ae911truth.org

RolandTD20Kdrummer · September 2007

chopitdown wrote:

a nice summary
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11818067/the_low_post_the_hopeless_stupidity_of_911_conspiracies/4
To me, the 9/11 Truth movement is, itself, a classic example of the pathology of George Bush's America. Bush has presided over a country that has become hopelessly divided into insoluble, paranoid tribes, one of which happens to be Bush's own government. All of these tribes have things in common; they're insular movements that construct their own reality by cherry-picking the evidence they like from the vast information marketplace, violently disbelieve in the humanity of those outside their ranks, and lavishly praise their own movement mediocrities as great thinkers and achievers. There are as many Thomas Paines in the 9/11 Truth movement as there are Isaac Newtons among the Intelligent Design crowd.

There's not a whole lot of difference, psychologically, between Sean Hannity's followers believing liberals to be the same as terrorists, and 9/11 Truthers believing even the lowest soldier or rank-and-file FAA or NORAD official to be a cold-blooded mass murderer. In both cases you have to be far gone enough into your private world of silly tribal bullshit that the concept of "your fellow citizen" has ceased to have any meaning whatsoever. It may be that America has become too big and complicated for most people to deal with being part of. People are longing for a smaller, stupider reality. Some, like Bush, sell a prepackaged version. Others just make theirs up out of thin air. God help us.

I think you should look at the URL I posted and Richard Gage's analysis (post #4 url) before commenting.

You may wish to let it load in the background and skip ahead and watch the last hour.

Half of New Yorkers believe there was a conspiracy.

Traces of thermite were found. Molten steel was also found.

Apparently dust collected from a womans balcony across the way from the WTC contained precipitated drops (round balls) of vaporized steel.

All interesting.

stu gee · September 2007

I find it interesting how some conspiracy theorists choose to believe some government produced figures that support their arguments, and then discount others that go against or disprove them. How do you choose what to believe, or choose what and what isnt a conspiracy?

chopitdown · September 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Question how many people do you think it would take?

to rig 3 skyscrapers for complete demolition? I have no idea. But that dodges the question of how they got away with it w/o ANYONE seeing it or anyone saying anything. People have such big mouths and they brag about everything. I still say it's surprising that no one has taken responsibility for this. Esp in wake of the security upgrades that occurred after the bombing in the early 90's. You can't tell me that if someone got through all the security and were able to bring controlled demolition devices into not 1 or 2 but 3 world trade center buildings they wouldn't be bragging about it. Terrorists claim repsonsibility for anything they can and you would think that if they could claim pulling THAT off would def strengthen their cause b/c it could show that they really could get into anywhere. They could get to planes, they could get into 3 buildings that have state of the art security and have already experienced bombings.

facepollution · September 2007

stu gee wrote:

Face Polluction has just referred to a subject that was discussed at great length in another thread a while ago, and has conveniently left out the arguments and answers that people who disagreed with his theory provided.

Hey, the point I'm making was not a completely detailed analysis of the events that day, but a common sense over view of something that just doesn't add up. Another example would be the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon. We can debate what actually happened all day long, but it's quicker to look at what quite blatantly didn't happen, for example if a plane is vaporized upon crashing, the chances of ALL the people on board being identified by DNA is quite logically not possible. And the problem is, if one part of the puzzle doesn't fit exactly, then you have to presume the rest of it is probably wrong too.

stu gee wrote:

I think that some of the people who post on here about supposed conspiracies come across as incredibly arrogant in the way they struggle to deal with people who hold a different opinion from them. I dont profess to know everything about what happened on 9/11, and dont always have the decent answers that pj Gurl is looking for, but dont take that as an invitation to present your answers as the truth.

Bye now.

See I read stuff like this all the time. It should go without saying, that every opinion anyone on here has, is THEIR opinion. Just because I say I'm adamant that the government isn't being honest, doesn't mean it's fact - that is surely obvious?

