Was Housewife Too Quick To Pull Trigger?

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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    gue_barium wrote:
    "...sold it right after they shot John Lennon..."

    That's got to be one of the most contrived pieces of political BS I've ever seen on this board.
    ...
    Whatever, bud. It was also a Charter Arms .38 that killed Lennon... except mine had a 6 inch cop barrel. And I didn't sell it the following day. I ended up unloading the thing about 3 months later, after owning it for about 2 years. I had thought about all of the things I had heard and learned about, if you are going to pull a gun on someone, you'd better be willing and able to pull the trigger. I seriously thought about the consequences of that would be and felt it wasn't worth it.
    Before that, I used to go shooting at the Long Beach Police Academy (that used to give free gun safety and shooting classes) and always considered the targets as just targets. I wasn't until Lennon was shot that I saw the black outlines as a person.
    The only reason I got the thing was because that was when car jacking was first coming into play. I later figured that it's only a car and cars are insured. If someone wants my car that badly... to pull a fucking gun on me... they can have it.
    Am I afraid of guns today? No. We still go shooting from time to time, but I don't own one. I don't want one.
    I don't know what else I can tell you... I'm just telling you what I had and what I did.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    But...
    who was in the house during the theft?
    Anyone?
    Your kid's best friend?
    How was this guy to know?
    There is no way in hell this guy was in the wrong. He gave fair warning to the thieves.

    yes who was in the house during the theft? anyone? no one?


    so i'll just shoot burglars dead just in case they've tied the family up in the rec room and raped the daughters, before making off with the family's silverware? come on gue youre busting my balls about this and i dont even have balls to bust. you're bringing supposition into the argument. :)
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Let me add...
    I also thought about a kid I knew in High School. His Dad shot himself in the head and I remembered Steve talking about the cops being in his house and him having to clean up the mess. He talked about picking up pieces of bone and hair with pieces of flesh still attached and pieces of brains and all that blood. I wanted no part of any of that.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    gue_barium wrote:
    I was only responding that way for the fact you were babysitting GunderP and his sudden absence of response to the subject of the thread.

    nah not babysitting. Lightening up like he asked. :)

    The way I figure it we get nowhere going at each other. I'm more of a discussion girl and humor never hurts. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    catefrances wrote:
    yes who was in the house during the theft? anyone? no one?


    so i'll just shoot burglars dead just in case they've tied the family up in the rec room and raped the daughters, before making off with the family's silverware? come on gue youre busting my balls about this and i dont even have balls to bust. you're bringing supposition into the argument. :)

    I'm putting myself in the shoes of the guy that did everything he could to avoid doing what he did.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Jeanie wrote:
    nah not babysitting. Lightening up like he asked. :)

    The way I figure it we get nowhere going at each other. I'm more of a discussion girl and humor never hurts. :)

    I got uberserious for a moment, for arguments sake. I just hate petty politcal-minded bickering.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Cosmo wrote:
    Let me add...
    I also thought about a kid I knew in High School. His Dad shot himself in the head and I remembered Steve talking about the cops being in his house and him having to clean up the mess. He talked about picking up pieces of bone and hair with pieces of flesh still attached and pieces of brains and all that blood. I wanted no part of any of that.

    It's awful that family and friends are left with that kind of clean up. Something similar happened to friends of mine whose son, my friend, was killed when another of my friends accidently ran over his head while they were working on the car in the garage.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    gue_barium wrote:
    I got uberserious for a moment, for arguments sake. I just hate petty politcal-minded bickering.

    meh! It's not my favorite but I go there sometimes. Can't help meself. What can I say? I'm not perfect! Who'd have guessed? :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Pearler
    Pearler Posts: 191
    Jeanie wrote:
    I'm more of a discussion girl and humor never hurts. :)

    I thought you simply loved a chinwag and were just hell bent on getting into the top 5 highest post makers or something.




    carry on.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Pearler wrote:
    I thought you simply loved a chinwag and were just hell bent on getting into the top 5 highest post makers or something.




    carry on.

