Was the Lebanese War Worth It?

RockinInCanada

shiraz wrote:

This is what I was traying to say, they become scarier than ever because of their attack on Israel and us going to a war - this is what they wanted us to do, cause there was NO other way they could have gained such popularity.

Darling, there isn't any support of Israel from the majority of western countries for a LONG time, regardless that war. everyone said we had the right to defend ourselfs this time simply because it WAS true - we had no other choice. The problem was the way we reacted.

I agree...its just disturbing that Nasarallah has more support than ever....I ask you if given the choice how would you have dealt with the kidnapped soldiers....I know tough question but one that was recently faced with...

shiraz

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I agree...its just disturbing that Nasarallah has more support than ever....I ask you if given the choice how would you have dealt with the kidnapped soldiers....I know tough question but one that was recently faced with...

I would have done what Sharon (btw, his condition got worse) did in 2003 - "warning shots", then give them these 4 Lebanese prisoners (though all of them had a fair trail) in exchange to our soliders, and after that try to reach a peace agreement with Lebanon, and hoping this time their prime minister wouldn't be murdered out of it.

Anyway I do believe an attack was an accident waiting to happen. Hizbullah were knowen to gain a huge-worried amount of weapons, I think one should have wait till got enough precise wide-scale info and then attack them after their next provocation (they will always find an excuse for doing that), providing we yet don't have a peace agreement with Lebanon.

RockinInCanada

shiraz wrote:

I would have done what Sharon (btw, his condition got worse) did in 2003 - "warning shots", then give them these 4 Lebanese prisoners (though all of them had a fair trail) in exchange to our soliders, and after that try to reach a peace agreement with Lebanon, and hoping this time their prime minister wouldn't be murdered out of it.

Anyway I do believe an attack was an accident waiting to happen. Hizbullah were knowen to gain a huge-worried amount of weapons, I think one should have wait till got enough precise wide-scale info and then attack them after their next provocation (they will always find an excuse for doing that), providing we yet don't have a peace agreement with Lebanon.

That to me as you spoke in the first paragraph seems to be responsible measures...and I wish that was done....but I guess we learn from mistakes...just to bad when it takes 1000+ lives from both sides to realize that.....

Cosmo

zcyrus wrote:

Now that there is a cease fire in Lebanon, I think we should all look back at the results of the latest round of violence for both Israel and the world.

1. Hezbollah a group that had support of about one third of the people in Lebanon now has support of an overwhelming majority – about 80 – 90 %
2. About half of Hezbollah’s rockets were destroyed, still leaving them with roughly 600 – 800 rockets and still has the ability to get more.
3. Arab support for Hezbollah is at an all time high. People in Baghdad are hanging flags on their homes and joining in the streets in support.
4. Hezbollah is claiming victory allowing it to rally even more support.
5. Israel now is forced to negotiate with Hezbollah over an exchange of prisoners that were captured during the last few weeks of fighting.
6. Destabilized a pro-western government, forcing the Lebanese government to state that it respected Hezbullah.
7. The UN passes a resolution that by all accounts that I’ve seen will result in very little in the overall situation.
8. Hundreds of Israeli and Lebanese civilians dead.

It should be noted that the violence was in response to a two Israeli soldiers being kidnapped for no reason. However, I think if Israel had to do it all over again, seeing the results as shown above, they may have chosen a different path.

...
Lebanon was a much nicer place when it was known for it's Blonde Lebanese Hashish. They need to make more of that stuff... sit down with Israel and smoke it while listening to Pink Floyd's 'Wish You Were Here' on headphones.
...
Then, they can all go outside and shoot those rockets over the ocean and say, "Whoa.... dude...".

shiraz

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

That to me as you spoke in the first paragraph seems to be responsible measures...and I wish that was done....but I guess we learn from mistakes...just to bad when it takes 1000+ lives from both sides to realize that.....

And what about the second one? why do you think Hizbullah gained more weapons and built bunkers after we moved out? it is not a Lebanese official force, it has its funding sources in Iran & Syria. What would you think was about to happen? please, don't be naive. we already got a preview in 2003, 2006 was a check up, and in 2009 Hizbullah are gonna try attacking us again, this time they'll have even more weapons - regardless the embargo.

As long as they are around, Israel & Lebanon would never have a peace agreement, and as long as Israel & Lebanon don't have a peace agreement, Hizbullah will continue their actions against us & the Lebanese politicians / reporters standing in their way.

zcyrus

On a somewhat different topic, I think it is now important that the West (US, Israel, Europe, etc.) lead in the rebuilding of Lebanon. One of the reasons Hezbollah is popular is because they build hospitals and homes and roads. We cannot let them take credit for rebuilding what was destroyed. Its time for Americans and Israelis to spend the money to win the hearts and minds.

