Was the Lebanese War Worth It?

2

Comments

  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Rue D'Awakening wrote:
    the war was just. unfortunately, the price israel has paid has not been worth the UN's cease-fire resolution. i predict olmert's government will fall before 2007.

    polaris- care to elaborate on how israel's response to the hezbollah attack was "war profiteering"? all i see is $2 billion in damages and an economic recession.

    war profiteering is about the arms trade ... its about selling guns and weapons and having the conditions set to enhance those sales ... an instable middle east and threats of terror are the foundation for profits ... a world in peace makes for poor gun sales ... and these people have a lot of influence in this world ...

    all those munitions, missles and damages will have to be replaced and guess who is gonna replace them ...
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    polaris wrote:
    all those munitions, missles and damages will have to be replaced and guess who is gonna replace them ...

    Iran?
    :)
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Iran?
    :)

    well ... i'm sure hezbollah is looking out for a warehouse or end of decade sale in iran soon enuf ... ;)

    but israel or should i say americans will be paying full price for their new stuff - gonna make those guys real happy ...
  • zcyrus
    zcyrus Posts: 22
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Iran?
    :)

    And the US for the other side. But no big deal, Israel is paying us with our foreign aid money.
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    I picked "ceasefire" in my office pool, so it was worth it to me.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Rue D'Awakening
    Rue D'Awakening Posts: 143
    i've got news for you, and this is probably going to give you a headache, but marxism can't explain for everything that happens in the arab-israeli conflict.
    Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism

    Most antizionists are antisemites
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Except that if this were true, Israel would not have signed onto the UN resolution for a ceasefire and instead would have continued its attempt to seize more land.

    Well UN resolutions are how you gain lands....that's how Israel got land in the first place. You attack, cease fire, have a negotiation, and the victor usually sees some sort of spoils.

    But I'll re-phrase. Israel's motive is to reshape the Middle East so they have more control over it. Even if the motive doesn't have to do with lands in this case, it certainly isn't driven by 2 hostages. So it's incorrect to say that.
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    polaris wrote:
    war profiteering is about the arms trade ... its about selling guns and weapons and having the conditions set to enhance those sales ... an instable middle east and threats of terror are the foundation for profits ... a world in peace makes for poor gun sales ... and these people have a lot of influence in this world ...

    all those munitions, missles and damages will have to be replaced and guess who is gonna replace them ...

    I sincerely hope you read post #11. Nobody wanted this war, especially Israel and their new leader. This was never about arms sales. If you want to talk about money and influence, read what Warren Buffet just did in Israel -that is real adult money...
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    Saturnal wrote:
    Well UN resolutions are how you gain lands....that's how Israel got land in the first place. You attack, cease fire, have a negotiation, and the victor usually sees some sort of spoils.

    But I'll re-phrase. Israel's motive is to reshape the Middle East so they have more control over it. Even if the motive doesn't have to do with lands in this case, it certainly isn't driven by 2 hostages. So it's incorrect to say that.

    I just don't get your line of thinking. If anybody in the Middle East is trying to manuver for power and influence, it is Iran. Any analyst, columnsit, politician, academic... pretty much across the entire political spectrum will tell you that.

    This was a proxy war fought on behalf of Iran through Hezbollah. Israel just wants to be left alone, so they can grow and prosper like they have always done.... read post #11.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    this war was not worth it... no war is worth anything.

    War is for kids and stupids...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • Rue D'Awakening
    Rue D'Awakening Posts: 143
    Saturnal wrote:
    Well UN resolutions are how you gain lands....that's how Israel got land in the first place. You attack, cease fire, have a negotiation, and the victor usually sees some sort of spoils.

    But I'll re-phrase. Israel's motive is to reshape the Middle East so they have more control over it. Even if the motive doesn't have to do with lands in this case, it certainly isn't driven by 2 hostages. So it's incorrect to say that.

    maybe Israel's strategy in the region is to mitigate the genocidal ambitions of some of its neighbors. you know, all those statements that people on MT either ignore, spin, or justify. maybe the situation on the ground that lasted for 6 years was unacceptable and hezbollah's most recent attack was the straw that broke the camel's back?
    Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism

    Most antizionists are antisemites
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    NCfan wrote:
    I sincerely hope you read post #11. Nobody wanted this war, especially Israel and their new leader. This was never about arms sales. If you want to talk about money and influence, read what Warren Buffet just did in Israel -that is real adult money...


    i read your post but at the end of the day - but i don't share his opinion ... if you read what i believe to be the motives for this war - you will see that i believe it to be a case of building a case against iran ... obviously, articles like that promote that agenda further ... secondly, if israel did not want this war - they would not have escalated it as much as they did ... as for buffett - just as you claim hezbollah to be a proxy arm for iran ... so is israel to the US ...
  • Rue D'Awakening
    Rue D'Awakening Posts: 143
    polaris wrote:
    secondly, if israel did not want this war - they would not have escalated it as much as they did ... .