    It's not my fault they record everything I say! :p;)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    I'm not sure that I see what it has to do with being American. I loathe guns generally except for some circumstances and I certainly can't own one here, BUT I have lived in neighbourhoods and even with flat mates where I wish I'd had one. Not because I WANT to shoot anyone but man I'm sick and tired of being the one that gets shat on and being in fear for my life and health. And I can move, I can lock my doors, I can change my clothes and appearance, I can hide out but WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I? I'm not the one breaking in to someone elses house wishing to do them harm for whatever reason. Or trying to inflict my violent bullshit on someone else.
    Fact is not EVERYWHERE is little pink houses with picket fences and Carol Brady living next door. Some places you do need to be prepared to protect yourself. She's probably devestated it came down to that but for her sake I'm glad she had the forethought and sensed the danger and was prepared. It saved her life.

    you made one point here. someone breaking into someones house is prepared to do bodily harm. when you enter someone elses home; there's a good chance someone is home. and chances are they'd have to deal with them. if you look at stats; the homeowner is usually killed. why leave witnesses?
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    you made one point here. someone breaking into someones house is prepared to do bodily harm. when you enter someone elses home; there's a good chance someone is home. and chances are they'd have to deal with them. if you look at stats; the homeowner is usually killed. why leave witnesses?

    Well I'm not so sure that burglars are even thinking that far ahead. Some sure, but I'll bet on more than a few occassions they've broken in, been surprised to find someone home and reacted violently out of fear of being caught. BUT that's not gonna do much if you're the poor sod that had the temerity to be in your own home on the wrong night. Thing is as far as I can see in that circumstance everyone is working on heightened response. So burglar freaks out you're home, home owner freaks out coz there's someone in the house. Recipe for disaster really.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm putting myself in the shoes of the guy that did everything he could to avoid doing what he did.

    he did everything he could but do what he was told to do.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    onelongsong wrote:
    you made one point here. someone breaking into someones house is prepared to do bodily harm. when you enter someone elses home; there's a good chance someone is home. and chances are they'd have to deal with them. if you look at stats; the homeowner is usually killed. why leave witnesses?

    i disagree. in my experience ive found that burglaries are committed by someone who has knowledge of the intended victims schedules, in order to avoid a confrontation and make their endeavour all that much easier. maybe things are different in the united states, i dont know. maybe in the US, all burglars are busting for the chance to cause grievous harm to someone. again i don't know.
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  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    catefrances wrote:
    i disagree. in my experience ive found that burglaries are committed by someone who has knowledge of the intended victims schedules, in order to avoid a confrontation and make their endeavour all that much easier. maybe things are different in the united states, i dont know. maybe in the US, all burglars are busting for the chance to cause grievous harm to someone. again i don't know.

    I agree, most burglaries I've heard of here happen when the victims are away on vacation, out to work etc.
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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    I don't think it is a bad thing gue. I'm not particularly happy with the outcome of the Horn case but as he acted within the law as it pertained to him as far as I can see, sure I wish that he'd not killed the burglars BUT I wasn't there, I don't know him, I don't know what he did or didn't do, I only know the outcome. And having rung 000 (our 911 here) myself and been TOLD to GO and sort out something that was happening in my neighbourhood :eek: , or had to ring them repeatedly for help only to have them rock up HOURS later and do nothing anyway, one has to wonder at what people think 911 (or 000) is gonna do anyway? I think OLS has had a valid point that they only turn up AFTER and mop up in a lot of cases. I don't want what they're "mopping up" to be me or mine OR my neighbours. I'm not patrolling my neighbourhood LOOKING for trouble but if I see something happening to my neighbours or someone in the street and it doesn't look right, and someone may die or be seriously injured or have property stolen I'm sure as hell not going to help the perpertrator by calling emergency services and waiting for them to turn up. I don't have access to a gun though, so whatever action I take I have to be prepared that I will ALSO quite possibly suffer injury.

    i've found that people that don't know their neighbours can't get along with other people. your neighbours are the first people you want to know. when i was still in knickers; me grand slipped on the stairs and broke her ankle in 3 places. i ran to the neighbours who called an ambulance (we didn't have 911 back then) and they helped us; then watched over me when they took me grand away. if me gramps had a heart attack; i'd run to the neighbours for help.
    THESE ARE PEOPLE YOU LIVE NEXT TO. why the hell wouldn't you want to get to know them?

    yes; i have loaded guns in my nightstand. a .44 and a .38. i can hit matchsticks at 7 yards with either. when i start reading stories where the burglers or attackers allow the victims to get their guns from the safe; then load them to protect themselves; they'll go back in the safe with the others.

    this thread had nothing to do with the horn case. the circumstances were altogether different. why people chose to bring horn into this conversation i just don't know. i was looking for the people who absolutely hate guns to get their reaction. every 34 minutes; someone uses a handgun to save their lives in the us. we're told that's a bad thing. well; by people who don't believe an innocent persons life is worth protecting.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    catefrances wrote:
    i disagree. in my experience ive found that burglaries are committed by someone who has knowledge of the intended victims schedules, in order to avoid a confrontation and make their endeavour all that much easier. maybe things are different in the united states, i dont know. maybe in the US, all burglars are busting for the chance to cause grievous harm to someone. again i don't know.

