Why Do Athiests

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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i thought miracles were due to unexplained "phenomena".

    yes he wants answers but what i meant was he was asking, "why did those miners that were constantly prayed for hoping they would make it alive end up dying?"

    i don't know.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    onelongsong wrote:
    people of religion welcome death. the ultimate prize is to be with God. i'm only 51 yet i have a standing DNR order. i've done more than most people; now i want something better. you speak of death like it's something bad; to others; it's the best part of life.
    ...
    Dying of poisonous gasses in the darkness of a fricken' coal mine... yeah, that's bad. So, is dying a long and protracted... painful death from cancer... yeah, I classify it as bad, too.
    We all want a peaceful death, religious or not... where we go to bed one night, after a long and rewarding lifetime, and simply do not wake up. But, that ain't always the way it goes down. People die horrible deaths... like slipping into a wood chipper, tumbling down a flight of stairs, mangled up in a crushed automobile, heart attacks while sitting on the can with your pants around your ankles, drawing your last breaths in the filthy gutter after being struck by a car... no one want to die this way. And what about the 7 year old girl that is killed after being raped by some pedophile psycho... is her death greater than her survival? Religious people welcome that? No. They welcome the going to sleep and not waking up. If you accept death so easily, you accept all the manners in which we die... not just the one way we want to go out of this place.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No one is smarter than you are Jeanie, they just have different knowledge.

    I agree with that statement mostly.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I happen to spend my time learning about such things instead of learning about automobiles, and consequently I know nothing about cars.

    Which is why we have mechanics. :D

    Or why other people may have a greater knowledge of some topics than we ourselves.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    onelongsong wrote:
    everyone wants answers. why do you think we're doing so much research?
    You have proclaimed the answer... water from Lourdes and parayer cures cancer.
    I'm asking, Why don't all cancer victims flock to Lourdes? and does every one that take the water get cured? If not, why not? Are they not worthy of living?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    How do you know how I would think if I was ill? Based on your own personal experiences. That's the same old song Jeanie. It means sweet fuck all to me.

    I don't know what you would think if you were ill. And I wasn't trying to tell you that I would know. :rolleyes: You do seem to have a reading comprehension problem with my posts. Or perhaps it's just that you doubt my intentions.
    Whatever, I was simply pointing out that when people are ill they usually have far too much on their mind to be worrying about what those around them are thinking or feeling. And even when they do have an understanding, usually have far too much thinking of their own to be trying to police the thoughts and feelings of others.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Cosmo wrote:
    You have proclaimed the answer... water from Lourdes and parayer cures cancer.
    I'm asking, Why don't all cancer victims flock to Lourdes? and does every one that take the water get cured? If not, why not? Are they not worthy of living?

    everyone can go.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    onelongsong wrote:
    everyone can go.
    ...
    But... they don't know, right? If what you say is true, why isn't it broadcast throughout the massive network of Cancer Treatments?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    hi jeanie,
    i know i'm not cosmo but i feel the need to answer this question anyway. you know how i get girl. ;):D
    i have friends and family who are religious, or who think they are anyway. they know that i am an atheist. what i would like from them is respect enough that they know how i would feel if i were aware they were praying for me. they know it would not be helping me. therefore i would assume, rightly or wrongly, that they would desist in 'wasting' their prayer on someone who believes they don't need saving nor the 'power' of prayer. :)

    And that's completely fair enough cate. :)
    I have had people pray for me that I would prefer didn't. But then I realized I would mostly prefered that they just buggered off and left me alone anyway. :D It wasn't the praying I objected to it was them. Least that's what I realized.
    Now if someone I love, and care for, who cares for me, feels the need to pray when I am ill I just accept that as their way of coping and I know that ultimately they love me so I am appreciative of that.
    Just as when I am sick and some family members feel the need to get rolling drunk and feed their denial of my illness, whatever gets em through! ;)
    Ultimately I busy making my own deals with the universe futilely so it's good they do whatever it takes to make themselves happy. But I do understand that this is only what my wishes and beliefs are. :)

