Prostitution

VG, I would like to add that I very much do hear what you are saying, and I agree with the validity of the degree women experience degrees of powerlessness in our society. I've personally experienced some degrees of that powerlessness, and to the point that I, at one time, seriously considered becoming an escort. And checked into it by calling agencies and even a lawyer. I've also mentioned in the past my childhood friend who currently runs an escort agency and another teenage friend who became a drug-addicted prostitute who was murdered by Canada's serial killer of prostitutes. There is a dark, dark underbelly here, where women come off as being very seriously victimized. I also fully understand your usage of adding quotes to the word "choice"...

Peace.

I don't think brothels, sex rings and such should be legalized, because it's exploitative. Someone said women choose to become prostitutes, but that's only because their other choices are even worse.

Even San Francisco overwhelmingly voted down legalizing prostitution. Sorry to sound moralistic, but let's have some common decency.

Byrnzie wrote:

But then some people would rather have sex with strangers for money than work a 10 hour day in a factory for a fraction of the money. It's their choice.

And I wouldn't blame them. I've worked in factories. I'd probably do the same thing. But let's get rid of all slavery. Let's get rid of the factories. Let's stop mass producing so much fucking junk. We should all be working much less, and enjoying ourselves a lot more.

Kenny Olav wrote:

Let's stop mass producing so much fucking junk. We should all be working much less, and enjoying ourselves a lot more.

I agree wholeheartedly!

Drowned Out wrote:

...from what I can tell, based on the history of Pickton in Vancouver...


...The problem here is that the street girls, the ones in the most danger, would never get a job in a parlour or for an agency, because normally they are the ones with dependency issues, psychological problems etc...

Like my friend Cindy who happened to be murdered by Picton.

RIP Cindy Beck.

I admit I haven't read this whole thread, but I didn't see male prostitution addressed. Prostitution doesn't just affect women. It will always exist imo, so I am conflicted in the best way to handle it. At least if it is legalized, there will be some regulation and therefore support for those involved. In a perfect world it wouldn't exist, but as we know, there is no such thing.

scb wrote:

What other viable options did they have? But should we just chalk it up to "she made her choice" and move on?

Just because people "choose" prostitution doesn't mean it's not a problem.

I don't know, depends on how you look at it. I see it as a choice. Yes, many are forced into it by circumstances but it's still a choice.

Regarding patriarchy, exploitation, and objectification of women... one thing I've noticed about this board is that whenever such subjects come up many of the men - particularly the ones who seem to pride themselves on being "enlightened" - become quite defensive. It's as if when someone observes that these things still exist, what the men hear is, "You, sir, are a misogynist pig!"

But please try to remember that this is not personal, it's not about you, no one is saying you have anything but the best intentions toward women. I don't believe anyone is even saying that any particular man, even the ones who buy sex, have an actual desire to objectify women.

I believe what is being said (or at least what I would like to say) is that the objectification of women still exists. It's still a problem. It's a social problem. And prostitution is one of its symptoms.

If you present prostitution as a problem caused by the patriarchal society and the objectification of women then I think you are seeing things in black and white. As much as you (or at least VictoryGin) might like to believe it, not all of the worlds problems are created by men. There's more to it.

Prostitution exists for many reasons. There are prostitutes who love their job. There are women who go into prostitution because of easy money although other options are available. Perhaps they need a lot more money than they can ever earn with any other job (within their options, usually low paid jobs), yes, even if they earned the same amount men make.

And there are many reasons why people visit prostitutes. It's not just because of the objectification of women. Again, to paint it that was is just painting it black and white.

So when someone suggest that once we get rid of the objectification of women prostitution will magically disappear there will be a lot of people responding. Don't blame the guys here for actually stating the obvious.

You'll also notice that all of these "enlightened" men :rolleyes: have acknowlegded objectification exists. They don't try to deny it in any way. VictoryGin didn't "observe" that it exists. She linked it to prostitution as if it's the sole cause.

"Oldest profession in the world. It will never be stamped out."

VG: "hey maybe it will be stamped out when our patriarchal culture stops objectifying women."

Yes, she also later claimed to be merely talking about the existence of objectification.

Hey, I'm just trying to get a feminist to admit her mistake. This hatred for the patriarchal society is clouding her vision.

It's a sad state of affairs when women feel that selling their bodies for sex is their best option to get ahead or make ends meet. We need to address the circumstances that cause them to feel the need to do this.

Yes, it's sad. But it's a reality. It also happens to be sad when men feel they need to sell their bodies, scb. Feminists :rolleyes: j/k.

But you are right, we need to address the circumstances and as I've pointed out before, and many other as well, the circumstances aren't all caused by the partiarchal society or the objectification of women. So that's why VictoryGin's misleading feminist rhetoric was addressed the way it was, not because us men hear "You, sir, are a misogynist pig!" We realise there's more to it. It's not black and white.

It's also a sad state of affairs when men feel that using women merely for their own gratification (sexual or otherwise) is an acceptable practice. We need to address why they feel the desire to do this and why they think it's okay.

Again, don't forget to mention women who use men. You sexist, you!
I disagree, by the way. It is acceptable and I think it's ok. But I can assure you not everyone who visits a prostitute feels it's acceptable or ok.

Why they have this "desire"? You're a smart girl, I'm sure you can think of tons of reasons why they have these "desire". A lot of these reasons are very hard to address.

wolfbear wrote:

I admit I haven't read this whole thread, but I didn't see male prostitution addressed. Prostitution doesn't just affect women. It will always exist imo, so I am conflicted in the best way to handle it. At least if it is legalized, there will be some regulation and therefore support for those involved. In a perfect world it wouldn't exist, but as we know, there is no such thing.

I mentioned it. I said that there are men out there who are desperate for money who turn to selling themselves for it, not because of an oppressive male society but because they have a body and people will pay for it. Simple as that.