Thank you Tony Blair and GWB

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  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Palestinian fighters are civilians so to speak. They don't have military bases and if they did all gather in one neat location they would be wipeout by the technological weaponry provided by us....then they would be completely defenseless (which is what we want anyways, right?) There is no difference, they are both trying to defend themselves by the means they have necessary....it's just one is severely lacking in means and has to resort to guerilla warfare. They have no other option, other than rolling over and being ran out. I just wish they would cut out the offensive killing of civilians. It's not accomplishing anything but to give Israel the perfect excuse.

    Anyone who uses force against Israelis should no longer be considered a civilian per se. They become a combatant at that point. I totally agree with your last two sentences, though. It really does give Israel the excuse, if you want to use that term.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Human Tide wrote:
    Not bad.....I wonder if Miller would be willing to pose for some photographs to put on the trading cards. You know...shitting on the Koran, burning flags of Arab nations, praying to a bust of Hannity...classy stuff like that.

    You know... he probably already has some of those very pics up on his myspace right now!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Human Tide
    Human Tide Posts: 330
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    Yes, I do see differences. I see Israel defending itself against suicide and rocket attacks. I see Israel trying to compromise with Palestine and when they do they still get attacked. So, when they attack Palestinian fighters who surround themselves by civilians and some civilians die, I see that as different from when Saddam kills civilians so that he can stay a dictator.

    While sad that civilians die, sometimes it is of their own doing. The Lebanese cvilians and government let these terrorists setup shop in their neighborhoods. They know there are consequences to not standing up to these terrorist (the main one being eventually a terrorist will attack, and that country will fight back where the terrorists operate). Well, Hezbollah attacked, and Israel is fighting back. The way I see it, when Hezbollah comes into your neighborhood, you can either fight and have casualties, or wait for another country to come and do your dirty work for you and face casualties as well. They chose to accept the terrorists.

    You are lacking an adequate understanding of Hizbollah's origins and their role in Lebanon over the last 20+ years. You are also ignoring the fact that Israel still occupies Lebanese and Syrian land. This is not to say that Hizbollah's actions are unconditionally justified, but the situation is without question more complex that you portray it.

    The same can be said with regard to the Palestinians. One cannot discuss the situation without acknowledging the settler movement in the West Bank and Israel's actions with regard to East Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees.

    I do not have time to debate the whole issue tonight, but it is crucial to realize that this conflict is not one-sided. Each side is guilty of many crimes (yes, crimes), and to pretend otherwise is a product of ignorance.

    Believe me, there is subtlety in these issues. Don't be like that guy jsand that posts articles every day without a sliver of knowledge to intelligently discuss the topics.
  • Human Tide
    Human Tide Posts: 330
    reborncareerist wrote:
    OK. Thanks for this response. Seriously. I think I get it now. I still believe that it is possible (and desirable) to speak out against human rights violations anywhere in the world, assuming that the whole purpose isn't to deflect criticism from the U.S. government. And I think it is problematic to argue that the whole problem in some of these countries stems from U.S. foreign policy ... Some of these governments do need to be held accountable for their actions. However, I can't help but agree with you when you say that democratic countries can play a more positive role in reshaping the politics of developing nations, particularly in the Middle East. Warfare and force should not be the only options (as they aren't in other parts of the world).

    Yes, we should absolutely speak out. A great way to start is by getting our governments to start a real discussion about improving human rights in these countries. Saudi Arabia would be a great place to start. It's also worth noting that results must be judged based on the direction some of the countries are moving, rather than the absolute state in which they are. Seeing some positive change is where we need to begin, not with unrealistic demands for overnight change.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Maybe I'm guilty as charged, and I SHOULD complain more about many of the U.S.'s so-called allies ... Indonesia ... Pakistan ... The Saudis. But that doesn't make your silence about America's so-called enemies any more right than mine about their friends.

    Right. I take the stance I do because I fear another war....that pushes me to speak out against such ideas more vocally. Ruthless dictatorships are one thing, bombing the shit out of another country is another.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • fanch75
    fanch75 Posts: 3,734
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Terrorism.. Terrorism... Terrorism!!!!

    Fear!! Death!! Terrorism!!!

