Iraq War Vets talk about randomly killing civilians

13

Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Well, first off, I'd like to begin by saying that I support the troops... Which hopefully makes everything I say from here on out O.K., right?




    Secondly, yes I support the current operations inside Iraq. When Al-Qaeda has been eradicated it will be time to come home. No need interfering with civil disputes. We're beginning to see the impact Al-Qaeda is having inside Iraq with the recent developments of U.S. and Sunni forces now fighting alongside each other. Who knew? Not one word from the Sunni's about "Bush brought Al-Qaeda to Iraq" or any of that other garbage liberals in this country love to spew. They're starting to understand the impact of terrorism; as we did four years ago. Did the administration juice a few things up leading up to the invasion? I'm sure they did. I believe it to be rather niave to believe otherwise. Did they lie on levels that people in your corner want me to believe? No way in hell. Not even close. The events of the '80s alone justify most of the reasoning. The rhetoric from both sides of the aisle throughout the '90s was the same and it continued through 2000. I also understand that hindsight is 20/20. Please Democrats, tell us more... But, by jumping on the 20/20 train you don't become some sort of genius that could have prevented all the worlds problems simply because your votes happen to match up. Do you want me to ramble on about Iraq further? I can.

    Do you want me to sit here and spit out bullshit about how you're partly to blame for the deaths of Cliff Wolcott and Donovan Briley? Or the thousands of dead civilians who died in Bosnia? What about that poor janitor inside the aspirin factory?

    Al Queda weren't in Iraq until after the invasion. Just as the Bush administration's top advisor's predicted before the invasion, an invasion of Iraq would increase the risk of terrorism in the world. Because terrorism is good for business, and the Bush administration couldn't give a fuck about the lives of innocent American citizens, they invaded anyway.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Yeah, we get it. :) Read the article I posted. Mr. Policeman is about to go bye-bye.
    ...
    Umm... which article?
    ...
    If you are talking about the one comment about our troops fighting along side the Sunnis to get Al Qaeda... is it just the Sunnis? Or is it the Sunnis and the Shi'ites and the Kurds fighting along side with Americans against Al Qaeda?
    See... the thing that bothers me... what is the plan to get the Shi'ites and Sunnis to forget about 1,400 years of hatred based upon their religious beliefs? Tell one side that their side got the whole thing wrong? Or give them the ol' hippie slogan of, "Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together... try to love one another, right now"? I'm thinking that if you arm them all and they do get rid of Al Qaeda (who got pulled in when the power vaccuum hit)... they might just turn those guns on each other. You know, because of the 1,400 years of deep seated hated towards each other based upon their religious beliefs.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Lestat14
    Lestat14 Posts: 12
    If you are pro-war, and this post certainly looks that way, what on earth are you doing on a Pearl Jam forum? My understanding of EV & Co is that they are rabidly anti-war.

    You can say whatever you want, and bitch at one another about who voted for who or voted for what, but you'll never know the "truth" of what politicians say or do, or what happens to the votes once they are cast, for that matter. Little Johnny Howard is so far up George W's arse, that he's fortunate if he sees daylight a all any more, but then this Australian gov. is good at using "terror as a con" also.

    Truly, what is war any good for? Murder & mayhem, are the only two things that come to my mind. It is, at the very least, unbelievable, that we can live in these times, and still accept that war is unavoidable, in so far, as problem solving is concerned.

    Good wishes to you all

    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Well, first off, I'd like to begin by saying that I support the troops... Which hopefully makes everything I say from here on out O.K., right?




    Secondly, yes I support the current operations inside Iraq. When Al-Qaeda has been eradicated it will be time to come home. No need interfering with civil disputes. We're beginning to see the impact Al-Qaeda is having inside Iraq with the recent developments of U.S. and Sunni forces now fighting alongside each other. Who knew? Not one word from the Sunni's about "Bush brought Al-Qaeda to Iraq" or any of that other garbage liberals in this country love to spew. They're starting to understand the impact of terrorism; as we did four years ago. Did the administration juice a few things up leading up to the invasion? I'm sure they did. I believe it to be rather niave to believe otherwise. Did they lie on levels that people in your corner want me to believe? No way in hell. Not even close. The events of the '80s alone justify most of the reasoning. The rhetoric from both sides of the aisle throughout the '90s was the same and it continued through 2000. I also understand that hindsight is 20/20. Please Democrats, tell us more... But, by jumping on the 20/20 train you don't become some sort of genius that could have prevented all the worlds problems simply because your votes happen to match up. Do you want me to ramble on about Iraq further? I can.

