Put Away the Flags

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  • abook and el-kabong do you guys reside in the u.s? if you hate your country so much you could easily move.....*shrugs*

    I don't hate this country at all...I just know it can be so much better, so much more and I am willing to work towards that goal. I don't like to give up on a dream.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,999
    Can you drink the tapwater in Australia? If you can, don't bet on doing it anywhere else, 'cept Canada and the U.S. It's just not worthy the risk.

    of course we bloody can. it is why we have such stringent quarantine laws.
    hey ASL there's nothing wrong with the water in sydney. though maybe after 40 years i'm used to it. have you tasted brisvegas' water.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • don't bother. krispy kreme donuts are shit.
    they have this substance in them that they try and palm off as cream. it's disgusting. as a fellow aussie i'm warning you now. don't do it. one of those double chocolate donuts from wendy's is better.

    Wendy's serves donuts in Australia?! Cool.

    Krispy Kreme donuts are kind of like America: they're just too frickin' sweet for some people!
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • actually ASL i meant donut king not wendy's. apologies for that momentary lapse of knowing-what-the-hell-i-was-talking-about.
    okay go ahead. but don't say you weren't warned. :) just promise me you'll stay away from the 'cream' filled ones.

    Donut King must be taking a hammering here atm, with everyone wanting to try Krispy Kreme. I will remember your warning but I think curiosity will get the better of me and I'll have to try a few of those bad boys. Drive-thru donut stores...only an American would think of something like that....LOL.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • Well in Adelaide you shouldn't do it and Sydney's isn't that great but the drinking water here in Melbourne is just fine (supposed to be the best in the world but I haven't tested that theory). The drinking water in New Zealand is as good as that found anywhere in Australia. I bet you can drink the tap water in Norway or Sweden or Germany for instance.

    Nope been to Germany, can't do it.

    And it's not really like you can drink the tapwater anywhere in the US. I couldn't do it in Texas. I mean I COULD, but it tasted and felt like drinking concrete that hadn't soldified. Not pleasant.
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • I don't hate this country at all...I just know it can be so much better, so much more and I am willing to work towards that goal. I don't like to give up on a dream.

    okay fair enough....i don't mean to get personal its just i've never seen you or el kabong say anything remotely positive about the country you choose to call home (if i'm wrong then i apologise). i think there are plenty of things wrong with my country but i still say its the best place to live on earth. (even during these cold melbourne winters LOL)
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    You people are so fucking predictable! I guess Krispy Kreme is having people murdered in Africa right now, to keep grease and sugar prices low, yeah that's it. Why don't you just admit that you think the U.S. and "consumerism" are responsible for all the world's ills? That's the only possible explanation for "consumerism at the expense of a couple million lives." You make it sound as if I run my house of off starving children I throw into a giant Nazi-style incinerator. You sad people. You don't live in reality, and I'm growing weary of arguing against your tenebrous grasp of world events and history. You all need psychiatric help.


    i see it's impossible to have a civilized debate w/ you w/o you calling ppl names or insulting them

    krispy kreme probably hasn't done anything on a global scale, does that mean GE didn't sell munitions to Hitler even after we got involved?

    you're not throwing anyone in ovens, just installing dictators and death squads to keep the ppl in line.

    i don't hate america, i think we should take responsibility for our actions and STOP

    until you can grow up and stop pretending your actions and overconsumption don't have any consequences outside our borders on a MASS SCALE there really isn't a point in spending anymore time on you
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Nope been to Germany, can't do it.

    And it's not really like you can drink the tapwater anywhere in the US. I couldn't do it in Texas. I mean I COULD, but it tasted and felt like drinking concrete that hadn't soldified. Not pleasant.

    I don't normally drink tap-water but its perfectly fine to take a swill (or even a cup) of water here without zero chance of getting sick. They put chloride and flouride in the water which also helps. As catefrances said there is a very good reason why Australia has such tight controls on what comes into the country. I think the vast distances enjoyed by Australia (and NZ) contribute greatly to why they are good places to live.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,999
    Wendy's serves donuts in Australia?! Cool.

    Krispy Kreme donuts are kind of like America: they're just too frickin' sweet for some people!

    sweet? try over processed to within an inch of its life.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • memememe Posts: 4,692
    The only flag I plan on flying today is the Italian one, should we win the world cup match against Germany :p

    I remember a few days after September 11 (I was living in New Jersey at the time) a woman called in a radio program and said she would keep her flag in the drawer until she could be proud of her country again. This was when the flag inflation was at its dawn.

    I agree with the article, and having grown up in Italy in the 70s I'm really not a flag person at all.