    i can search thousands of cases where someone was home when their house was invaded; but that's not my point.
    my point was; THAT IF YOU'RE WILLING TO ENTER SOMEONES HOME; YOU MUST BE PREPARED IN THE EVENT SOMEONE IS HOME.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    i've found that people that don't know their neighbours can't get along with other people. your neighbours are the first people you want to know. when i was still in knickers; me grand slipped on the stairs and broke her ankle in 3 places. i ran to the neighbours who called an ambulance (we didn't have 911 back then) and they helped us; then watched over me when they took me grand away. if me gramps had a heart attack; i'd run to the neighbours for help.
    THESE ARE PEOPLE YOU LIVE NEXT TO. why the hell wouldn't you want to get to know them?

    yes; i have loaded guns in my nightstand. a .44 and a .38. i can hit matchsticks at 7 yards with either. when i start reading stories where the burglers or attackers allow the victims to get their guns from the safe; then load them to protect themselves; they'll go back in the safe with the others.

    this thread had nothing to do with the horn case. the circumstances were altogether different. why people chose to bring horn into this conversation i just don't know. i was looking for the people who absolutely hate guns to get their reaction. every 34 minutes; someone uses a handgun to save their lives in the us. we're told that's a bad thing. well; by people who don't believe an innocent persons life is worth protecting.

    Well I've got some great neighbours and I've got some very scary neighbours indeed. I wouldn't wish harm on any of them and I'd help out any of them if they needed it and have done. BUT when the police decided that I should go talk to my neighbour about the noise, quite frankly I thought they must be completely out of their minds. There was no way I was going up there in my pyjamas, at 3am, to tell the guy and his mates, who have a history of drug and alcohol abuse, petty crime and violence that they needed to turn the music down and I told the copper that. It's not like they were unaware of the problems the whole neighbourhood had had with that neighbour. I don't dislike the guy BUT there are times to speak to your neighbours and go to your neighbours for help and there are neighbours that will take advantage of you at every turn. So I guess you have to weigh it up based on what you know. Even if I'd had a gun I'd have not gone to that guys house in those circumstances. As far as I'm concerned that's what we're paying taxes for. For the police to come and sort it out.
    I don't think guns are necessarily a bad thing OLS, you know this. BUT we don't really have them here and we muddle along ok. I can't speak for your situation because I'm not in it. I've managed to get through my life without a gun and I've survived bad experiences ok. For all that I hate that some people have a history of inflicting their shit on others, I'm also grateful that I've never used a gun against another person. I couldn't live with the consequences REGARDLESS of what that person did or was doing to me. But my situation is very different to yours. So I understand your sentiment and your reasoning but my situation is different.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Nope. sorry. You cannot pick what YOU wish to debate. Either you take on the entire issue or let it be.
    In this specific case (the Pittaras case), she was under attack and has the complete right to use deadly force because she did not know whether or not she would be killed by her attacker. She made the right decision because there is a good probable outcome resulting in the end of her life.
    In the Horn case... he went out looking for a fight. He had the police dispatcher on the phone as it was happening. his life was NOT in danger until he made the decision to step outside and into the situation... a situation that Horn could have clearly avoided. Pittaras was not given the choice... she did not place herself in danger.
    You are trying to compare Apples and Volvos. They do not compare.
    ...
    Finally... what kind of laywer were you?

    i practiced family law.

    and i did pick what i wanted to debate. just as anyone else who posts a thread. if you don't like the subject; move on.

    i'm not comparing the two. there were several threads last week where peoples ideals were presented which clashed with this senareo.

    as for finding where the neighbours said she should have let him rape her; sometimes you have to read between the lines; and read the entire atricle. if the neighbours were upset and say she shouldn't have shot him; WHAT OTHER BLOODY CHOICE WAS THERE? if he was there to kill her; he would have slit her throat instead of tussling about; enough for her to reach her gun. sometimes common sense is needed.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    onelongsong wrote:
    i can search thousands of cases where someone was home when their house was invaded; but that's not my point.
    my point was; THAT IF YOU'RE WILLING TO ENTER SOMEONES HOME; YOU MUST BE PREPARED IN THE EVENT SOMEONE IS HOME.

    well of course you could. if someone was home when their house was invaded and they manage to catch the bad guy in flagranti delicto then sure chances are they could press charges. if someone breaks into my house while im at uni, then chances are rather good that im never gonna know who did it, so then in all likelihood there will be no case to cite.
    i think the mindset of someone who does not care if a home is occupied when they decide to burgle it, is different from the burglar whose only concern is to get the loot and get away scot free with no complications.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say

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