    Do you want me to sit here and spit out bullshit about how you're partly to blame for the deaths of Cliff Wolcott and Donovan Briley? Or the thousands of dead civilians who died in Bosnia? What about that poor janitor inside the aspirin factory?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Lestat14 wrote:
    If you are pro-war, and this post certainly looks that way, what on earth are you doing on a Pearl Jam forum? My understanding of EV & Co is that they are rabidly anti-war.

    it's called freedom of speech. you can say whatever you like on the forum as long as you dont call people names and question their parentage. personally i am sure i disagree with EV & Co on many things. oh and im sure not gonna be antiwar just cause some band is. :)
    hear my name
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Byrnzie wrote:
    It was people like you, who voted for Bush, who can claim a share of the responsibility for all the dead and maimed American troops in Iraq in the last 4 years. Well done!
    Anyone who cares about their fellow Americans, and who voted for Bush, should feel ashamed and angry.
    Obviously, though, some people care more about the bank balances of the rich and powerful in America than they do about the increased threat of terrorism - courtesy of Bush et al - and of seeing American sons and daughters maimed and killed in a bullshit war.

    oh byrnzie so beneath you. :rolleyes: he said he voted for Bush in 2000. i can understand that. afterall what was the alternative? but voting for Bush in 2004 that is a different thing.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    ...
    Secondly, yes I support the current operations inside Iraq. When Al-Qaeda has been eradicated it will be time to come home. No need interfering with civil disputes. We're beginning to see the impact Al-Qaeda is having inside Iraq with the recent developments of U.S. and Sunni forces now fighting alongside each other. Who knew? Not one word from the Sunni's about "Bush brought Al-Qaeda to Iraq" or any of that other garbage liberals in this country love to spew. They're starting to understand the impact of terrorism; as we did four years ago. Did the administration juice a few things up leading up to the invasion? I'm sure they did. I believe it to be rather niave to believe otherwise. Did they lie on levels that people in your corner want me to believe? No way in hell. Not even close. The events of the '80s alone justify most of the reasoning. The rhetoric from both sides of the aisle throughout the '90s was the same and it continued through 2000. I also understand that hindsight is 20/20. Please Democrats, tell us more... But, by jumping on the 20/20 train you don't become some sort of genius that could have prevented all the worlds problems simply because your votes happen to match up. Do you want me to ramble on about Iraq further? I can.
    ...
    I'm getting a better understanding on where you are coming from... you support the overall objective... to eradicate terrorism. And that the War In Iraq is a part of this process to end global terrorism. That I get.
    I just need to understand how dedicated to this you are. I have always wondered... would you be this supportive if this were Al Gore's War? Like, would you be defending Al Gore from my criticisms of how he had sold us this war based upon information skewed by the Democratic Administration? How about railing on the Republicans that would be making the same arguements against the Democratic President (to believe this would not be the case would be an admission of naivity)?
    I'm also against terrorists. But, the plan to make more terrorists to get rid of them? Not so much. Afghanistan and Pakistan... and Iran should be higher on the list of priorities. And IF this mission is so important? Why do it on the cheap? To get the job done... 400,000 combat trainned U.S. (trustworthy) troops to seal and secure a nation under martial and a strict curfew til those fuckers settle down. Costs? Figure about twice the amount we're in for... $700 billion times 2 so far. That's how you 'Git it done'.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    catefrances wrote:
    oh byrnzie so beneath you. :rolleyes: he said he voted for Bush in 2000. i can understand that. afterall what was the alternative? but voting for Bush in 2004 that is a different thing.

    O.k. Apologies all round. Shit, I'll even give him a kiss if it makes him feel better. :)
    I think the sun here today may have gotten to me. :o
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Byrnzie wrote:
    O.k. Apologies all round. Shit, I'll even give him a kiss if it makes him feel better. :)
    I think the sun here today may have gotten to me. :o


    ooh boys kissing. can i watch? :D:p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    catefrances wrote:
    ooh boys kissing. can i watch? :D:p

    Errm...sure. It won't involve tongues though. At least not without a large payment up front. ;)
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Errm...sure. It won't involve tongues though. At least not without a large payment up front. ;)


    ah forget it then. no tongue. no fun. :D:p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • sapperskunk
    sapperskunk Posts: 684
    El_Kabong wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/xMe08e2wMZk

    I watched about as far as the first guy saying what his unit does after hitting an "IMPROVED explosive device".

    I think everybody in the world is familiar with the term improvised explosive device. Kinda makes you wonder if this guy sat behind a radio his entire deployment and is possibly embellishing rumors he heard from a guy who in turn heard from another guy.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sapperskunk wrote:
    I watched about as far as the first guy saying what his unit does after hitting an "IMPROVED explosive device".

    I think everybody in the world is familiar with the term improvised explosive device. Kinda makes you wonder if this guy sat behind a radio his entire deployment and is possibly embellishing rumors he heard from a guy who in turn heard from another guy.

    Yeah, because if these guys are saying something different than your take on it...they must be making shit up. :rolleyes:
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • sapperskunk
    sapperskunk Posts: 684
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Yeah, because if these guys are saying something different than your take on it...they must be making shit up. :rolleyes:


    Wow, I've had a 4 month hiatus from the boards and my first post today gets abook flippin me shit right off the bat. Nice.