I don't profess to know what happened that day, I'm just going on the factual stuff. The fact that hundreds of architects and structual engineers are saying something doesn't add up, is far more convincing than some average Joe coming up with a theory.

facepollution · September 2007

chopitdown wrote:

to rig 3 skyscrapers for complete demolition? I have no idea. But that dodges the question of how they got away with it w/o ANYONE seeing it or anyone saying anything. People have such big mouths and they brag about everything. I still say it's surprising that no one has taken responsibility for this. Esp in wake of the security upgrades that occurred after the bombing in the early 90's. You can't tell me that if someone got through all the security and were able to bring controlled demolition devices into not 1 or 2 but 3 world trade center buildings they wouldn't be bragging about it. Terrorists claim repsonsibility for anything they can and you would think that if they could claim pulling THAT off would def strengthen their cause b/c it could show that they really could get into anywhere. They could get to planes, they could get into 3 buildings that have state of the art security and have already experienced bombings.

I heard that the buildings were evacuated on a number of occasions in the weeks leading up to 9/11. Plus it wouldn't be hard for engineers to go in saying they were doing structual work. Or for them to be doing work over night.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · September 2007

chopitdown wrote:

to rig 3 skyscrapers for complete demolition? I have no idea. But that dodges the question of how they got away with it w/o ANYONE seeing it or anyone saying anything. People have such big mouths and they brag about everything. I still say it's surprising that no one has taken responsibility for this. Esp in wake of the security upgrades that occurred after the bombing in the early 90's. You can't tell me that if someone got through all the security and were able to bring controlled demolition devices into not 1 or 2 but 3 world trade center buildings they wouldn't be bragging about it. Terrorists claim repsonsibility for anything they can and you would think that if they could claim pulling THAT off would def strengthen their cause b/c it could show that they really could get into anywhere. They could get to planes, they could get into 3 buildings that have state of the art security and have already experienced bombings.

Do you think 9 months would be long enough? That is how long people were coming and going in and out of the elevator shafts upgrading the elevators. I think a very small team (10 or less) could have enough time. What would security need to know other than the elevators are shut down and being worked on?

You have to get your head around the fact that some people wanted this to happen very badly, and for a specific reason. They also don't necessarily have to be alive anymore either.

stu gee · September 2007

facepollution wrote:

Hey, the point I'm making was not a completely detailed analysis of the events that day, but a common sense over view of something that just doesn't add up. Another example would be the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon. We can debate what actually happened all day long, but it's quicker to look at what quite blatantly didn't happen, for example if a plane is vaporized upon crashing, the chances of ALL the people on board being identified by DNA is quite logically not possible. And the problem is, if one part of the puzzle doesn't fit exactly, then you have to presume the rest of it is probably wrong too.

See I read stuff like this all the time. It should go without saying, that every opinion anyone on here has, is THEIR opinion. Just because I say I'm adamant that the government isn't being honest, doesn't mean it's fact - that is surely obvious?

I don't profess to know what happened that day, I'm just going on the factual stuff. The fact that hundreds of architects and structual engineers are saying something doesn't add up, is far more convincing than some average Joe coming up with a theory.

The second part of my post wasnt directed exclusively at you.

There have been architects and structural engineers who have argued against the ones who you have chosen to believe, how have you chosen who is right?

chopitdown · September 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Do you think 9 months would be long enough? That is how long people were coming and going in and out of the elevator shafts upgrading the elevators. I think a very small team (10 or less) could have enough time. What would security need to know other than the elevators are shut down and being worked on?

You have to get your head around the fact that some people wanted this to happen very badly.

people did want it to happen very badly, we just disagree on certain people who wanted it to happen. My guess is that extreme arrogance got the best of the administration during this time (and prob still is running rampant). No one had done what happened. There is a big difference b/t being too arrogant to act (the "these terrorists cant really pull this off b/c we're america" philosophy) and pulling the strings behind the scenes. Ignorance, arrogance are not the same as instigation. If it's brought to light not by speculation, but by fact, that they allowed and helped orchestrate this to happen I'll be right there with you calling for their resignation and their heads.

spiral out · September 2007

stu gee wrote:

Go back and find the huge thread dedicated to this subject for some possible answers.

