Higher Minimum Wages

cincybearcat
cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
edited April 2007 in A Moving Train
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070330/BIZ01/303300033

When you add all the price increases I wonder if people making making more money is really giving them any more in their pockets.
hippiemom = goodness
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    It's probably not. I'm against the concept of a minimum wage.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    You may see a bit more spending power for about 6 months. After that the wage increase and resulting increase in cost of production will be reflected in just about you buy. Raising minimum wage does not help anyone in the long run. Only getting an education that allows you to work at higher valued jobs will help.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    surferdude wrote:
    Only getting an education that allows you to work at higher valued jobs will help.


    So you have to spend money to make money? I have and never will buy into the higher education thing. Sure it is there, but it is truly biased. Somehow I think the person who is coming out of school knows all of about nothing of the company they are going in to. But hey, they have an education for all that is worth. And yes I know that companies look for the already molded crew over somebody with just a normal view and brains. Just my two cents on a way to say education is the way to go.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    even flow? wrote:
    So you have to spend money to make money? I have and never will buy into the higher education thing. Sure it is there, but it is truly biased. Somehow I think the person who is coming out of school knows all of about nothing of the company they are going in to. But hey, they have an education for all that is worth. And yes I know that companies look for the already molded crew over somebody with just a normal view and brains. Just my two cents on a way to say education is the way to go.


    All higher education does is show you are willing to make a long-term commitment (even longer for some) and follow it through. You do gain some valuable information regarding how you learn best and how you work best, which will ultimately help you down the line.

    What would a company like in it's employees?

    Dedication, foloow-through, loyalty, and a base from which to grow. College education gives you that.

    BUt back to min. wage....it is yet another meaningless item that some politicans latch to to make you think they are 'For the People' 'For the little guy'. It's lazy government.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    cincybearcat wrote:
    All higher education does is show you are willing to make a long-term commitment (even longer for some) and follow it through. You do gain some valuable information regarding how you learn best and how you work best, which will ultimately help you down the line.

    What would a company like in it's employees?

    Dedication, foloow-through, loyalty, and a base from which to grow. College education gives you that.

    BUt back to min. wage....it is yet another meaningless item that some politicans latch to to make you think they are 'For the People' 'For the little guy'. It's lazy government.


    I hear ya Cinici....


    As for the min wage and what is has to offer. It seems to me that the rate of inflation would and will offset any gains on having the wage go up.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    cincybearcat wrote:
    All higher education does is show you are willing to make a long-term commitment (even longer for some) and follow it through. You do gain some valuable information regarding how you learn best and how you work best, which will ultimately help you down the line.

    What would a company like in it's employees?

    Dedication, foloow-through, loyalty, and a base from which to grow. College education gives you that.

    BUt back to min. wage....it is yet another meaningless item that some politicans latch to to make you think they are 'For the People' 'For the little guy'. It's lazy government.

    Raising the minimum wage is like going to a dance club that lets you in for free.....they will raise the price of drinks to make up for the reduction in cover charges, so you end up spending just as much....you still leave with empty pockets.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    even flow? wrote:
    So you have to spend money to make money? I have and never will buy into the higher education thing. Sure it is there, but it is truly biased. Somehow I think the person who is coming out of school knows all of about nothing of the company they are going in to. But hey, they have an education for all that is worth. And yes I know that companies look for the already molded crew over somebody with just a normal view and brains. Just my two cents on a way to say education is the way to go.
    I don't want a doctor who says "Look I've got no education but I have a knack for things. Trust me." Nor do I want a building designer who says "I have no formal training but you should see me with lego blocks."

    Employment is a game, the rules basically say to make more money take a risk and go into business for yourself or get a professional deignation or a certified trades ticket. The rules won't change in my life time so I don't bother trying to fight them.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    surferdude wrote:
    I don't want a doctor who says "Look I've got no education but I have a knack for things. Trust me." Nor do I want a building designer who says "I have no formal training but you should see me with lego blocks."

    Employment is a game, the rules basically say to make more money take a risk and go into business for yourself or get a professional deignation or a certified trades ticket. The rules won't change in my life time so I don't bother trying to fight them.

    A degree or professional designation shows that someone has met standard, sometime minimum, requirements. This will get someone into a profession, but they will have to show more then minimum performance to progress.
  • _Crazy_Mary_
    _Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    I am 100% agains the min. wage incease. Plus in California, it went up $0.75 in January and it's set to go up another $0.50 next year. :( As if the cost of living wasn't high enough already.
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Want to raise the minimum wage? No problem -- just raise the minimum value of your labor.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    cincybearcat wrote:
    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070330/BIZ01/303300033

    When you add all the price increases I wonder if people making making more money is really giving them any more in their pockets.

    perhaps they have it wrong...they should lower wages, so everything will be less expensive...

    anyhoo, perhaps companies can look to lower costs elsewhere...just a thought...
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    inmytree wrote:
    perhaps they have it wrong...they should lower wages, so everything will be less expensive...

    anyhoo, perhaps companies can look to lower costs elsewhere...just a thought...

