The Obama Presidency Could This Signal the Beginning of the End...

saveuplife
saveuplife Posts: 1,173
edited November 2008 in A Moving Train
...for Affirmative Action?

This man, impressively worked his way through the system. A system, typically, dominated by the wealthy. Yet, he made it to the top of it all.

IMHO, at the very least, we should start really looking at this issue once again. Why? Well, because many white males are descriminated against.

I'll provide an example. I went to grad school. As a white male, I was in the heavy minority of the entrants into my program. The program I was in is typically dominated by foreigners. At any rate, the school also wants a higher percentage of minorities and females in the program. I luckily got in. But, I know for certain, a number of white males who were "more qualified scholastically in relative terms" did not... because the business school favored taking females and minorities to increase their percentages. So, I make it out of grad school and I realize that once again (as a white male), I'm going to have to compete heavily against "not as qualified" minorities and women in the workforce. Once again, I'm going to be unfairly overlooked in order for certain firms to boost their relative numbers of women and minorities. That's not once,... it's twice.

STOP.... Don't for one second say I'm being predjudice because I'm saying people should be treated equally. I understand that this program (affirmative action) may have been needed for a while in order for minorities to have a fair chance. I also understand my field may be somewhat different from the norm. But, are we finally breaking through...

Now, for the question... given the fact that we now have an African American President.... could this signal the beginning of the end? If not, what will?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    I'm against affirmative action. That's all I have to say. I don't think Obama's succes will change the policies on affirmative action significantly.
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  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    Well, if the goal of affirmative action was to get a non-white president into office, then I see your point. But I don't think that was the end-all point. Also, I don't think Obama would agree with the implication that he is the product of affirmative action. That would suggest he was the recipient of benefits due to his race. From what I understand, he was an academic stud throughout his higher education, unlike, for example, McCain.

    I know that you are asking a broader question, but I just don't think this would signal some sort of "all clear."
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  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    not for nothing, but if this election did one thing, it uncovered that racism is indeed still alive and kicking in the good ol' U.S.A.

    Obama hasn't even won yet ... it's not a lock ... let's see what happens if he wins and how things go for a few years before we can call an end to anything.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

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  • beachdweller
    beachdweller Posts: 1,532
    saveuplife wrote:
    ...for Affirmative Action?

    This man, impressively worked his way through the system. A system, typically, dominated by the wealthy. Yet, he made it to the top of it all.

    IMHO, at the very least, we should start really looking at this issue once again. Why? Well, because many white males are descriminated against.

    I'll provide an example. I went to grad school. As a white male, I was in the heavy minority of the entrants into my program. The program I was in is typically dominated by foreigners. At any rate, the school also wants a higher percentage of minorities and females in the program. I luckily got in. But, I know for certain, a number of white males who were "more qualified scholastically in relative terms" did not... because the business school favored taking females and minorities to increase their percentages. So, I make it out of grad school and I realize that once again (as a white male), I'm going to have to compete heavily against "not as qualified" minorities and women in the workforce. Once again, I'm going to be unfairly overlooked in order for certain firms to boost their relative numbers of women and minorities. That's not once,... it's twice.

    STOP.... Don't for one second say I'm being predjudice because I'm saying people should be treated equally. I understand that this program (affirmative action) may have been needed for a while in order for minorities to have a fair chance. I also understand my field may be somewhat different from the norm. But, are we finally breaking through...

    Now, for the question... given the fact that we now have an African American President.... could this signal the beginning of the end? If not, what will?

    I'm sure this won't go over well, but I subscribe to the Obama and Bill Cosby philosophy about minorities that are lazy and unwilling to work hard to succeed, that they need to quit making excuses and get off their asses.. Of course, from my perspective, anyone that this fits to, needs to get off their asses, and take responsibility for their own success and/or failure.

    I think we are close to a time where affirmative action can go away, but I don't think it should be pushed aside without taking a serious look at the reasons it's in place. I'd like to see a push by leaders for parents to be parents. Take responsbility for participating in the education of their children. This will have more effect than affirmative action can in the long run at this point.
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

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  • Surf Rider
    Surf Rider Posts: 813
    edited March 2009
    ................
    Post edited by Surf Rider on
  • jasonw
    jasonw Posts: 435
    As a white male, i think we are the absolute LEAST discriminated against population in the country.....stop your whining
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,842
    saveuplife wrote:
    ...for Affirmative Action?

    This man, impressively worked his way through the system. A system, typically, dominated by the wealthy. Yet, he made it to the top of it all.

    IMHO, at the very least, we should start really looking at this issue once again. Why? Well, because many white males are descriminated against.

    I'll provide an example. I went to grad school. As a white male, I was in the heavy minority of the entrants into my program. The program I was in is typically dominated by foreigners. At any rate, the school also wants a higher percentage of minorities and females in the program. I luckily got in. But, I know for certain, a number of white males who were "more qualified scholastically in relative terms" did not... because the business school favored taking females and minorities to increase their percentages. So, I make it out of grad school and I realize that once again (as a white male), I'm going to have to compete heavily against "not as qualified" minorities and women in the workforce. Once again, I'm going to be unfairly overlooked in order for certain firms to boost their relative numbers of women and minorities. That's not once,... it's twice.

