Put Away the Flags

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Comments

  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,928
    El_Kabong wrote:
    fair enough, but this seemed like you were taking issue w/ something

    "i was merely elaborating my personal thoughts on the subject...i thought that was what we did here"


    b/c it seemed there were complaints for not elaborating in another post...i chose to elaborate, and then it seemed like what? i didn't understand? again...i was merely elaborating, and sure..perhaps being a little smartassy in saying 'that's what we did here'...only in response to the comments earlier asking for as much. i hardly thought it needed explanation, though it fairly obvious. so no issue was taken, merely a little humor. since i was thanked for 'at least taking the time' for stating my thoughts.

    so, fair enough.

    anyway, obviously, i do not view our country in the same light as many of you. sure, LOTS of things wrong...imperfect...soooo much to work on...but sure, i do think that at its core, the ideals are there...even if not well-orchestrated as of yet. call me a dreamer, an optimist...but i do like to also see the GOOD there is, even amongst all the bad...and yes, i can focus on that, and celebrate that. so however, if at at all, you celebrate....i hope you all have a lovely holiday....or at least enjoy a beautiful summer day with hopefully a paid day off....or at least earn some overtime ;)...whatever. enjoy. :)
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    b/c it seemed there were complaints for not elaborating in another post...i chose to elaborate, and then it seemed like what? i didn't understand? again...i was merely elaborating, and sure..perhaps being a little smartassy in saying 'that's what we did here'...only in response to the comments earlier asking for as much. i hardly thought it needed explanation, though it fairly obvious. so no issue was taken, merely a little humor. since i was thanked for 'at least taking the time' for stating my thoughts.

    so, fair enough.

    anyway, obviously, i do not view our country in the same light as many of you. sure, LOTS of things wrong...imperfect...soooo much to work on...but sure, i do think that at its core, the ideals are there...even if not well-orchestrated as of yet. call me a dreamer, an optimist...but i do like to also see the GOOD there is, even amongst all the bad...and yes, i can focus on that, and celebrate that. so however, if at at all, you celebrate....i hope you all have a lovely holiday....or at least enjoy a beautiful summer day with hopefully a paid day off....or at least earn some overtime ;)...whatever. enjoy. :)

    can you at least admit the hypocrisy that the united states is so often swathed in?
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    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
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  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,928
    can you at least admit the hypocrisy that the united states is so often swathed in?


    why do i 'need' to? have i given off some sort of dreaded, rah-rah american vibe? i thought i was pretty clear in my personal reasons for displaying the flag on a national holiday. obviously, i KNOW and fully admit there is much hypocrisy in america..i did not think any of my posts reflected otherwise. it's a sad day when showing any inkling of pride of your nationalistic roots needs to be defended. hypocrisy exists in the states, and sadly being such a large and powerful nation the reprecussions of such reverberate thruout the world. however, my display of the flag has nothing to do with that...but more with the ideals of the nations, and yes...in support of the many verterans i personally know and am related to. while i have great respect for zinn, his words and thoughts...i do not fully agree/support every thing the man espouses....which i hardly find surprising, i don't think there is ANYone who's views i fully support 100%.....but yea, i have my own personal beliefs too.

    anyhoo....i'm off to talk pearl jam and maybe bbqs....you all have fun. :)
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


  • El_Kabong wrote:
    you are picking a tiny part of the article and trying to use it as a basis to discredit the entire piece.

    the problem is we, as a society, don't want to accept WHY we are so prosperous. we love the benefits of it but we don't really care about the repurcussions we have on the rest of the world that allows us to achieve that 'prosperity'.

    you mention cambodia...at the same time we were selling arms to indonesia who were using them to commit genocide in east timor...same fucking time that pol pot was in power. what about the mass graves in panama to get an old cia agent who stopped following orders out of power? what about us overthrowing a democratic government in iran b/c they wanted to nationalize THEIR oil and installing a ruthless thug which lead way to the nuts being in power now? what about us turning nicaragua from one of the strongest economies in the region to one of the poorest in the world b/c they had this crazy idea that their land and resources shuold be owned by them? what about the death squads we installed in el salvador? how did we get hawaii again? how did we get florida? wasn't bin laden working for the cia when he created al qaeda?

