Is this what Christians really think?

soulsinging wrote:

i dont mean to call him out, but i do have a question for our original KC poster... is his fiance a very devout evangelical? cos ive noticed that he used to be pretty even-keeled. ever since he got engaged his evangelical zeal seems to have increased tenfold and he's much more vocal about it. ive just noticed this a lot, people who are lukewarm, or even devout, about their religion suddenly become missionaries once they meet a gal who considers religion to be very important

For a hamshank, some men will do anything.

bootlegger10 wrote:

It's called faith. Let it go. I can't prove that God exists, or Satan exists. I accept it on faith. Call me an idiot or whatever. But this argument will go nowhere as "faith" is not something you can accept.

In your world, based in this fath thing that only the righteous can seem to be able to hold, who created Satan?

bootlegger10 wrote:

God created the Heavens and the Earth, including Lucifer. Lucifer had free will, and decided he wanted to be God. Your points go nowhere.

I would add: in other words when the physical universe was brought into being, the potential for choice between ideal choices that carry positive consequences came into being along with damaging choices that have negative consequences. Such choices provide the ladder of evolution.

Each person is entitled to their beliefs.

At the same time, it's hard to deny that our choices have consequences. they range from life affirming and healthy--consequences that further our purposes to choices that hold different consequences--consequences that take us backwards, or keep us stuck in our lives. The two polarities operate at all times for us humans. All we have to do is look around.

danmac wrote:

So if God created everything, why was this lucifer of his so faulty?

Does this make your God all powerful, still? Or does this make your God directly responsible for the suffering you percieve as being carried out by Satan?

Either way, it's your God's fault, don't ya think?

My God created a world with free will. So, he did create a world where evil exists. I don't understand quite why. But He didn't want a world of robots. Had we not made the choices we made, the universe would be a lot better place, paradise in fact. I'm not going to blame God for human mistakes.

Edit: Is this the first time you've heard of religion? You're arguing like you think you're going to win. I'm not going to prove to you that God exists, you're going to have to come to that conclusion on your own. You aren't going to prove to me that God does not exist by saying, "Where is Satan?"

danmac wrote:

Where is God?

Probably in the same place your love of Pearl Jam is. Can you prove such love? If you cannot, does that mean it is not real?

Rushlimbo wrote:

This was posted by someone on here that hail hails from the heartland (Kansas City). Is this really what most Christians think?

Radical Islam has driven away the truth of Jesus Christ and the Bible from these people, and instead replaced it with a satanically inspired fanaticism that has led these people in the wrong direction, both morally and spiritually. That's why they will never find peace, financial prosperity, or food or shelter that is adequate. Satan's ulitmate goal is the destruction of Israel, to prevent the coming of Christ, and he uses these radical Islamists through his guile and influence to do his bidding. And yes, I just said that…and I really believe it and mean it. All you have to do is look at the nations who believe in God and the Bible, and then compare them to the nations who follow these ideals of Islam, and then compare the two to see who God has allowed to prosper, and who he has allowed to suffer via their faith.

First of all, No, this isn't what all Christians believe. I am a Christian, and personally I believe this country became prosperous in a relatively short amount of time, initially, on a wicked foundation of slave labor. It maintains its general "prosperity" on a wicked economic system by which the wealthy exploit the poor. Neither is exactly a shining example of Christian teaching. Lets face it. The majority of people in this country are not really all that prosperous. It has very little to do with faith and very little to do with work ethic. ALOT of hardworking faithful are strugglin'. Much of the "prosperity" floating around in America is inherited prosperity. "Prosperity" is relative. The United States, as a nation, may appear prosperous when held up to other nations, but, come to the neighborhood where I grew up, talk to some folks about how prosperous America is, and see what kind of response you get. Personally, as a Christian, I believe that many in this country who have achieved the American version of what is prosperous, by American means, will find it "easier to ride a camel through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heaven".

As for calling out another poster from another thread to make a weak pot shot at Christians in general, I find it pathetic. Why don't you just say his name? It isn't like anyone who spends any time here doesn't know who the thread starter is referring to through with the not so veiled clues. Thats just plain weak. Besides knowing who the poster in question is, most of us here know that he is a good guy. Not evil or as someone put it "racist". He is entitled to his opinions and alot more respect than you afford him here. Grow up.

soulsinging wrote:

didnt i promise you a pm like a month ago?

yep. Still waiting.

danmac wrote:

I like the music played by a popular beat combo called Pearl Jam.

TO PROVE this, I can send you digital photos of the CD's on my shelf, and ticket stubs from concerts, and some t-shirts i used to wear. I can sing the songs alomost word for word, and i can answer useless trivia questions about the band. I can also take photos, and send, as proof of my likening of the bands music, of DVDs i have from various live concerts.

I can touch, hear and feel these concrete can't be disputed physical items.

By showing you these items, and my knowledge of the band and the art it produces, i therefore prove it to you.

Next?

Not to be picky, but, none of this proves you love pearl jam's music. It shows you have the cds on the shelf (maybe they're yours, maybe they're someone else's), Itshows you (or someone) has attended some concerts (maybe you were tagging along) Your jubilation at said concerts could be a thespian attempt to win the favor of someone you admire. I can sing word for word, songs I despise. they are almost as easy to remember as the ones I love. I personally do not question your love of the band. I'm sure its real. But none of the stuff you alluded to will ACTUALLY prove it. It is, basically, unproveable.

thankyougrandma wrote:

In the end, i'm ok with God or any Gods, Allah, Bouddha, Zeus... but i have some problem to accept how some humans use these gods to achieve their own humans activities and impose them to others (see govt., religion, radical, extremist, whatever). That's why religion are a problem more than a solution, they impose rules and assume they are the right thing and oppose those thing to a entity that is evil. I mean it's not that clear for everyone, if you don't have any food, and nobody is giving any food to you (islam have some law for that) then you need to steal food, religions condemn that and those who follow religion (of all kind) then discriminate and judge others according to their own will, which lead to separation, and i haven't even start about separation between religions themselves, which is a complete massive death threatening problem on this planet.

This is not a problem pertaining to religion but to morals. Take a look at countries where religion was basically outlawed. They still had people telling others how to live based on their morals.
If you're my neighbour, it's Saturday night and you're trying to get to sleep while I'm having a big party. Does it make you wrong to tell me or ask me to turn down the music so you can get some sleep? After all here it is Saturday night and you are trying to tell me how to live my life.

surferdude wrote:

This is not a problem pertaining to religion but to morals. Take a look at countries where religion was basically outlawed. They still had people telling others how to live based on their morals.

Like Russia you mean? It is a different problem and i agree it is a problem, yet many are victim of religious morals, you can't deny that.

surferdude wrote:

If you're my neighbour, it's Saturday night and you're trying to get to sleep while I'm having a big party. Does it make you wrong to tell me or ask me to turn down the music so you can get some sleep? After all here it is Saturday night and you are trying to tell me how to live my life.

If i'm your neighboor and you have a party, i hope i'll be invite to join, otherwise i'll start a neighboor war... hehe. Obviously there are laws that nobody will dispute, like late night noise, or driving under influence, or killing a man, those are humanity values, more than a religious one. It also doesn't mean that a quran law or value that is impose to people, is automaticly wrong, but when it is done "because" it's in the quran or the Bible, then that's where i see a problem...

edit: i said humanity values, should be more like national values of some sort, but not humanity, although some laws are the same everywhere on the planet, just not inforce the same way...