Obviously the biggest problem with this is potential Hezbollah attacks against the ones doing the rebuilding, but that will only hurt them in the long run. Its time to speak with generous actions in that region instead of harsh rhetoric.

RockinInCanada

zcyrus wrote:

On a somewhat different topic, I think it is now important that the West (US, Israel, Europe, etc.) lead in the rebuilding of Lebanon. One of the reasons Hezbollah is popular is because they build hospitals and homes and roads. We cannot let them take credit for rebuilding what was destroyed. Its time for Americans and Israelis to spend the money to win the hearts and minds.

Obviously the biggest problem with this is potential Hezbollah attacks against the ones doing the rebuilding, but that will only hurt them in the long run. Its time to speak with generous actions in that region instead of harsh rhetoric.

I like that idea....now to find some workers to do it...:)

Honestly that does sound like a great idea....

MrBrian

zcyrus wrote:

On a somewhat different topic, I think it is now important that the West (US, Israel, Europe, etc.) lead in the rebuilding of Lebanon. One of the reasons Hezbollah is popular is because they build hospitals and homes and roads. We cannot let them take credit for rebuilding what was destroyed. Its time for Americans and Israelis to spend the money to win the hearts and minds.

Obviously the biggest problem with this is potential Hezbollah attacks against the ones doing the rebuilding, but that will only hurt them in the long run. Its time to speak with generous actions in that region instead of harsh rhetoric.

so america and israel can take credit for it? I mean you can't rape an entire country then think giving them money is gonna make it all better.

If america want's to win the hearts and minds of people, they need to stop invading countries, supporting bad ones (Saudi arabia,israel) and not interfere in other peoples issues. That would be a start, anything less is nothing.

RockinInCanada

MrBrian wrote:

so america and israel can take credit for it? I mean you can't rape an entire country then think giving them money is gonna make it all better.

If america want's to win the hearts and minds of people, they need to stop invading countries, supporting bad ones (Saudi arabia,israel) and not interfere in other peoples issues. That would be a start, anything less is nothing.

However still a message.....even if the efforts went beyond the government....but alas more would need to be done....

Ahnimus

Need I say it? No it wasn't worth it.

As for the US goes, it should just retract it's tentacles from other parts of the world and allow peace to prosper it's self. Israel needs to get out of other people's land, get back Shebaa Farms and come up with a realistic plan for removing settlers from Palestine. Work out the refugee deal, total amnesty for both sides. Then everyone can make their happy littles lives where ever they want and they don't have to be friends. Just live.

Live simply, so that others may simply live. ~ Ghandi

When we start messing around in other people's business the issues don't get resolved. War doesn't bring about peace, tolerance does and peace just blooms out of that. Compromise. That's why it seems they want war for other reasons. Which means that dead people don't matter to them, for their greater goal, corporate or expansionist.

belfast1

yeah id say it wasnt worth it

who can say that any war is worth it?

theres too much hatred and not enough love in the world - all we need is a bit more love...

lgt

zcyrus wrote:

On a somewhat different topic, I think it is now important that the West (US, Israel, Europe, etc.) lead in the rebuilding of Lebanon. One of the reasons Hezbollah is popular is because they build hospitals and homes and roads. We cannot let them take credit for rebuilding what was destroyed. Its time for Americans and Israelis to spend the money to win the hearts and minds.

Obviously the biggest problem with this is potential Hezbollah attacks against the ones doing the rebuilding, but that will only hurt them in the long run. Its time to speak with generous actions in that region instead of harsh rhetoric.

I agree that the US - and Israel itself - should have put more financial resources in fostering democracy in Lebanon. Rather than using widespread bombing to get rid Southern Lebanon of Hiz'bullah. Wrong tactic. And no, I definitely do not think this war was worth it, but very counterproductive.

shiraz

lgt wrote:

I agree that the US - and Israel itself - should have put more financial resources in fostering democracy in Lebanon. Rather than using widespread bombing to get rid Southern Lebanon of Hiz'bullah. Wrong tactic. And no, I definitely do not think this war was worth it, but very counterproductive.

Israel don't care about democracy, only about leadership who have an interest to act for the sake of its civilians first, not for the sake of terrorists or other countries. Jordan is a monarchy, Egypt is a republic, Mauritania is an Islamic republic, and yet we have peace with all of these countries.