    maybe i'm a party pooper but i choose to live in reality, it goes from the earliest days of the nation alllllll the way to now...i believe in the potential of this nation but i have yet to see it honestly worked towards for very long...one step forward and 20 back.

    however, i also understand pll holding different meanings of the flag and celebrating/honoring that and that is fine


    What do any of those random instances of alleged misdeeds on the part of the U.S. have to do with anything I wrote? The article said that nationalism is fine in small nations, but real bad n' stuff in bigger ones, specifically America, but it did generalize. I provided counter examples. Ones specific to the nations cited, in fact. What about all that stuff, anyway? All you've done is prove you can name a bunch of (pretty minor) historical events. I can think of dozens of more significant blemishes on American history, so it's not like your earning any lefty street cred here. It’s also ridiculous to claim that we, as a society, don't want to accept WHY we are so prosperous without giving any examples of how any of these "repercussions" have put money into the average American's pocket. Do we really not want to accept it? Or is the truth just less romantic. Speaking of people not accepting the reasons for their prosperity, here's something that might make your head explode: how many trees died to make those Howard Zinn skateboard decks they sell at the Ten Club?

    KABOOM!
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • why do i 'need' to? have i given off some sort of dreaded, rah-rah american vibe? i thought i was pretty clear in my personal reasons for displaying the flag on a national holiday. obviously, i KNOW and fully admit there is much hypocrisy in america..i did not think any of my posts reflected otherwise. it's a sad day when showing any inkling of pride of your nationalistic roots needs to be defended. hypocrisy exists in the states, and sadly being such a large and powerful nation the reprecussions of such reverberate thruout the world. however, my display of the flag has nothing to do with that...but more with the ideals of the nations, and yes...in support of the many verterans i personally know and am related to. while i have great respect for zinn, his words and thoughts...i do not fully agree/support every thing the man espouses....which i hardly find surprising, i don't think there is ANYone who's views i fully support 100%.....but yea, i have my own personal beliefs too.

    anyhoo....i'm off to talk pearl jam and maybe bbqs....you all have fun. :)

    You seem to be a bit overly defensive. We are merely trying to discuss the points in the piece.

    have a nice 4th.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • thanks for posting the zinn article, abook. as always, a good read.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    why do i 'need' to? have i given off some sort of dreaded, rah-rah american vibe? i thought i was pretty clear in my personal reasons for displaying the flag on a national holiday. obviously, i KNOW and fully admit there is much hypocrisy in america..i did not think any of my posts reflected otherwise. it's a sad day when showing any inkling of pride of your nationalistic roots needs to be defended. hypocrisy exists in the states, and sadly being such a large and powerful nation the reprecussions of such reverberate thruout the world. however, my display of the flag has nothing to do with that...but more with the ideals of the nations, and yes...in support of the many verterans i personally know and am related to. while i have great respect for zinn, his words and thoughts...i do not fully agree/support every thing the man espouses....which i hardly find surprising, i don't think there is ANYone who's views i fully support 100%.....but yea, i have my own personal beliefs too.

    anyhoo....i'm off to talk pearl jam and maybe bbqs....you all have fun. :)

    you don't 'need' to and you answered my question anyway by saying you fully admit such hypocrisy exists. but hey be proud of your nation and your flag. i certainly am proud of my country, just not some of its actions.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    how many trees died to make those Howard Zinn skateboard decks they sell at the Ten Club?

    KABOOM!

    they sell howard zinn skate decks at the 10 club?

    that is tragic.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • they sell howard zinn skate decks at the 10 club?

    that is tragic.