    this statement shows you have no comprehension of israeli military doctrine. israel always has a policy of escalation in order to keep the initiative, to keep the fighting confined to enemy territory, and to exert political pressure. in no way does it mean israel "wants" war. this was a war of necessity. i don't even want to think about hezbollah being armed to the teeth like it was, when its master also has nuclear weapons. hezbollah had to be mitigated before that happens.
    the situation on the ground for the past 6 years was intolerable and the entire reason for this war, besides for the return of the kidnapped soldiers, was to fundamentally change the situation on the ground in southern lebanon. israel never "wants" war. we don't contort death into a sick form of victory. we don't consider not losing 12,000 men and 500 planes in 6 days a "historic, strategic victory".
    Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism

    Most antizionists are antisemites
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Rue D'Awakening wrote:
    maybe Israel's strategy in the region is to mitigate the genocidal ambitions of some of its neighbors. you know, all those statements that people on MT either ignore, spin, or justify. maybe the situation on the ground that lasted for 6 years was unacceptable and hezbollah's most recent attack was the straw that broke the camel's back?

    You don't mitigate someone's ambitions to kill you by attacking them.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Saturnal wrote:
    You don't mitigate someone's ambitions to kill you by attacking them.

    It strengthen's those ambitions...something many fail to see.....
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    It strengthen's those ambitions...something many fail to see.....

    So what is the alternative?

    Keeping in mind that I already agree with you on the issue of bombing civilians in Lebanon.
    :)
  • blueandwhite
    blueandwhite Posts: 662
    zcyrus wrote:
    And the US for the other side. But no big deal, Israel is paying us with our foreign aid money.

    Or more precisely, Israel is paying various arms manufacturers with your foreign aid money. Gotta love it :D !
  • shiraz
    shiraz Posts: 528
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Funny how many times in the last month I said that the Israeli offensive would be counter-productive on every level...comparable to the job the USA is doing in Iraq....both failures...should add-in the loss of support from the majority of western countries for Israel...not for the right of defending itself but being dis-proportionate in their attack....

    We had a support from the majority of western countries? Wanna tell me something new?

    http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/20122005/864777/RM17525493_wa.jpg

    Its not a fake, this is for real.



    The only thing we actually gained is the weapon-embargo. The other things are pro-Hizbullah: popular than ever, scary than ever ==> The Shi'ite Muslims are about to take over Lebanon's lead via Hizbullah. You see, they couldn't make it without attacking Israel, there was no way they would have gained such popularity. One can only hope these critical voices we began to hear today from Lebanon about the Hizbullah's latest actions will remind the Lebanese people who these men are really are - a group of terrorist who has nothing to do with Lebanon's interests. Nothing. I wonder if Hizbullah would kill their critics as they have promised to do so not too while ago...

    btw, did you know they already broke the cease-fire? they faired at IDF force when it was on his way out of Lebanon.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    shiraz wrote:
    We had a support from the majority of western countries? Wanna tell me something new?

    http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/20122005/864777/RM17525493_wa.jpg

    Its not a fake, this is for real.



    The only thing we actually gained is the weapon-embargo. The other things are pro-Hizbullah: popular than ever, scary than ever ==> The Shi'ite Muslims are about to take over Lebanon's lead via Hizbullah. You see, they couldn't make it without attacking Israel, there's no way they would gain such popularity. One can only hope these critical voices we began to here today from Lebanon about the Hizbullah's latest actions will remind the Lebanese people who these men are really are - a group of terrorist who has nothing to do with Lebanon's interests. Nothing. I wonder if Hizbullah would kill their critics as they have promised to so not too while ago...

    btw, did you know they already broke the cease-fire? they faired at IDF force when it was on his way out of Lebanon.


    They are scarier than ever because the escalted attacks by your country lead to this....no one is saying Israel does not have a right to defend iteself...but it seems agreed upon they did go overboard and therefore have created this escalation in support for Hezbollah....violence only creates violence....however I will disagree and say the majority think that Israel did go overboard...which is NOT the same as saying israel does not have a right to defend itself....
  • shiraz
    shiraz Posts: 528
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    They are scarier than ever because the escalted attacks by your country lead to this....no one is saying Israel does not have a right to defend iteself...but it seems agreed upon they did go overboard and therefore have created this escalation in support for Hezbollah....violence only creates violence....however I will disagree and say the majority think that Israel did go overboard...which is NOT the same as saying israel does not have a right to defend itself....

    This is what I was traying to say, they become scarier than ever because of their attack on Israel and us going to a war - this is what they wanted us to do, cause there was NO other way they could have gained such popularity.

    Darling, there isn't any support of Israel from the majority of western countries for a LONG time, regardless that war. everyone said we had the right to defend ourselfs this time simply because it WAS true - we had no other choice. The problem was the way we reacted.

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