Ralph Nader

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  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Yes, as I've already stated numerous times, I voted for Kerry not Gore and I consider that vote to be a mistake now. I was voting for someone I believed in, I was voting out of fear. It's nice when we can inform ourselves more then admit and learn from our mistakes. We decided it was way past time to break this cycle.


    i think you missed my intention... it was to point out the hypocricy of pointing the finger of blame at everyone else for "perpetuating the system by voting for it"... when you guys voted for kerry on 2004... now you want to act all high and mighty like voting 3rd party is saving the world :rolleyes:


    at least we don't help perpetuate the system by voting for it time and time again ~ el kabong, John Kerry supporter in 2004
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    El_Kabong wrote:
    lol how long did it take you to find that little nugget?? it's pretty telling that you have to dig something up that happened 38 or so years ago....

    and i don't want to hear anything about anyone ignoring things from you

    thats been out there... there is no need for me to post it over and over again as i see that as a waste of energy


    just wanted to pull the cape off of superman for a second as a reminder
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    my2hands wrote:
    thats been out there... there is no need for me to post it over and over again as i see that as a waste of energy


    just wanted to pull the cape off of superman for a second as a reminder


    no body ever claimed he was superman, in fact i never even said i was voting for him!

    BUT i do think he's faaaaaaaar better than the 3 corporate candidates

    i'll take over some 'insider trading' from back in 1970 over any of the shit that's been posted about obama that actually happened this millennium
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    El_Kabong wrote:
    no body ever claimed he was superman, in fact i never even said i was voting for him!

    BUT i do think he's faaaaaaaar better than the 3 corporate candidates

    i'll take over some 'insider trading' from back in 1970 over any of the shit that's been posted about obama that actually happened this millennium


    McCain voter eh, that explains alot ;)
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    let me put it to you this way..

    A McWar presidency would be utterly disasterous. We are dangerously close to running the country off a cliff, if it can be righted at all.

    You go ahead and vote for the "right thing" or the way it "should be".

    I will be voting against McCain so he will not be president. The only way that will not happen is to vote for a Dem.

    start looking for a realistic 3rd party candidate for 2012.

    you know, like one who actually believes he can win.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    let me put it to you this way..

    A McWar presidency would be utterly disasterous. We are dangerously close to running the country off a cliff, if it can be righted at all.

    You go ahead and vote for the "right thing" or the way it "should be".

    I will be voting against McCain so he will not be president. The only way that will not happen is to vote for a Dem.

    start looking for a realistic 3rd party candidate for 2012.

    you know, like one who actually believes he can win.

    McCain = Hillary = Obama

    Picking the lesser of three evils is what it is, a vote for 'evil'.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Collin wrote:
    McCain = Hillary = Obama

    that is absolutely absurd...


    anyone that thinks obama is the same as mccain is very confused
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    my2hands wrote:
    that is absolutely absurd...


    anyone that thinks obama is the same as mccain is very confused

    I meant it like this.

    I do see their policies aren't exactly the same. But it's more of the same bullshit.

    The US government has been a corrupted system for quite a while, I don't think Obama, McCain or Hillary will change that.

    Here's an analogy, say I'm against the Coca-Cola Company, McCain is good old Coke, Hillary is Coke light and Obama is Dasani. Different flavours, different drinks. You can say Coke and Coke light are bad for your health and Dasani water is more healthy, and it might be true, but it's still bottled by the same company.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    Collin wrote:
    McCain = Hillary = Obama

    Picking the lesser of three evils is what it is, a vote for 'evil'.

    that's exactly what they said about Gore vs. Bush. It was Bullshit then, It's Bullshit now.

    I all but guarentee you we would not be in Iraq if Gore had won the election.

    give McWar the presidency he will take it as a pass for more Iraq and additional conflict and perhaps worse.

    If you cannot see that, you are an immense fool.
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    Collin wrote:
    Here's an analogy, say I'm against the Coca-Cola Company, McCain is good old Coke, Hillary is Coke light and Obama is Dasani. Different flavours, different drinks. You can say Coke and Coke light are bad for your health and Dasani water is more healthy, and it might be true, but it's still bottled by the same company.

    so, to use your analogy...


    We should convince everyone to switch from Coke to Wheat grass juice overnight?


    yeah, good luck with that.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    so, to use your analogy...

    We should convince everyone to switch from Coke to Wheat grass juice overnight?

    yeah, good luck with that.


    I'm not telling people what they should be doing. I'm not even American. But I'm against these untouchable leaders sponsered by big corporations and supported by the media.

    The US president is a very powerful person (or instrument), and US policies and politics affect and shape the world enormously. I don't think Obama, Hillary or McCain will do what is right for the US citizens, let alone non-American people. They are all part of that "corporate, military, government" circle which has been ruling the US for too long and which has slowly poisoned the ideals on which the US was built.

    If I were American, a vote for one of these three candidates would be a vote for everything I'm against.

    I'm not going to say you're wrong. Because I understand what you're saying. I just believe that if you truly want change, you should vote for change and not the lesser of evils.

    If you want to stop something, fight against something, change something... you will not achieve it by voting for it and supporting it.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    Collin wrote:
    I'm not telling people what they should be doing. I'm not even American. But I'm against these untouchable leaders sponsered by big corporations and supported by the media.

    The US president is a very powerful person (or instrument), and US policies and politics affect and shape the world enormously. I don't think Obama, Hillary or McCain will do what is right for the US citizens, let alone non-American people. They are all part of that "corporate, military, government" circle which has been ruling the US for too long and which has slowly poisoned the ideals on which the US was built.

    If I were American, a vote for one of these three candidates would be a vote for everything I'm against.

