Prostitution

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Comments

  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    But my point is that there are male heroin addicts out there who sell their ass to cover their habit, the sex is desensitised and has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality or gender identity, a straight man can have sex with a man for cash. No one has forced them. The same can be said for many prostitutes. Of course there are those who go down that road because of emotional issues etc, and also women who are forced to against their will but my point is that because sex can be traded as a commodity, it will NEVER be eradicated.

    Exactly, if one has nothing else and needs money desperately, for example to feed a habit, he/she can always sell his/her body. It is a last resort, it's not just seen as one. It simply is one. So is stealing and other forms of crime.
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  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    mammasan wrote:
    What about the woman who choose to go into prostitution of their own free will. Not every woman who sells her body does so because she is down on her luck. Many high end call girls do so because they can make a lot of money in relatively short amount of time.

    what about them? i don't think most women are physically forced into prostitution, unless they're being trafficked (which is an alarming issue, obvs). women "choose" to work in strip clubs, "choose" to blow someone on the parking lot, "choose" to work for an elite escort service that caters to wall street and washington DC---all of these "choices" are made in order to, on the lower end, pay rent or, on the higher end, pay for law school. the problem is that this is a field that is open to women. this is a field that pays women well. this is the field in which women excel. and that this is a field that exists to objectify and degrade women.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VictoryGin wrote:
    what about them? i don't think most women are physically forced into prostitution, unless they're being trafficked (which is an alarming issue, obvs). women "choose" to work in strip clubs, "choose" to blow someone on the parking lot, "choose" to work for an elite escort service that caters to wall street and washington DC---all of these "choices" are made in order to, on the lower end, pay rent or, on the higher end, pay for law school. the problem is that this is a field that is open to women. this is a field that pays women well. this is the field in which women excel. and that this is a field that exists to objectify and degrade women.

    I'm sorry but if you choose to sell your body for money because you want to make easy money then that is their choice to be objectified. They could get a job elsewhere, making less, and retain some dignity. Don't place the blame on society, these women are adults and their decisions are their own.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    mammasan wrote:
    I'm sorry but if you choose to sell your body for money because you want to make easy money then that is their choice to be objectified. They could get a job elsewhere, making less, and retain some dignity. Don't place the blame on society, these women are adults and their decisions are their own.

    yeah. they could get a job elsewhere where they face discrimination in the hiring process, unequal pay for equal work, and sexual harassment. but, hey, they'll have dignity.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VictoryGin wrote:
    yeah. they could get a job elsewhere where they face discrimination in the hiring process, unequal pay for equal work, and sexual harassment. but, hey, they'll have dignity.

    You make it sound as if women are treated like second class citizens and that is clearly not the case. Yes women are treated differently then men and there is a gap difference in pay, which is not acceptable, but the picture you paint is far from accurate.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    mammasan wrote:
    You make it sound as if women are treated like second class citizens and that is clearly not the case. Yes women are treated differently then men and there is a gap difference in pay, which is not acceptable, but the picture you paint is far from accurate.

    i would really enjoy a man telling me how what i said is clearly not the case.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VictoryGin wrote:
    i would really enjoy a man telling me how what i said is clearly not the case.

    Well enjoy it because a man just told you. Yes women are objectified, yes there is definitely a wage/salary gap between men and women and yes sexual harassment does exist but the picture you paint is one of women being treated as some lower that second class citizen and that is not the case. Women have made great strides in our society and there is still more to do but they are not oppressed by any means. Also just because I'm a man doesn't make me any less qualified to make a statement on the issue.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    I can't help but think that Victorygin is the only unenlightened person in this argument here, and I mean no offence by that :o you seem to be getting annoyed at us for simply stating the way it is. No one here is saying that women are equal and if they are prostitutes then they must love sex and want to get paid for it, we're not pigs. The fact is that many sex workers do it of their own free will and are exploiting themselves as much as anyone else is exploiting them. Regardless of laws, prostitution will always exist so long as people have control over their own body and there is a market for it.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • eyedclaar
    eyedclaar Posts: 6,980
    I should be able to enjoy my hookers AND heroin without being hassled by the man. Legalize it all!
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  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    VictoryGin wrote:
    the problem is that this is a field that is open to women. this is a field that pays women well. this is the field in which women excel. and that this is a field that exists to objectify and degrade women.
    Prostitution objectifies sex, not women.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    The fact is that many sex workers do it of their own free will and are exploiting themselves as much as anyone else is exploiting them. Regardless of laws, prostitution will always exist so long as people have control over their own body and their is a market for it.
    I agree.
    In our patriarchal society, women objectify themselves alongside men. We all contribute.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Objectification is a sweeping phenomenon in our scientism based patriarchal culture that doesn't support 'feminine' intelligences in males or females. The key to objectification is that a person is not treated like a being with depth, emotions, etc. but are rather treated like an object without feelings. Given this, mothers objectify their male children all the time. We ALL do it to each other...feminists have given the 'objectification' term the spotlight, and yet they use it regarding a small aspect of what it's actually about.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

