The Obama Presidency Could This Signal the Beginning of the End...

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Comments

  • heartdesire
    heartdesire Posts: 430
    jasonw wrote:
    As a white male, i think we are the absolute LEAST discriminated against population in the country.....stop your whining

    Thank you. I so agree.

    Saveuplife just likes to play devil's advocate. He loves to stir up the kettle!
    "i'm a dedicated insomniac" ~ ev nyc beacon 6/22
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    One example of a success story doesn't mean the problem is solved or it is the benchmark for the issue. It's equivelent to saying racism against minorities doesn't exist because (if) Obama can be the President.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    jeffbr wrote:
    You presume too much. The problem is that you can't ignore skin color apparently. My company has 7 employees. Here's how the demographics break down - 3 white, 3 african american, 1 asian. Guess what quota system we had in place while hiring? None.

    Actually, I will say what I actually feel - I feel that it is wrong to punish someone for the sins of their fathers. That's why I think christianity, with the whole notion of original sin is stupid. People should be judged on their own merits. Sorry if that is hard for you to hear.

    Yeah well I once worked for a man that said he'd never hire a black and he didn't and guess what quota system we had in place? None.
    He also wouldn't hire women either.

    What do you think of that? And before you suggest this is an exception rather than the rule.... think again.

    Afirmative action may have it's flaws but the ACLU still documents thousands of violations daily.
    the Minions
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,842
    ryan198 wrote:
    so are you proposing that we just throw up our hands, say "sorry guys/gals" to the undereducated urban working class that are largely there as a result of the oppressive regimes of our (fore)fathers, and say "we're all even now". Doesn't seem like we've solved much to me...the racism is now systemic, which is why the system needs to be altered...which is what AA tries (and isn't great at) to do.

    Only the oppresed have the right to call it even, so the former oppressor should do what he can to make the oppressed feel as even as possible.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,842
    FiveB247x wrote:
    One example of a success story doesn't mean the problem is solved or it is the benchmark for the issue. It's equivelent to saying racism against minorities doesn't exist because (if) Obama can be the President.

    I agree.....same as when Julia Roberts married Lyle Lovett.....it didn't mean that all hot actresses rushed-out to marry frizzy-haired quirky dudes!
  • saveuplife
    saveuplife Posts: 1,173
    chiefojibwa wrote:
    when you say "foreigners", do you mean minorities or actual non-us citizens?


    Good question. I don't remember the context off hand because I typed the question quickly. But, what I meant was actual non-U.S. citizens.... for my grad program. That said, there were many foreigners "who became U.S. citizens while in the program" and those who were simply U.S. citizens (minorities).
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    Yeah well I once worked for a man that said he'd never hire a black and he didn't and guess what quota system we had in place? None.
    He also wouldn't hire women either.

    What do you think of that? And before you suggest this is an exception rather than the rule.... think again.

    Afirmative action may have it's flaws but the ACLU still documents thousands of violations daily.

    What I think about that is that guy makes stupid fucking business decisions, and I hope his business fails. As a business owner, I always want to bring in someone I think would be able to best contribute to the success of my company. As soon as I start limiting my options, I limit my ability to succeed. But the problem with AA is that it can have the effect of limiting options.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 32,101
    thanks for sharing your wealth :) ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    ryan198 wrote:
    so are you proposing that we just throw up our hands, say "sorry guys/gals" to the undereducated urban working class that are largely there as a result of the oppressive regimes of our (fore)fathers, and say "we're all even now". Doesn't seem like we've solved much to me...the racism is now systemic, which is why the system needs to be altered...which is what AA tries (and isn't great at) to do.

    The problem is that AA doesn't do that, really (even by your own admission). I don't claim "we're all even now", but the problems that need to be addressed are issues you've covered which occur before AA should even be a factor. Spend more time working on inner-city education and training. Don't excuse the lack of education and/or training, and simply accept someone to an institution where you've just set them up for failure.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • saveuplife
    saveuplife Posts: 1,173
    FiveB247x wrote:
    One example of a success story doesn't mean the problem is solved or it is the benchmark for the issue. It's equivelent to saying racism against minorities doesn't exist because (if) Obama can be the President.


    I know that and I'm not attempting to imply that the problem of racism is solved by any means or stretch of the imagination. The truth is, and I think you'd agree, racism... will always remain a problem. ALWAYS..... ON BOTH SIDES.

    My point is in regards to Affirmative Action. I think, it's fair to label this as reverse racism. Don't take offense to the terminology I used... not meant to be offensive. My point in calling it reverse racism is simply that racism is existing still.... but on the opposite side of the coin from the minority. But, with Affirmative Action we are still judging others by skin color.

    The question I posed had to do with whether an achievement like this would settle some fears within the African American community. Basically, they have seen an African American, who was not wealthy, move up the ladder.... all the way to the top.