    Yeah, Noam Chomsky ones too. I guess you got to get the trucks elsewhere.
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    What do any of those random instances of alleged misdeeds on the part of the U.S. have to do with anything I wrote? The article said that nationalism is fine in small nations, but real bad n' stuff in bigger ones, specifically America, but it did generalize. I provided counter examples. Ones specific to the nations cited, in fact. What about all that stuff, anyway? All you've done is prove you can name a bunch of (pretty minor) historical events. I can think of dozens of more significant blemishes on American history, so it's not like your earning any lefty street cred here. It’s also ridiculous to claim that we, as a society, don't want to accept WHY we are so prosperous without giving any examples of how any of these "repercussions" have put money into the average American's pocket. Do we really not want to accept it? Or is the truth just less romantic. Speaking of people not accepting the reasons for their prosperity, here's something that might make your head explode: how many trees died to make those Howard Zinn skateboard decks they sell at the Ten Club?

    KABOOM!


    that is exactly my point, to YOU they are labeled 'minor' to the ppl who had thousands upon thousands killed by US sponsored death squads it takes on a slightly larger role. and yes, there are other blemishes...my point was to show they happened in our lifetimes and are still happening.

    he's not saying what the other nations did is ok, he's saying it's not as dangerous, and it's not.

    you are comparing the actions of several countries and comparing them to one; the US. if you compare the actions on a single country basis it is 'benign'. as in the numbers don't come anywhere close to comparing. and at what point will it stop on our end?

    you imply we accept the repurcussions of our benefits...how? by supporting it? by shruging our shoulders?

    as for the skate decks...i don't know...but i do know the other year stone donated $5,00 to the new apollo energy project, and there's this

    Q. The band Pearl Jam worked with CI to make their 2003 tour carbon neutral. It sounds like all the cool kids are doing it. Can you explain how individuals can become carbon neutral?

    It is actually a cool thing for schools, communities, businesses and government agencies to do as well. In the case of Pearl Jam, the band offset 5,700 tons of CO2 emissions released from trucks, buses, airplane travel, hotel rooms, concert halls, plus the one million fans driving to and from the concerts. Pearl Jam is funding a joint project between CI and the Wildlife Conservation Society to create and manage a new protected area in the rain forest of Makira, Madagascar.

    To become carbon neutral, a good strategy is to look at it like a portfolio of stocks and bonds, and diversify. For example, only purchase Energy Star-rated high-efficiency appliances, computer equipment, lights, buildings, etc. Purchase the most fuel-efficient vehicles, use mass transit, bike, walk and telecommute. These actions save money and prevent not only CO2 emissions, but smog and acid rain pollutants as well. Then take some of the savings to offset the rest of your climate footprint by funding the protection of threatened rain forests, regeneration of fragmented landscapes into connected corridors of biodiversity, and purchase green power (e.g., solar and wind power).

    Of even greater potential is for each person to engage the institutions within which they participate (local governments, religious institutions, non-profits and businesses) to commit to achieving zero net CO2 emissions.


    so i'd assume they are doing something about that certain issue
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • I don't agree with the article at all, what is wrong with a bit of national pride? Following your leaders blindly (Britney Spears I'm talking about you and other rednecks) but flying a flag on the 4th of July seems fine. As an Aussie its very uncommon here but I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it. The U.S is far from perfect but compare it to past "world powers" and it looks fairly good. Compare what the Romans did in times past for instance.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • I don't agree with the article at all, what is wrong with a bit of national pride? Following your leaders blindly (Britney Spears I'm talking about you and other rednecks) but flying a flag on the 4th of July seems fine. As an Aussie its very uncommon here but I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it. The U.S is far from perfect but compare it to past "world powers" and it looks fairly good. Compare what the Romans did in times past for instance.

    What the Romans did compared to the scale of what we 'STILL' do isn't even comparable.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    we're not talking about 'history', we're talking about 'just the other day'
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • What the Romans did compared to the scale of what we 'STILL' do isn't even comparable.

    Are you trying to imply that the U.S is WORSE than the Romans? Nero burned down Rome and then tried to blame it on the Christians for goodness' sakes. Anyway its easy to say the U.S is better than other empires. I'm still annoyed that an Australian citizen in David Hicks has being held for 4 and a half years without trial in Guantamo Bay.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • "have i given off some sort of dreaded, rah-rah american vibe?"

    Well, somebody should.

