Put Away the Flags

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  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    don't gimme no wrote:
    Great post, Moe. You made a great point and I'm glad you did. It seems only fair to celebrate the good on the anniversary of independence. But that's all your getting, damnit! One day! And then it's back to fighting for what's right and fighting for the day we can realize the dream that our founding fathers intending this country to be.

    agreed. :)
    funny too, a new thread today on one of zinn's articles...and i really liked what it had to say about the declaration of independence and what is a patriot...one who upholds the ideals, not the governemnt...and it actually made me think of this thread/issue...it's kinda how i view celebrating independence day and displaying the flag on such a holiday.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    moeaholic wrote:
    see, i don't look at the flag and think of politicians. i look at the flag and think of the history of the people that made this country what it is. for one day, just for one day out of the year, is it that difficult for people to do? put the political bickering to the side and honor the country that was made by the citizens? just one day. it's not even 24 hours. if you sleep till noon, it's a half day. honestly, it breaks my heart to see people write some of the things i've seen around here. they're ashamed of their country. they're embarrassed of their country. they're on the brink of moving out of the country because of the shame they have. don't be ashamed of your country, be proud of it. be proud of your heritage in this country. there are 364 other days in the year for people to voice their hatred for everything wrong with this country. can't people take a day off? there are people i work with that i absolutely can't stand, but every year on their birthday i wish them a happy one.


    fair enough...good post man. Take a few hours to celebrate the good.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    decides2dream wrote:
    agreed. :)
    funny too, a new thread today on one of zinn's articles...and i really liked what it had to say about the declaration of independence and what is a patriot...one who upholds the ideals, not the governemnt...and it actually made me think of this thread/issue...it's kinda how i view celebrating independence day and displaying the flag on such a holiday.


    flying a flag does absolutely nothing to uphold the ideals of this country. just look at the typical person who flies one or has a magnet on their car...shrugs their shoulders and quietly looks the other way or just flips on american idol while more and more of our rights are taken from us in the name of 'protection'. they do nothing to actually change things, they probably never even voted outside the 2 parties (plz keep in mind i am generalizing, not being all encompassing)

    and as the other zinn article state, in the words of Mark Twain:
    We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had -- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    The day the American society takes the time out their busy consuming to actually uphold the ideals this country was founded upon then I will proudly fly our flag. All I can see it as now is arrogance....maybe one day it will mean something to me again.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    DUCK!

    incoming north korean nuke...


    oops, sorry... it was a large bird... my bad ;)
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    El_Kabong wrote:
    flying a flag does absolutely nothing to uphold the ideals of this country. just look at the typical person who flies one or has a magnet on their car...shrugs their shoulders and quietly looks the other way or just flips on american idol while more and more of our rights are taken from us in the name of 'protection'. they do nothing to actually change things, they probably never even voted outside the 2 parties (plz keep in mind i am generalizing, not being all encompassing)

    and as the other zinn article state, in the words of Mark Twain:
    We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had -- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.

    did i say it did?
    nope.
    i don't even pretend to know for certain what others think/feel simply b/c they slap a flag or a sticker on their car...i actually wait to meet them before even hazarding a guess...so i have nothing to add there.

    i said for many of us, it's a symbol of the ideals. if it's not for you, fine.
    and yea thanks...i read that just fine the first time. i am making my own parallels.....as we all may do from whatever we read/listen/watch. it just struck me in that sense.

    btw - never suggested one can't/shouldn't oppose the flag if they so desire. i think in my first post on this thread in fact i offered my full support for flag-burning.

    it's all perspective. sure, events are what they are...i am not denying ANY of our grotesque/misguided/wrong acts...i am also not discounting the good done either. feel free to focus on what you desire, wasn't even suggesting otherwise. a country is a sum of its parts, both good and bad...and while i am displeased to put it mildly where we are...i refuse to not acknowledge the good that does/can/has existed too. nothing more.

    so if choose to perceive flying my flag as a sign of support to the ideals of this country, tis my personal perogative, as it is yours or anyone else's to think and do otherwise. i never said the act of flying a flag actually makes a bit of difference.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    decides2dream wrote:
    did i say it did?
    nope.
    i don't even pretend to know for certain what others think/feel simply b/c they slap a flag or a sticker on their car...i actually wait to meet them before even hazarding a guess...so i have nothing to add there.

    i said for many of us, it's a symbol of the ideals. if it's not for you, fine.
    and yea thanks...i read that just fine the first time. i am making my own parallels.....as we all may do from whatever we read/listen/watch. it just struck me in that sense.

    btw - never suggested one can't/shouldn't oppose the flag if they so desire. i think in my first post on this thread in fact i offered my full support for flag-burning.

    it's all perspective. sure, events are what they are...i am not denying ANY of our grotesque/misguided/wrong acts...i am also not discounting the good done either. feel free to focus on what you desire, wasn't even suggesting otherwise. a country is a sum of its parts, both good and bad...and while i am displeased to put it mildly where we are...i refuse to not acknowledge the good that does/can/has existed too. nothing more.

    so if choose to perceive flying my flag as a sign of support to the ideals of this country, tis my personal perogative, as it is yours or anyone else's to think and do otherwise. i never said the act of flying a flag actually makes a bit of difference.

    it's called point/counter point...it's what we do here. we discuss each others views on things.

    no one has suggested you have to follow any of the views posted.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    it's called point/counter point...it's what we do here. we discuss each others views on things.

    no one has suggested you have to follow any of the views posted.

    well thanks for pointing that out. :)

    thought i was doing the same.
    i enjoy the condescension though, its a sweet touch. enjoy!
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    decides2dream wrote:
    well thanks for pointing that out. :)

    thought i was doing the same.
    i enjoy the condescension though, its a sweet touch. enjoy!

    Just sensed a bit of over defensiveness is all. I must have been completely wrong.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    now shake hands ladies :D
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    sadly, this is what many ppl associate the flag with

    http://www.patdollard.com/
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • elmer
    elmer Posts: 1,683
    I totally agree with the Zinneth dictum(well the one in question anyhow)

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