    A number of people in this thread claimed Obama did not receive assistance from Affirmative Action. I honestly don't know whether he did or did not. But, for arguments sake, let's say he did not receive assistance. Then his accomplishment shows that an African American can do all of what he did without any assistance from the goverment. So, if that "is true", could you see the issue of Affrimative Action... at the very least.... being slightly LESS necessary? And if it's less necessary than it was in the past.... when will it be NOT be necessary at all?
  • nothinghead
    nothinghead Posts: 270
    jeffbr wrote:
    The problem is that AA doesn't do that, really (even by your own admission). I don't claim "we're all even now", but the problems that need to be addressed are issues you've covered which occur before AA should even be a factor. Spend more time working on inner-city education and training. Don't excuse the lack of education and/or training, and simply accept someone to an institution where you've just set them up for failure.

    I was going to weigh in on this issue, but it seems like jeffbr beat me to just about every point in this thread I was going to make.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I understand your point and wasn't taking offense to it. One of the ideas our nation was founded upon or atleast in some sense based is the notion that the majority has to look out for the welfare of the minority. Whether economically, politically or socially... that's all this is, and in that respect it will never end. People like to use these catch phrases or have ridiculous ideas like some in the lower end of the spectrum (economically, culturally or socially) are sitting around living the high-life on the sweat of the majority and it's nothing more than a pipe dream (or class warfare). If anything, the rich of our society have helped push forth or inherited a situation in which they feed on the weak for their own benefit. So as we see this in society in action, the middle ground is shrinking, the lower are growing and upper is pulling further away - in practice, a pyramid. So as a whole, we will never see the end of such things because there will never be an end to inequality as a result of racism, injustice and intolerance in which a specific group or class is left behind for the best interest of some other group (many of which are directs results of our systematic setup in society).
    saveuplife wrote:
    I know that and I'm not attempting to imply that the problem of racism is solved by any means or stretch of the imagination. The truth is, and I think you'd agree, racism... will always remain a problem. ALWAYS..... ON BOTH SIDES.

    My point is in regards to Affirmative Action. I think, it's fair to label this as reverse racism. Don't take offense to the terminology I used... not meant to be offensive. My point in calling it reverse racism is simply that racism is existing still.... but on the opposite side of the coin from the minority. But, with Affirmative Action we are still judging others by skin color.

    The question I posed had to do with whether an achievement like this would settle some fears within the African American community. Basically, they have seen an African American, who was not wealthy, move up the ladder.... all the way to the top.

    A number of people in this thread claimed Obama did not receive assistance from Affirmative Action. I honestly don't know whether he did or did not. But, for arguments sake, let's say he did not receive assistance. Then his accomplishment shows that an African American can do all of what he did without any assistance from the goverment. So, if that "is true", could you see the issue of Affrimative Action... at the very least.... being slightly LESS necessary? And if it's less necessary than it was in the past.... when will it be NOT be necessary at all?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • acoustic guy
    acoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    Collin wrote:
    I'm against affirmative action. That's all I have to say. I don't think Obama's succes will change the policies on affirmative action significantly.
    its gonna make it worse.
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    One can only hope that we stop basing decisions on the color of someone's skin and instead base it on the content of their character.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • acoustic guy
    acoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    cincybearcat wrote:
    One can only hope that we stop basing decisions on the color of someone's skin and instead base it on the content of their character.
    Many here think I did not vote for Obama because he is black...WRONG.
    Color has NOTHING to do with it for me.
    BUT, I do have a problem with all of the new minority voters who voted for the first time JUST BEACUSE Obama is black.

    Someone please tell me that I am wrong?
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Many here think I did not vote for Obama because he is black...WRONG.
    Color has NOTHING to do with it for me.
    BUT, I do have a problem with all of the new minority voters who voted for the first time JUST BEACUSE Obama is black.

    Someone please tell me that I am wrong?
    You have a problem with the African-American community finally, for the first time ever, feeling connected with one of the candidates? Too bad, really.

    And, black people, along with droves and droves of many other American races are coming out to vote for him. I do believe that he is the right man for the job who happens to be black. Unlike the republican VP who was solely chosen for her gender.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Many here think I did not vote for Obama because he is black...WRONG.
    Color has NOTHING to do with it for me.
    BUT, I do have a problem with all of the new minority voters who voted for the first time JUST BEACUSE Obama is black.

    Someone please tell me that I am wrong?
    Color has everything to do with it for you. You are so transparent.
    You know, madness is a lot like gravity… sometimes all you need is a little push...
  • acoustic guy
    acoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    Color has everything to do with it for you. You are so transparent.
    You know, madness is a lot like gravity… sometimes all you need is a little push...
    hahahahahhahahahahaha please woman.
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    acoustic guy wrote:
    hahahahahhahahahahaha please woman.
    Well i was gonna say 'let's put a smile on that face'', but you crack yourself up easily enough as it is..
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,842
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Many here think I did not vote for Obama because he is black...WRONG.
    Color has NOTHING to do with it for me.
    BUT, I do have a problem with all of the new minority voters who voted for the first time JUST BEACUSE Obama is black.

    Someone please tell me that I am wrong?

    Perhaps the minority voters have developed a sense of hope and empowerment.

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