    Rah-rah America! We've got Coca-Cola, a man on the moon, 50 kick-ass states, an intersate highway system, Mt Rushmore, damn near every significant invention in every field for the last few centuries, freedom from England, and shitloads of every other kind of freedom, 7 articles, 27 amendments, two houses, one president, a supreme court, apple pie, rock 'n roll, trans-atlantic flight, first flight, IPODs, Fender guitars, Superman, Batman, amber waives of grain, Mark Twain, Hollywood, the small town, the metropolis, Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge, electricity, the only drinkable tapwater on the planet, the Rocky Mountains, the Mississippi, nuclear power, modern medicine, TV dinners, the microwaves to cook them in, refrigeration, Krispy Kreme, and democracy.

    USA! USA! USA!
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • "have i given off some sort of dreaded, rah-rah american vibe?"

    Well, somebody should.

    Rah-rah America! We've got Coca-Cola, a man on the moon, 50 kick-ass states, an intersate highway system, Mt Rushmore, damn near every significant invention in every field for the last few centuries, freedom from England, and shitloads of every other kind of freedom, 7 articles, 27 amendments, two houses, one president, a supreme court, apple pie, rock 'n roll, trans-atlantic flight, first flight, IPODs, Fender guitars, Superman, Batman, amber waives of grain, Mark Twain, Hollywood, the small town, the metropolis, Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge, electricity, the only drinkable tapwater on the planet, the Rocky Mountains, the Mississippi, nuclear power, modern medicine, TV dinners, the microwaves to cook them in, refrigeration, Krispy Kreme, and democracy.

    USA! USA! USA!


    All hail the United States of Consumerism!!!!! *wipes tear from eye*
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I'm still annoyed that an Australian citizen in David Hicks has being held for 4 and a half years without trial in Guantamo Bay.

    come stand by me.
    i think it's about time we pulled that pole out of lord alex's arse.


    and about that aussie flag. i'd feel a whole lot more comfortable if it weren't for the union jack in the corner. but hey it's the only one we got.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    All hail the United States of Consumerism!!!!! *wipes tear from eye*


    united states of apathy

    i pledge allegiance to flag and all the corporations it stands for one nation under krispy kreme donuts and whatever corporations heavily invested this campaign cycle

    glad you can be proud of all that comsumerism at the expense of a couple million lives in the past 2 decades...phew, at least you have your priorities straight, man! enjoy a big mac while you kick back in your comfy chair and watch superman. i'm sure the rest of the world will understand it's what's needed
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • LOL funny post there although I'm pretty sure the U.S is not the only country in the world with drinkable tap water! ;)
    Oh btw Melbourne just got its first Krispy Kreme store and people are waiting up to 3 hours for donuts.....I'm going to have to drive down there one day soon and find out what all the fuss is about.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • America is far from perfect but it must be doing something right.....all those Mexicans trying to get across the border can't be wrong. How many Americans try to sneak into Canada? :p
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    LOL funny post there although I'm pretty sure the U.S is not the only country in the world with drinkable tap water! ;)
    Oh btw Melbourne just got its first Krispy Kreme store and people are waiting up to 3 hours for donuts.....I'm going to have to drive down there one day soon and find out what all the fuss is about.

    don't bother. krispy kreme donuts are shit.
    they have this substance in them that they try and palm off as cream. it's disgusting. as a fellow aussie i'm warning you now. don't do it. one of those double chocolate donuts from wendy's is better.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • El_Kabong wrote:
    that is exactly my point, to YOU they are labeled 'minor' to the ppl who had thousands upon thousands killed by US sponsored death squads it takes on a slightly larger role. and yes, there are other blemishes...my point was to show they happened in our lifetimes and are still happening.

    he's not saying what the other nations did is ok, he's saying it's not as dangerous, and it's not.

    you are comparing the actions of several countries and comparing them to one; the US. if you compare the actions on a single country basis it is 'benign'. as in the numbers don't come anywhere close to comparing. and at what point will it stop on our end?