These questions come from the Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division.

JamMastaE · September 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I think you should look at the URL I posted and Richard Gage's analysis (post #4 url) before commenting.

You may wish to let it load in the background and skip ahead and watch the last hour.

Half of New Yorkers believe there was a conspiracy.

Traces of thermite were found. Molten steel was also found.

Apparently dust collected from a womans balcony across the way from the WTC contained precipitated drops (round balls) of vaporized steel.

All interesting.

there you go posting facts and evidence again!! when will you learn?

it's not an inside job unless the mass media or popular mechanics says it is.

so shut up and go back to sleep like the rest of the sheep around here.

chopitdown · September 2007

JamMastaE wrote:

there you go posting facts and evidence again!! when will you learn?

it's not an inside job unless the mass media or popular mechanics says it is.

so shut up and go back to sleep like the rest of the sheep around here.

All of these tribes have things in common; they're insular movements that construct their own reality by cherry-picking the evidence they like from the vast information marketplace, violently disbelieve in the humanity of those outside their ranks, and lavishly praise their own movement mediocrities as great thinkers and achievers.

JamMastaE · September 2007

chopitdown wrote:

All of these tribes have things in common; they're insular movements that construct their own reality by cherry-picking the evidence they like from the vast information marketplace, violently disbelieve in the humanity of those outside their ranks, and lavishly praise their own movement mediocrities as great thinkers and achievers.

no what we have in common is simple:intelligent,INDEPENDENT THINKERS can see the governments story has more holes than a swiss cheese factory and we all agree all the evidence and attempted cover up by the 9-11 commission report (like the warren commission)warrants another INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION

and the "experts" that try to debunk the TRUTH can always be traced back to some government affiliation or control.

Joseph Gobles would have loved all you dumbed down Americans!!!

covered in bliss · September 2007

chopitdown wrote:

no one is saying the government is not hiding anything. But there is a huge difference b/t the gov't wanting to save face (which let's face it...we all know there were breakdowns that day which is the area in which most people want answers) and the govt actually conspiring to do this by blowing up buildings and crashing jets.

I think the government knew something was going to happen involving an airplane(s) but they didn't know specifics. They didn't know "how", "when" or "where" so they couldn't act.

When you think about it, what could they have done? Grounded all air transportation indefinitely? Imagine the effects of that happening! Panic, confusion, financial markets going crazy, etc.

Is the government hiding facts and not owning up to failures? Absolutely. Do we as citizens have a right to know every little detail about every little thing that happens, as it is happening? Not really, IMO. Think about how much secrecy was involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis...

9/11 is a horrible thing, all around.

facepollution · September 2007

stu gee wrote:

The second part of my post wasnt directed exclusively at you.

There have been architects and structural engineers who have argued against the ones who you have chosen to believe, how have you chosen who is right?

Ok, lets say it was feasibly possible that WTC7 fell the way the government say it happened, or that the plane that went down over Shanksville did indeed end up vaporizing in a ten meter hole, leaving barely any indication that a plane had crashed there, or that the plane that crashed into the Pentagon did indeed manage to vaporize steel, but not the bodies of the people in it. BUT what are the chances of ALL of these things happening in a highly unusual fashion? From the US governments accounts, virtually everything happened in an incredibly different way than would typically happen in the given circumstances. Like I said, the very basic facts just don't add up, let alone all the really technical stuff.

chopitdown · September 2007

JamMastaE wrote:

no what we have in common is simple:intelligent,INDEPENDENT THINKERS can see the governments story has more holes than a swiss cheese factory and we all agree all the evidence and attempted cover up by the 9-11 commission report (like the warren commission)

and the "experts" that try to debunk the TRUTH can always be traced back to some government affiliation or control.

