakistans people are just that, people just like me and you. its a pretty sad stance for an american. esecially one that advocated the escalation of the iraq war to try and ensure "freedom and democracy" :rolleyes:
  • Posts: 10,118
    my2hands wrote:
    so if it isnt even pakistan what the hell are we waiting for?
    dude thats just my opinion. obviously the tribal areas are considered pakistan and are defended as such and recongized by the internaltional community as pakistan.
    my2hands wrote:
    i honetly think it is a tad naive to think we "cant" go into a tribal area of western pakistan to extract the worlds most wanted man?
    sadly yes. we cant go. just think about what your saying. you seem to think we CAN go. then we would be at war with pakistan. pakistan would send it army there. musaraf might get overthrown, the country HAS nukes. India would probably get involved. I dont think I need to explain to you the consequences of going into pakistan.

    my2hands wrote:
    i am sorry to see you advocating authoritarian rule and the oppresion of any people or country. you might want to think about that position for a while.
    of course I dont like it. but look what good it has done in Iraq. you know me, I'm all for deomcracy and freedom. you think i'm "advocating" otherwise? whats the alternative, invade every country that has a dictator? dont try to sit there and have a bleeding heart for people under oppressive governemnts. in that case you would be praises Bush for freeing Iraq from a very very brutal dictator.
    my2hands wrote:
    pakistans people are just that, people just like me and you. its a pretty sad stance for an american. esecially one that advocated the escalation of the iraq war to try and ensure "freedom and democracy" :rolleyes:
    dude get off it already. your bullshit and you know it. I want pakistanis, iraqis, noth Koreans, all of them to be free.
  • Posts: 945
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    The Western region of Pakistan is Bin Laden country. He is there for a reason... it provides him protection from us.
    Yet, look at the money and weapons we are giving to Pakistan. Why? Because Musharaf says he's with us on this one. Is he? I don't think he is... especially when the majority of his nation is on Bin Laden's side, not ours. We are fools for giving them our tax dollars and weapons... and Musharaf knows we are fools.

    I agree with alot of what you are saying, but our hand is being forced on this one. Pakistan is "one bullet" away from being an Islamic theocracy. Like you said, the majority of his country sides with Bin Laden. If they were to take over, they would gain control of nuclear weapons. Supporting Musharaf sucks, but it is better than the alternative.
  • Posts: 8,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    again? we never left

    I'm american, my native language is english. I can't debate with you if yuo are going to give me this jibberish

    at the time of the invasion Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates recognized them as the government of Afghanistan.


    so you are saying the country of Afghanistan is the same as the tribal areas of pakistan? at least I think thats what you are saying. your sentences are hard to figure out. but if thats the case, you are wrong. the taliban ruled the country and was the only government in place and had allowed al qaeda and bin laden OPEN free reign throughout the country.

    yuo? Jibberish? Yeah!

    Anyway my Pakistani intelligence, I think you should go in and get the guy and you don't. Pussy stance is all I can say. ;)

    He killed so many Yanks and we vowed to get him. But we are afraid to step on toes to do it. BULLSHIT that even your mentality can't twist around.

    Thanks for the chat. When you actually offer up how to go about getting him in this thread, instead of "we can't go there" it will be a much better conversation. Until then...................................
    You've changed your place in this world!

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