    You only think that out of incomprehensible historical ignorance, The French for example, have been in a perpetual state of war with their neighboring countries for virtually the entire span of French history, and that isn't counting any of the astoundingly violent internal conflicts they've been through. In terms of atrocities commited by the French, the Germans, the Chinese, you're right, the numbers don't come anywhere close to comparing... in those countries favor. Are you going to call America an imperial power, and then dismiss all historical comparisons to other imperial powers, simply because their history didn't happen as recently? My point still stands, those countries are not morally superior simply because they're small, and a nation can be just as dangerous as any other regardless of it's size.
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • don't bother. krispy kreme donuts are shit.
    they have this substance in them that they try and palm off as cream. it's disgusting. as a fellow aussie i'm warning you now. don't do it. one of those double chocolate donuts from wendy's is better.

    When I was in Auckland I noticed they had one of those Wendy's restaurants there, not just the dodgy places we have here which just sell ice-crem and donuts. Oh but I'm so tempted to try Krispy Kreme, everyone keeps raving on about how good they are.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    You only think that out of incomprehensible historical ignorance, The French for example, have been in a virtually perpetual state of war with their neighboring countries for virtually the entire span of French history, and that isn't counting any of the astoundingly violent internal conflicts they've been through. In terms of atrocities commited by the French, the Germans, the Chinese, you're right, the numbers don't come anywhere close to comparing... in those countries favor. Are you going to call America an imperial power, and then dismiss all historical comparisons to other imperial powers, simply because their history didn't happen as recently? My point still stands, those countries are not morally superior simply because they're small, and a nation can be just as dangerous as any other regardless of it's size.


    again; the difference is you are comparing history to current events no one can change the past, obviously
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • While the U.S is the current world power I would argue that other countries have higher standards of living ie: Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Noway et al.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • El_Kabong wrote:
    united states of apathy

    i pledge allegiance to flag and all the corporations it stands for one nation under krispy kreme donuts and whatever corporations heavily invested this campaign cycle

    glad you can be proud of all that comsumerism at the expense of a couple million lives in the past 2 decades...phew, at least you have your priorities straight, man! enjoy a big mac while you kick back in your comfy chair and watch superman. i'm sure the rest of the world will understand it's what's needed

    You people are so fucking predictable! I guess Krispy Kreme is having people murdered in Africa right now, to keep grease and sugar prices low, yeah that's it. Why don't you just admit that you think the U.S. and "consumerism" are responsible for all the world's ills? That's the only possible explanation for "consumerism at the expense of a couple million lives." You make it sound as if I run my house of off starving children I throw into a giant Nazi-style incinerator. You sad people. You don't live in reality, and I'm growing weary of arguing against your tenebrous grasp of world events and history. You all need psychiatric help.
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • LOL funny post there although I'm pretty sure the U.S is not the only country in the world with drinkable tap water! ;)
    Oh btw Melbourne just got its first Krispy Kreme store and people are waiting up to 3 hours for donuts.....I'm going to have to drive down there one day soon and find out what all the fuss is about.

    Can you drink the tapwater in Australia? If you can, don't bet on doing it anywhere else, 'cept Canada and the U.S. It's just not worth the risk.
    Pronounced: (mo-KAY-lay em-BEM-bay)

    "So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."

  • abook and el-kabong do you guys reside in the u.s? if you hate your country so much you could easily move.....*shrugs*
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    When I was in Auckland I noticed they had one of those Wendy's restaurants there, not just the dodgy places we have here which just sell ice-crem and donuts. Oh but I'm so tempted to try Krispy Kreme, everyone keeps raving on about how good they are.

    actually ASL i meant donut king not wendy's. apologies for that momentary lapse of knowing-what-the-hell-i-was-talking-about.
    okay go ahead. but don't say you weren't warned. :) just promise me you'll stay away from the 'cream' filled ones.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Can you drink the tapwater in Australia? If you can, don't bet on doing it anywhere else, 'cept Canada and the U.S. It's just not worthy the risk.

    Well in Adelaide you shouldn't do it and Sydney's isn't that great but the drinking water here in Melbourne is just fine (supposed to be the best in the world but I haven't tested that theory). The drinking water in New Zealand is as good as that found anywhere in Australia. I bet you can drink the tap water in Norway or Sweden or Germany for instance.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
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