    Weapons.. Fear!!! Death.. mass destruction!!

    Terrorism!!!

    Is it working? Are you guys scared yet? Can I take all your freedoms now?

    But if those planes were blown up, it'd be "Where was Bush? He is a failure at fighting terrorism"

    maybe not from you, b/c i don't know you, but people would be saying that. i never knew that "blowing up a plane full of people going on vacation is bad" was such a politically-divisive issue.
    Do you remember Rock & Roll Radio?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    fanch75 wrote:
    But if those planes were blown up, it'd be "Where was Bush? He is a failure at fighting terrorism"

    maybe not from you, b/c i don't know you, but people would be saying that. i never knew that "blowing up a plane full of people going on vacation is bad" was such a politically-divisive issue.

    This reminds me of highschool. You know when that really cool kid beats the shit out of a "loser" in front of his friends and they all think he's even cooler.

    Life doesn't change much after highschool unfortunately.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • fanch75
    fanch75 Posts: 3,734
    Explain. Obviously, I don't have the sophistication to understand.
    Do you remember Rock & Roll Radio?
  • ladygooddiva
    ladygooddiva Posts: 4,169
    and???????????????????
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    miller8966 wrote:
    Because of the intelligence measures you implicated the "civilized" world is much safer. Id like to especially thank TOny Blair and all hes done for his country and his people. He knew at once that muslim extremism is a disease that must be wiped off the face of this earth.

    "British and Pakistani authorities teamed up to thwart the attacks, and 24 men were arrested in overnight raids in Britain, authorities said.

    An undercover British agent infiltrated the group, giving the authorities intelligence on the alleged plan, several U.S. government officials said.

    The men had not bought plane tickets, the officials said, but they were in the process of perusing the Internet to find flights to various cities that had similar departure times."
    Dude, if they can stage 9/11 they can certainly stage this bullshit. I'm very skeptical about this. Just what dubya and the neo-cons needed to push their agenda to continue turning the U.S. into a police state. I'm absolutely disgusted by dubya's words today. I can only think of two things from Ed regarding Bush: "Drilling for fear makes their job simple" and "That fucking son of a bitch."
  • rarghrargh-brownstar
    rarghrargh-brownstar Posts: 1,272
    man i am outta the loop.

    gonna put the tv on first thing in the morning. as for now, i am catching up with reading about this.

    I just found out by a "mood" (even just on the puter too).

    *strong prayers*
    Rarghstarfarian.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    miller8966 wrote:
    Because of the intelligence measures you implicated the "civilized" world is much safer. Id like to especially thank TOny Blair and all hes done for his country and his people. He knew at once that muslim extremism is a disease that must be wiped off the face of this earth.

    "British and Pakistani authorities teamed up to thwart the attacks, and 24 men were arrested in overnight raids in Britain, authorities said.

    An undercover British agent infiltrated the group, giving the authorities intelligence on the alleged plan, several U.S. government officials said.

    The men had not bought plane tickets, the officials said, but they were in the process of perusing the Internet to find flights to various cities that had similar departure times."

    The Bush administration and Tony Blair were warned by their top advisors that invading Iraq and Afghanistan would increase the risk of terrorism in the world, but they lied to us about their reasons for invading and went ahead regardless. Yes, thakyou Tony Blair and George Bush for making the world a more dangerous place. And thanks on behalf of all those Americans and Brits who will be killed by terrorists in the future, and those who will now be feeling at risk of attack when travelling abroad.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    hailhailkc wrote:
    I think FinsburyParkCarrots donned his Nightranger costume and set out to help us rid the world of these troublesome terrorist scum. ;)

    Finsbury is a closet Republican anyway…it's SO obvious. :D

    Oh, when I forget myself, I'm as right wing and reactionary as the next person. It's when I remember myself and others, that I'm a leftie. :p

    Well, somebody had to do something yesterday. Blair fooked off on holiday, knowing this was all unfolding. Blair shouldn't be thanked for anything, and neither should Bush. If people are so inclined, they should thank MI5 and the Metropolitan Police Force of Great Britain for their vigilance, and applaud the Home Secretary Dr John Reid.

    I'm interested to see how all this unfolds.
  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    God bless this fuckin mess
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad

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