    Here's a crazy idea: allow the market to determine prices and dictate what should be "more expensive" and what should be "less expensive". But that would largely preclude people from being able to consume more than they produce, and we certainly couldn't allow that, could we?
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Here's a crazy idea: allow the market to determine prices and dictate what should be "more expensive" and what should be "less expensive". But that would largely preclude people from being able to consume more than they produce, and we certainly couldn't allow that, could we?

    whatever...

    how about lowering everyone's wages, so things are less expensive...that's how it works....right..?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    inmytree wrote:
    whatever...

    how about lowering everyone's wages, so things are less expensive...that's how it works....right..?

    Yes. If you forcibly lowered everyone's wages, prices would be forced to follow in a similar manner to the way they rise when you forcilby raise wages. But forcibly lowering wages is just as stupid as forcibly raising them -- either way you are eroding the links between wages, value, and prices or, more aptly, pretending those links don't exist.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Here's a crazy idea: allow the market to determine prices and dictate what should be "more expensive" and what should be "less expensive". But that would largely preclude people from being able to consume more than they produce, and we certainly couldn't allow that, could we?

    As much as I believe in a market-driven economy, there will always be a certain percentage of society that needs some help from the government. Lowering the minimum wage would just make more people eligible for government transfer payments.

    As true as it is that people need to learn to survive for themselves, etc, lowering minimum wage would just make the divide between rich and poor that much wider.

    Even if someone is against government assistance, they need to recognize that society as a whole suffers if the disenfranchised population continues to grow.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Yes. If you forcibly lowered everyone's wages, prices would be forced to follow in a similar manner to the way they rise when you forcilby raise wages. But forcibly lowering wages is just as stupid as forcibly raising them -- either way you are eroding the links between wages, value, and prices or, more aptly, pretending those links don't exist.

    you're talking greek to me...

    I thought the article posted pointed at the rise in minimum wages as the sole reason the cost of hamburger rising by 10 cents...

    so there's more to it...hmmm...

    I wonder, won't those other factors simply work out everything in the long run...?
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    The minimum wage has been raised numerous times in the past, and I know its shocking, the end of times didnt happen.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    As much as I believe in a market-driven economy, there will always be a certain percentage of society that needs some help from the government. Lowering the minimum wage would just make more people eligible for government transfer payments.

    So we should force individuals to suffer the costs of a minimum wage to prevent them from suffering the costs of welfare or public assistance? And there's no possible alternative to this?
    As true as it is that people need to learn to survive for themselves, etc, lowering minimum wage would just make the divide between rich and poor that much wider.

    Ok. Can you help me understand something? Why is it that people always damn the rich about the income value gap between rich and poor, but damn the poor about the labor value gap between rich and poor? How can the first be immoral, but the latter not be?
    Even if someone is against government assistance, they need to recognize that society as a whole suffers if the disenfranchised population continues to grow.

    I don't deal in bribes. Sorry.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    inmytree wrote:
    you're talking greek to me...

    Your labor has a value. That value is measured by the value of your labor's output to someone else. If you simply raise the price of your labor, you don't magically raise the value of that output. With me so far?
    I thought the article posted pointed at the rise in minimum wages as the sole reason the cost of hamburger rising by 10 cents...

    so there's more to it...hmmm...

    Of course there's "more to it". The minimum wage isn't the only factor in pricing. In the case of a hamburger joint, the minimum wage might be one of the primary factors in pricing and a $.10 increase in the minimum wage might very well map to a $.10 increase in prices. However, in the economy as a whole, the minimum wage is typically a tertiary factor in prices. So overall a $.10 increase in the minimum wage leads to a $.04 increase in prices.
    I wonder, won't those other factors simply work out everything in the long run...?

    Not really, no. It's why you constantly have to raise the minimum wage. You're paying people a value greater than the value of their labor. That in turn allows people to consume more than they produce. A large part of their consumption is paid for by nothing more than paper without any appreciable labor to back it. This decreases the value of the money supply and contributes to inflation, in turn raising prices for everyone.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    farfromglorified wrote:
    So we should force individuals to suffer the costs of a minimum wage to prevent them from suffering the costs of welfare or public assistance? And there's no possible alternative to this?



    Ok. Can you help me understand something? Why is it that people always damn the rich about the income value gap between rich and poor, but damn the poor about the labor value gap between rich and poor? How can the first be immoral, but the latter not be?



    I don't deal in bribes. Sorry.

    I appreciate your positions, which make perfect sense.

    But, if the underclass population continues to grow, do you think that those people could one day revolt (in terms of violence, crime, etc), and thus, diminish your quality of life?

    As an far-out analogy, imagine if you had neighbors who refused to cut their lawns, maintain their property, etc., and thus, it lessened the property value/ appeal of your neighborhood. Would you take any action?

    Obviously, it is up to your neighbors to maintain their property, but if they refused, would you help them out so that you home would not lose property value?

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