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  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    angelica wrote:
    Objectification is a sweeping phenomenon in our scientism based patriarchal culture that doesn't support 'feminine' intelligences in males or females. The key to objectification is that a person is not treated like a being with depth, emotions, etc. but are rather treated like an object without feelings. Given this, mothers objectify their male children all the time. We ALL do it to each other...feminists have given the 'objectification' term the spotlight, and yet they use it regarding a small aspect of what it's actually about.
    mhmmm...people objectify prostitutes all the time, and usually the people who do this never talked to one or paid for one.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Saturnal wrote:
    mhmmm...people objectify prostitutes all the time, and usually the people who do this never talked to one or paid for one.
    true.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    angelica wrote:
    Objectification is a sweeping phenomenon in our scientism based patriarchal culture that doesn't support 'feminine' intelligences in males or females. The key to objectification is that a person is not treated like a being with depth, emotions, etc. but are rather treated like an object without feelings. Given this, mothers objectify their male children all the time. We ALL do it to each other...feminists have given the 'objectification' term the spotlight, and yet they use it regarding a small aspect of what it's actually about.

    that's not objectification, it's socialization. on average, boys in the US are socialized to not display certain emotions such as fear or sadness. it is however more "normal" to recognize anger, which is an emotion, in boys. this is getting off topic though.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I can't help but think that Victorygin is the only unenlightened person in this argument here, and I mean no offence by that :o you seem to be getting annoyed at us for simply stating the way it is. No one here is saying that women are equal and if they are prostitutes then they must love sex and want to get paid for it, we're not pigs. The fact is that many sex workers do it of their own free will and are exploiting themselves as much as anyone else is exploiting them. Regardless of laws, prostitution will always exist so long as people have control over their own body and there is a market for it.

    the problem is that you see it that way, and me and many others don't. and it's all fine and good to disagree, but i don't even think you understand what i've been saying or else you wouldn't have posted that. and this is why this is the end.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • unifiedscene
    unifiedscene Posts: 462
    VictoryGin wrote:
    what about them? i don't think most women are physically forced into prostitution, unless they're being trafficked (which is an alarming issue, obvs). women "choose" to work in strip clubs, "choose" to blow someone on the parking lot, "choose" to work for an elite escort service that caters to wall street and washington DC---all of these "choices" are made in order to, on the lower end, pay rent or, on the higher end, pay for law school. the problem is that this is a field that is open to women. this is a field that pays women well. this is the field in which women excel. and that this is a field that exists to objectify and degrade women.

    I'd say it's a field that exists because men are horny and sometimes it's easier to pay someone to get them off than go to a bar and spend the same amount on drinks only to have the girl walk away to hump some other guy that night.

    I take the same approach with prostitution as I do with drugs... regulation is better than prohibition.
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • unifiedscene
    unifiedscene Posts: 462
    VictoryGin wrote:
    that's not objectification, it's socialization. on average, boys in the US are socialized to not display certain emotions such as fear or sadness. it is however more "normal" to recognize anger, which is an emotion, in boys. this is getting off topic though.

    Good point. So why are YOU the oppressed ones? I'm the one who's being oppressed by not being allowed to feel fear or sadness!
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    unifiedscene wrote:
    I'd say it's a field that exists because men are horny and sometimes it's easier to pay someone to get them off than go to a bar and spend the same amount on drinks only to have the girl walk away to hump some other guy that night.

    I take the same approach with prostitution as I do with drugs... regulation is better than prohibition.

    women aren't horny?
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    VictoryGin wrote:
    the problem is that you see it that way, and me and many others don't. and it's all fine and good to disagree, but i don't even think you understand what i've been saying or else you wouldn't have posted that. and this is why this is the end.
    Likewise it would appear that you've not understood what I've been saying either so I guess we're both losing here.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"

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