    Good to hear from you again too. (Sniffle) I really missed you guys.

    I just love how people eat these vets words up like crazy. That idiot was the best the veteran anti-war movement could do? Yikes.

    On the other hand, I really should start doin this shit too, I'll put on the old desert uniform, head down to some anti-war rally and screw every nieve sympathetic stinky hippie slut that feels "sorry" for me. On second thought, I'd rather stay STD free, everybody knows how dirty those left wind ideological windbags are.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sapperskunk wrote:
    Wow, I've had a 4 month hiatus from the boards and my first post today gets abook flippin me shit right off the bat. Nice.

    Good to hear from you again too. (Sniffle) I really missed you guys.

    I just love how people eat these vets words up like crazy. That idiot was the best the veteran anti-war movement could do? Yikes.

    On the other hand, I really should start doin this shit too, I'll put on the old desert uniform, head down to some anti-war rally and screw every nieve sympathetic stinky hippie slut that feels "sorry" for me. On second thought, I'd rather stay STD free, everybody knows how dirty those left wind ideological windbags are.

    classy.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • sapperskunk
    sapperskunk Posts: 684
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    classy.

    Like this place is the Ritz.

    And I really don't care anymore. Cheers.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    sapperskunk wrote:
    Wow, I've had a 4 month hiatus from the boards and my first post today gets abook flippin me shit right off the bat. Nice.

    Good to hear from you again too. (Sniffle) I really missed you guys.

    I just love how people eat these vets words up like crazy. That idiot was the best the veteran anti-war movement could do? Yikes.

    On the other hand, I really should start doin this shit too, I'll put on the old desert uniform, head down to some anti-war rally and screw every nieve sympathetic stinky hippie slut that feels "sorry" for me. On second thought, I'd rather stay STD free, everybody knows how dirty those left wind ideological windbags are.
    ...
    I think it all depends upon your own view of the war...
    If you are against the war, then every negative story you hear from soldiers is the truth... for the war, everything reported as negative is questionable.
    For the war, then positives are truth and the propaganda to the anti-War group.
    ...
    What I believe we should be doing is listening to what the soldiers have to say and quit questioning if what they are saying is true or not. And i'm talking about the soldiers, not the Generals or the Pentagon. The soldiers are there and they see it... we are not. And the pentagon is nothing but a bunch of suits and brass.
    ...
    I believe there are good things and heinous things going on over there. We should not be censored from the truth. And sometimes the truth is hideous and cold and ugly... but it is the truth.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • sapperskunk
    sapperskunk Posts: 684
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I think it all depends upon your own view of the war...
    If you are against the war, then every negative story you hear from soldiers is the truth... for the war, everything reported as negative is questionable.
    For the war, then positives are truth and the propaganda to the anti-War group.
    ...
    What I believe we should be doing is listening to what the soldiers have to say and quit questioning if what they are saying is true or not. And i'm talking about the soldiers, not the Generals or the Pentagon. The soldiers are there and they see it... we are not. And the pentagon is nothing but a bunch of suits and brass.
    ...
    I believe there are good things and heinous things going on over there. We should not be censored from the truth. And sometimes the truth is hideous and cold and ugly... but it is the truth.

    Very well said Cosmo,

    Nasty shit HAS happened out there, but to hear it from this dipshit vet makes me laugh. I mean JESUS CHRIST, he doesn't even know what IED stands for! How about a more credible, articulate and intelligent troop as an alternative, not some vet reject embraced by liberal PAC's.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • OneLove
    OneLove Posts: 563
    I just got back from dropping a friend off at the airport. He's back to Iraq after a two week R&R (he is a contractor). He had some interesting insights actually, and may chime in here in the pit once he gets back and settled.

    1) The troops are doing some good out there, don't believe that its all bad, even if it looks that way.

    2) The troops that he is around "get it" when you don't suppor the war... they know it dosnt mean you don't support them. (His words, knowing I don't support the war).

    3) Target practice happens over there, unfortunately. It could be a camel or some other animal, could be an innocent person, or a not so innocent person. I've heard some stories that made me sick. Unfortunately when you put ill equiped people in extreme conditions, they can fly off the deep end. Its a shitty thing about war, I'm not dismissing it at all, but it does happen.

    By and large the troops are wonderful people with the best of intentions, unfortunately the "feel good" stories don't get alot of play in the press. I say that not as a soldier, but as someone who has had two loved ones, and three friends over there with the army, and a good friend somewhere between here and there as a contractor as we speak.

    Its all fun and games spouting off on the board about this, but I wonder if anyone here has actually been directly involved. It would be interesting to see what a vets take on this is. Just for a different perspective. I know I am at most moderately discomforted by the war, unlike those who directly fight it. The world seems much simpler from my couch.
  • Bu2
    Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    especially to a kid who gets to graduate from videogames on the X-Box, to fighting in the real thing.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • PJ_Saluki
    PJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    That was tough to watch. War changes everything it touches.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley

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