    I will not think ill of anyone flying the American flag today, it's like displaying the picture of family members you don't necessarily like, but still love. Those who fly it every single day, however, or have it sticking to their cars... :rolleyes:

    The friends I'm celebrating with though have this flying on their pole :)

    http://www.gettysburgflag.com/images/earth.jpg
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    sweet? try over processed to within an inch of its life.

    it's disgusting how much over processed food is in the avg american diet
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • The best donuts on earth I reckon are the ones they sell here at Australian Rules Football games at these cool little donut vans. They are COVERED with sugar and with jam inside and they are the best damn things ever invented by mankind! LOL
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • meme wrote:
    The only flag I plan on flying today is the Italian one, should we win the world cup match against Germany :p

    I remember a few days after September 11 (I was living in New Jersey at the time) a woman called in a radio program and said she would keep her flag in the drawer until she could be proud of her country again. This was when the flag inflation was at its dawn.

    I agree with the article, and having grown up in Italy in the 70s I'm really not a flag person at all.

    I will not think ill of anyone flying the American flag today, it's like displaying the picture of family members you don't necessarily like, but still love. Those who fly it every single day, however, or have it sticking to their cars... :rolleyes:

    The friends I'm celebrating with though have this flying on their pole :)

    http://www.gettysburgflag.com/images/earth.jpg

    Now there's a flag I can get behind, We have to come to terms and learn to coexist with the rest of the world as a whole, where every life is equal and just as precious as our own. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,999
    El_Kabong wrote:
    it's disgusting how much over processed food is in the avg american diet

    you know i'm coming over at the end of my next uni semester and besides the fear of accidently ticking the 'yes i am a terrorist' box, natural food is my biggest concern. i know i may be over reacting just a little but i don't eat fast food so it is a major consideration for me. and that water thing. are you guys serious about only drinking bottled water?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • okay fair enough....i don't mean to get personal its just i've never seen you or el kabong say anything remotely positive about the country you choose to call home (if i'm wrong then i apologise). i think there are plenty of things wrong with my country but i still say its the best place to live on earth. (even during these cold melbourne winters LOL)

    I have said in this thread even that we have a lot of potential and I think we were founded on worthwhile notions. But now we have to live up to our own expectations. If this country is headed in the right direction then I will say so. If not then I will denounce it. I refuse to stand behind a course that is wrong in my eyes just because I reside here. Wrong is wrong no matter where you were born. When this country is something to be proud of again then I would love to be the first to brag about it and celebrate. But I will not show pride until it is deserved....it would be meaningless. As of now I see not to much to celebrate.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,999
    The best donuts on earth I reckon are the ones they sell here at Australian Rules Football games at these cool little donut vans. They are COVERED with sugar and with jam inside and they are the best damn things ever invented by mankind! LOL

    OMG yes!
    i knew melbourne was good for something :p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    you know i'm coming over at the end of my next uni semester and besides the fear of accidently ticking the 'yes i am a terrorist' box, natural food is my biggest concern. i know i may be over reacting just a little but i don't eat fast food so it is a major consideration for me. and that water thing. are you guys serious about only drinking bottled water?


    well, of course it depends on the area the water is coming from, but most of the water tables are polluted.

    where i lived in both northern virginia and south carolina i could tell a big difference in drinking tap water over filtered/bottled/...water. taste, smell...and the tape water has fluoride in it.

    when i lived in virginia i had a pitcher w/ a filter in it or one on the sink. now i buy it from a place called garner's natural market

    we bought a 3 gallon container w/ a spout for something like $16, then it only costs $0.49/gallon to refill it.

    i doubt you'd get sick or anything from drinking the water on your trip but it just won't be clean.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • OMG yes!
    i knew melbourne was good for something :p

    ah melboune is cultured....melbourne is learned....melbourne has class! :p
    and we have roadways that don't go around in circles and melbourne is always ahead of sydney in the most liveable cities in the world surveys! hehe
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,999
    ah melboune is cultured....melbourne is learned....melbourne has class! :p
    and we have roadways that don't go around in circles and melbourne is always ahead of sydney in the most liveable cities in the world surveys! hehe


    we have sunshine :p

    not to mention that melbourne is the home of organised crime. you want a hit done. go to melbourne. :p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,999
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i doubt you'd get sick or anything from drinking the water on your trip but it just won't be clean.

    oh i'm not worried about getting sick. it's getting fresh stuff that i'm thinking about. somewhere to get decent lebanese or vegetarian food would be a help. organic growers markets. that kind of thing.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    Ok, I know I give out about the US quite a bit but what’s wrong with flying your flag and showing a bit of ACTUAL pride in your country?

    ‘why do i 'need' to? have i given off some sort of dreaded, rah-rah american vibe?’

    No you weren’t D2D. I don’t understand all this to be honest. I know I give out about the English flag but I wouldn’t expect English people to agree with me. I find it quite weird that some people are against flying their own flag on their own national day :confused: .