    I'm not going to say you're wrong. Because I understand what you're saying. I just believe that if you truly want change, you should vote for change and not the lesser of evils.

    If you want to stop something, fight against something, change something... you will not achieve it by voting for it and supporting it.

    In a perfect world you would be right.

    this is our system. you have to do the best with what you have.

    If you vote for change and not only doesn't it change it gets MUCH worse (as I believe it would under McWar)....

    IT"S NOT CHANGE!! IT'S COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE!!

    anyone who thinks otherwise has been in a coma the last 7 years.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    In a perfect world you would be right.

    this is our system. you have to do the best with what you have.

    If you vote for change and not only doesn't it change it gets MUCH worse (as I believe it would under McWar)....

    IT"S NOT CHANGE!! IT'S COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE!!

    anyone who thinks otherwise has been in a coma the last 7 years.


    the only reason it doesn't bring change is b/c none of you will are willing to take part until you see everyone else is doing it. YOU are the ones voting the dems in and helping keep it this way!! you have only yourselves to blame

    if a 3rd party candidate was polling at 30% would you vote for him/her? they only get those numbers by.....duh, ppl voting for them! you have to support them, not just wait to jump on the 3rd party bandwagon
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    so, to use your analogy...


    We should convince everyone to switch from Coke to Wheat grass juice overnight?


    yeah, good luck with that.


    so, to use your analogy....

    even tho i know wheat grass juice is better and is not manufactured from exploitation and murder i must still drink coke b/c you and some others think coke will always have the bigger slice of the drink market so i might as well just accept that and give in?

    yeah, good luck w/ that!

    i think the point you missed was why would collin support a company he doesn't support and does bad things??? just b/c the sodas aren't as 'healthy' as the water it's still supporting something you say you are against
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    El_Kabong wrote:
    so, to use your analogy....

    even tho i know wheat grass juice is better and is not manufactured from exploitation and murder i must still drink coke b/c you and some others think coke will always have the bigger slice of the drink market so i might as well just accept that and give in?

    yeah, good luck w/ that!

    i think the point you missed was why would collin support a company he doesn't support and does bad things??? just b/c the sodas aren't as 'healthy' as the water it's still supporting something you say you are against

    no, I completely got it.
    El_Kabong wrote:
    the only reason it doesn't bring change is b/c none of you will are willing to take part until you see everyone else is doing it. YOU are the ones voting the dems in and helping keep it this way!! you have only yourselves to blame

    if a 3rd party candidate was polling at 30% would you vote for him/her? they only get those numbers by.....duh, ppl voting for them! you have to support them, not just wait to jump on the 3rd party bandwagon

    I am waiting for a viable candidate

    face it, for it to happen quickly and effectivley it would have to be George Clooney or something. he is well known and well liked, has great ideas, is a great activist, already wealthy, and has great fundraising ability. Not to mention that the press follows him incessently, so no problem with tv coverage.

    I understand your points and I hope you understand mine.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    anyone who thinks otherwise has been in a coma the last 7 years.

    The last 7 years are exactly what you are voting for. You say so yourself, you're voting for the lesser of evil. The stress should be on evil and not on lesser.

    Do you think your country is headed in the right direction? You're only postponing the inevitable by voting for Obama.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    no, I completely got it.



    I am waiting for a viable candidate

    face it, for it to happen quickly and effectivley it would have to be George Clooney or something. he is well known and well liked, has great ideas, is a great activist, already wealthy, and has great fundraising ability. Not to mention that the press follows him incessently, so no problem with tv coverage.

    I understand your points and I hope you understand mine.

    we are at a point where petty protest will put us in the shitter.

    It's not petty protest.

    It's about following my beliefs based on what I know to be the truth. Change will, indeed, be gradual but no change will even start if those of us who do know won't act boldly enough to start the process. Gradual change means people start becoming more aware and stop supporting the Dems and Reps because of it. Guess what? We are the beginnings of that gradual change and we have to be the example and make our decisions based on what we have became aware of now or the change will never even start!!

    If you are aware that the Dems have been bought and sold and that they have did a pitiful job of representing the people then you don't keep supporting them anyway. It makes no sense except that you're allowing you vote to be made in fear of republicans. You're supposed stand up for what's right because no one is going to do it for you. If everyone follows your solution there will never be change because you guys are willing to excuse ANYTHING Obama does just as long as he falls short of actually morphing into John McCain.

    Sorry but that's not my idea of progress. And many of us will once again not be voting for a Democrat this year and for good reasons. We're not coming back to supporting the Dems...we'll just keep on waiting for the rest of you to get fed up as we are.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    I am waiting for a viable candidate

    There will never be one if people perpetually vote in the lesser of two evils.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • Hoon
    Hoon Posts: 175
    The language that you allow to infect your political dialog now to support your candidates and put down others becomes the language that our future reality will be built on.

    We are eroding All of our progress.

    See, the truth will set us free. Always speak truthfully from the heart. Don't let the motivation of trying to win dictate what comes forth from you. Don't be afraid to admit you are wrong and refine your previous views.

    The hole you have the courage Now to bore in the dam will later release a river that will then lift your boat. ;>P 8o)

    Don't try to win. . . together, aim for a conclusion built on what is shared in THIS light.

    Always, All Ways.
    If you keep yourself as the final arbiter you will be less susceptible to infection from cultural illusion.
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    start now

    so, how many elections do we give to the republicans before we can get a viable 3rd party?

    the way I look at it, a win for McWar MIGHT potentially mean no election in 2012 because we could all be dead.

    You should start actively campaining for nader. convince people!

    You are a failure in this thread not because you have illusions about a 3rd party but because you did not inspire me to vote for nader.

    If you believe it as deeply as you say you do take it to the streets and get to work.

    stick a fork in me I'm DONE!

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