    STOP.... Don't for one second say I'm being predjudice because I'm saying people should be treated equally. I understand that this program (affirmative action) may have been needed for a while in order for minorities to have a fair chance. I also understand my field may be somewhat different from the norm. But, are we finally breaking through...

    Now, for the question... given the fact that we now have an African American President.... could this signal the beginning of the end? If not, what will?

    Think of how many qualified applicants were unfairly overlooked 50 years ago simply because they were a minority. Think of how many white males were given the unfair advantage.

    Any white male who is placed at a disadvantage these days is paying the price for wrongs committed by other white males several generations ago.
  • Mrs.Vedder78
    Mrs.Vedder78 Posts: 4,585
    I'm sure many will not like what I have to say BUT I think affirmative action is the path minorites take to not work to the full extent to their abilities.

    If there are 100 applicants for a 50 positions at work, school whatever is that you are going for it should go to the most qualified ones it should be decided based on that not on a percentage the school or workplace needs to fill up.

    And if this 100% white or black or hispanic that deserved it then it is what it is, if its 50-50 the same.

    It's totally unfair to be more prepared and be passed on for a person that's less prepared than you just because of the color of their skin.
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    Think of how many qualified applicants were unfairly overlooked 50 years ago simply because they were a minority. Think of how many white males were given the unfair advantage.

    Any white male who is placed at a disadvantage these days is paying the price for wrongs committed by other white males several generations ago.

    Is that OK? Should that be enforced by law?

    I agree with your first paragraph. But I don't think you fix discrimination with more discrimination.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,842
    jeffbr wrote:
    Is that OK? Should that be enforced by law?

    I agree with your first paragraph. But I don't think you fix discrimination with more discrimination.

    How would you propose to fix it?
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    This is one of the most ridiculous posts of all time. As a white man I had to overcome blah, blah, blah. Talk about wanting to be the victim. Anyway evidence shows that middle class white women get the most out of Afirmative Action. Why don't you do some actual research on this before you put up such a moronic post. Boy for such a smart guy...
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    The end of affirmative action? I agree the law is flawed. But what does a President Obama have to do with that? He isn't being elected because of affirmative action and he isn't being elected because he is black.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    How would you propose to fix it?

    If no discrimination occurs, the problem fixes itself. The best candidate will always be the one who gets hired.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    thou dost protest too much methinks

    Affirmative action goes further than skin color.
    Why don't you just say what you actually feel?
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  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    thou dost protest too much methinks

    Affirmative action goes further than skin color.
    Why don't you just say what you actually feel?

    You presume too much. The problem is that you can't ignore skin color apparently. My company has 7 employees. Here's how the demographics break down - 3 white, 3 african american, 1 asian. Guess what quota system we had in place while hiring? None.

    Actually, I will say what I actually feel - I feel that it is wrong to punish someone for the sins of their fathers. That's why I think christianity, with the whole notion of original sin is stupid. People should be judged on their own merits. Sorry if that is hard for you to hear.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    jeffbr wrote:
    If no discrimination occurs, the problem fixes itself. The best candidate will always be the one who gets hired.
    how does one determine who the best candidate is? i mean should more weight be placed on say an individual's schooling and test scores or the fact that maybe they overcame long odds of even getting out of the inner city to a state school? the problem is that discrimination has manifest itself in a variety of ways, and that NO discrimination, while a lofty goal, is very difficult to achieve.
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    jeffbr wrote:
    You presume too much. The problem is that you can't ignore skin color apparently. My company has 7 employees. Here's how the demographics break down - 3 white, 3 african american, 1 asian. Guess what quota system we had in place while hiring? None.

    Actually, I will say what I actually feel - I feel that it is wrong to punish someone for the sins of their fathers. That's why I think christianity, with the whole notion of original sin is stupid. People should be judged on their own merits. Sorry if that is hard for you to hear.
    yeah but the sins of our fathers have punished and continue to punish people today. just because you don't want it to be true doesn't make it so. (edit) wasn't it marx who wrote something like the effect of the dead will weigh like an alp on the minds of the people today?
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    ryan198 wrote:
    yeah but the sins of our fathers have punished and continue to punish people today. just because you don't want it to be true doesn't make it so. (edit) wasn't it marx who wrote something like the effect of the dead will weigh like an alp on the minds of the people today?

    So your solution then is to perpetuate inequality, but as a means to acheive your end (however noble it may seem). Doesn't sound any better than what our "fathers" were doing to acheive their end.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    jasonw wrote:
    As a white male, i think we are the absolute LEAST discriminated against population in the country.....stop your whining
    I know, it's hilarious, a white male, priviledged enough to be sitting in front of his computer talking about all the racial oppression he has suffered because he's white.

    Life is HARD :rolleyes:

    Affirmative action can be harmful but god almighty, posts of this kind seem so ridiculous in context.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    jeffbr wrote:
    So your solution then is to perpetuate inequality, but as a means to acheive your end (however noble it may seem). Doesn't sound any better than what our "fathers" were doing to acheive their end.
    so are you proposing that we just throw up our hands, say "sorry guys/gals" to the undereducated urban working class that are largely there as a result of the oppressive regimes of our (fore)fathers, and say "we're all even now". Doesn't seem like we've solved much to me...the racism is now systemic, which is why the system needs to be altered...which is what AA tries (and isn't great at) to do.

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