    ‘it's a sad day when showing any inkling of pride of your nationalistic roots needs to be defended.’

    I agree completely.

    ‘Can you drink the tapwater in Australia? If you can, don't bet on doing it anywhere else, 'cept Canada and the U.S. It's just not worthy the risk.’

    LMAO… well I’ve been drinking Irish tap water all me life and I’ve yet to experience any side effects :confused: Actually I've heard it's better for ya than bottled water :cool:
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • we have sunshine :p

    not to mention that melbourne is the home of organised crime. you want a hit done. go to melbourne. :p

    our crime is organised....your crime is a bunch of ratbags going around redfern causing chaos....:p
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    There are plenty of left leaning intellectuals in this world but there is only 1 Howard Zinn.

    Thank god.

    See you later, I'm going to hang my flag right now. Reasons you want? Spite. Yeah thats right. Spite. ;)
    Actually, I personally AM proud of my country, not for its mistakes, but for all the good it does. For giving me a place to live free, persue my dreams, and for my kids to do the same. Zinn's a profiteer, he makes money off you. Just like Ed. Dissent is big bucks these days. Its "in". Its fasionable. Guess im not hip. Good.
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    So now Zinn gets to decide who gets to fly a flag, and who doesn't?! That's interesting. I find it funny that he can't come to terms that most people in America, in fact...the great majority of Americans...have the same sense of nationalism as the Swiss, or those living in Costa Rica. It's just pride in ones own country, and in all of the good things that we stand for as a nation. We celebrate it once a yearl. Once a year. And now even THAT is too much for some of you. Unbelievable. I bet quite a few liberal, anti Iraq American citizens will be eating BBQ and shooting off fireworks this year...AND flying their flag. It's sad that people like Zinn can look at the flag and ONLY see what they believe are the negatives that it represents. Why can't they see the postives too? You would think that if someone loved this country so much, they would be willing to acknowledge it's positive aspects every once in awhile. Does the flag not represent the suffrage movement for women, the emancipation proclamation, allowing immigrants to come here and better their lives? Does it not stand for those things anymore? What about the endless list of other positives about America?

    It's funny to think that people believe we shouldn't celebrate our nationalism until this country is re-worked and molded into ideal that THEY want. Talk about scary. That doesn't sound like the celebration and acceptance of differing ideals and principles that I hear talked about so much around here. It sounds more like a theory circa 1939. I remember other leaders who altered nationalism to conform to extreme ideals, took God out of the public realm, supported taking away gun rights, and who thought that national pride should only be celebrated once THEIR ideals were brought into place. And...it didn't work out very well.

    We might not all agree on US foreign and domestic policy, but it's a damn shame that we can't all agree that the flag reperesents at least SOME decent and good things about America...and at least for a day...be proud of our country and the good things that the flag stands for, and be happy that it affords us the right to come on this board and express our grievences every day in peace, with the legal right to do so.

    Regardless of politcal policy, a lot of people have gone to war with the very notion of protecting that ideal, and a lot of people have spilled blood for it. You would think that would mean something.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,315
    hailhailkc, I'm thinking that Zinn has simply decided that the negatives outweigh the postives. i dont perceive him as a dour individual always looking for something to bitch about. its just that he can't deny the truth, and i'm with him.

    hey i was lovin the firework display i saw last night. but i dont feel an urge to fly an american flag around, ever. funny he brought up Norway because I do have Norwegian flags around the house and I feel inspired to celebrate Norwegian indepedence day on May 17. the red white and blue of the norwegian flag were actually inspired by the colors of the American flag and what they stood for, but I think the truth is self-evident: Norway has done a great deal to advance the values of liberal democracy, whereas America is creating a brave new world of fascism.
  • Zinn's a profiteer, he makes money off you. Just like Ed. Dissent is big bucks these days.

    Shh! Don't be a party pooper.
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • kenny olav wrote:
    Norway has done a great deal to advance the values of liberal democracy, whereas America is creating a brave new world of fascism.

    Why don't you live in Norway?
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • LizardLizard So CalPosts: 11,915
    Wow! Just saw the discussion. And I was not being saracastic...I am not in la-la land thinking our country is THE BEST and GREATEST on earth but I do have patriotism. I would like to support the ideals. There is still a lot of good done by Americans for many people (Habitat for Humanity comes to mind) exclusive of the government and I support those people/groups.
    Carry on.
    :D.

    and i might have written more in my first post if i was not tired. ")
    Is it over yet? #ITMFA
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,917
    A flag is just a symbol ... Putting it away won't do shit.
  • A flag is just a symbol ... Putting it away won't do shit.

    neither will flying it.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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