Joseph Gobles would have loved all you dumbed down Americans!!!

yep, the gov't stories do have problems but that doesn't mean they are behind it all. and your opinion is no more truth than the opinions given in the 911 commission report. Calling it the truth doesn't make it the truth. If it's just truth for you that's called an opinion. I dont' think anyone here has said they believe the whole government story, as much as it seems the conspiracy theorists would like to believe. It's like you're either with us (conspiracy theorists) or against us. Maybe, just maybe people who are capable of independent thought arrive at different conclusions than you, given all the opinion floating around.

chopitdown · September 2007

covered in bliss wrote:

I think the government knew something was going to happen involving an airplane(s) but they didn't know specifics. They didn't know "how", "when" or "where" so they couldn't act.

When you think about it, what could they have done? Grounded all air transportation indefinitely? Imagine the effects of that happening! Panic, confusion, financial markets going crazy, etc.

Is the government hiding facts and not owning up to failures? Absolutely. Do we as citizens have a right to know every little detail about every little thing that happens, as it is happening? Not really, IMO. Think about how much secrecy was involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis...

9/11 is a horrible thing, all around.

the only thing i disagree with is that we do have a right to know, maybe not as it's happening, but we do deserve and the politicians have a responsibility to be forthright with the people who put them in charge. And I agree that 9/11 is a horrible thing all around.

JamMastaE · September 2007

covered in bliss wrote:

Do we as citizens have a right to know every little detail about every little thing that happens, as it is happening? Not really, IMO.

you fucking people make me SICK!!!!!!

of course we have a right to know!!! WE are the power,not the government!!

go read the declaration of independence and get a clue!!!

your slave mentality is UN-AMERICAN!!!

JamMastaE · September 2007

chopitdown wrote:

yep, the gov't stories do have problems but that doesn't mean they are behind it all. and your opinion is no more truth than the opinions given in the 911 commission report. Calling it the truth doesn't make it the truth. If it's just truth for you that's called an opinion. I dont' think anyone here has said they believe the whole government story, as much as it seems the conspiracy theorists would like to believe. It's like you're either with us (conspiracy theorists) or against us. Maybe, just maybe people who are capable of independent thought arrive at different conclusions than you, given all the opinion floating around.

there is opinion and there is fact!! there is no gray area in dealing with fact!!
does jet fuel burn hot enough to melt steel? no! that's a fact.you can argue and you can lie and you can say your expert knows more about burning jet fuel than me.at the end of the day your still full of shit and the fact remains a fact no matter how hard you try to warp it or convince yourself otherwise.

jlew24asu · September 2007

JamMastaE wrote:

there is opinion and there is fact!! there is no gray area in dealing with fact!!
does jet fuel burn hot enough to melt steel? no! that's a fact.you can argue and you can lie and you can say your expert knows more about burning jet fuel than me.at the end of the day your still full of shit and the fact remains a fact no matter how hard you try to warp it or convince yourself otherwise.

guess what else is a fact. jet fuel burns more then hot enough to weaken steel.

chopitdown · September 2007

JamMastaE wrote:

there is opinion and there is fact!! there is no gray area in dealing with fact!!
does jet fuel burn hot enough to melt steel? no! that's a fact.you can argue and you can lie and you can say your expert knows more about burning jet fuel than me.at the end of the day your still full of shit and the fact remains a fact no matter how hard you try to warp it or convince yourself otherwise.

first, it's "you're full of shit" and coming from someone as authoritative as you I take that as a big compliment... so thank you.

I've never said that steel was melted. The sun is really hot too and that's hot enough to melt steel so by using that fact I am convinced that the sun came down and melted the steel. Now i'm not sure how the sun came down to do this, but I know it did b/c it's hot enough to melt steel. :rolleyes:

Is it possible that the gov't pulled off some huge scheme, sure there's a possibility on some level. Is there a better chance that the planes that flew into the buildings caused a lot of destruction and weakened structures and they came down? possibly. Maybe they should just rebuild the wtc somewhere to the exact specifications have independent groups come in and verify that it matches the blue prints, stock the model with the exact same things and then fly a plane into it and see what happens...again.

ae911truth.org

Comments

Categories