    I guess the most important thing is to be respectful of the individual's wishes. So I know that you DO NOT WANT anyone praying for you, so I would not pray for you. But then I don't pray. But you see where I am going with this?
    If you were sick I would ask you if there was anything that I could do to help you and I would let you know that I love and care for you and will support you anyway that you feel would help you. If that meant me leaving you the hell alone, I'd do that too. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    ........ she was a veggie but eats buffalo meat regularly now. my mum started eating buffalo meat last year. once she could get past it being buffalo........

    :D Sorry ols, completely off thread, but I guess we're talking cooked here and not carpaccio??? ;):D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Why do people act this way?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JARF7q2S6ns


    I would say given the morbid obesity, that she has some severe hormonal problems which lead to aggression and she channels this using religion.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Bu2 wrote:
    our native American Indians did too.

    :) And I reckon you'd be absolutely correct Bu. :)

    So many things, from so many cultures that are not utulized by modern science. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    :D Sorry ols, completely off thread, but I guess we're talking cooked here and not carpaccio??? ;):D

    COOKED :eek:
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    And that's completely fair enough cate. :)
    I have had people pray for me that I would prefer didn't. But then I realized I would mostly prefered that they just buggered off and left me alone anyway. :D It wasn't the praying I objected to it was them. Least that's what I realized.
    Now if someone I love, and care for, who cares for me, feels the need to pray when I am ill I just accept that as their way of coping and I know that ultimately they love me so I am appreciative of that.
    Just as when I am sick and some family members feel the need to get rolling drunk and feed their denial of my illness, whatever gets em through! ;)
    Ultimately I busy making my own deals with the universe futilely so it's good they do whatever it takes to make themselves happy. But I do understand that this is only what my wishes and beliefs are. :)

    I guess the most important thing is to be respectful of the individual's wishes. So I know that you DO NOT WANT anyone praying for you, so I would not pray for you. But then I don't pray. But you see where I am going with this?
    If you were sick I would ask you if there was anything that I could do to help you and I would let you know that I love and care for you and will support you anyway that you feel would help you. If that meant me leaving you the hell alone, I'd do that too. :)

    i can't control people. they have the free will (hi ryan! :D ) to do as they please.all i ask is that i not be prayed over. if someone feels an overwhelming urge to pray then i can't do anything about it. in that case, i ask that i simply not be told. my natural reaction to someone who says, i prayed for you, is to tell them to fuck off.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Cosmo wrote:
    You have proclaimed the answer... water from Lourdes and parayer cures cancer.
    I'm asking, Why don't all cancer victims flock to Lourdes? and does every one that take the water get cured? If not, why not? Are they not worthy of living?

    Many people do go to Lourdes Cosmo and some of them are cured.
    Just as many people turn to dietary changes and all kinds of alternative therapies when they are ill. People who are ill are the ones in control of their treatment. They are the ones that have to make the choices. And surely whatever choice they make is the right one for them?

    I don't think if they are not cured that they are not "worthy".
    They just aren't cured. Perhaps another avenue might cure them, perhaps not. Treatment and cure are individual things. I suspect that OLS is simply pointing out that in some cases your belief can affect your outcome. Not sure this is miraculous but it does appear that sometimes belief can impact on outcome. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    COOKED :eek:


    hehe!! :D Ah ya big girl!!! ;):D

    carpaccio is delicious!! as is stinky cheese!!! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    i can't control people. they have the free will (hi ryan! :D ) to do as they please.all i ask is that i not be prayed over. if someone feels an overwhelming urge to pray then i can't do anything about it. in that case, i ask that i simply not be told. my natural reaction to someone who says, i prayed for you, is to tell them to fuck off.

    And I think that's a perfectly reasonable avenue to take cate. :)

    And a considerate, respectful person of any belief should acquiesce to your wishes and beliefs. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    And I think that's a perfectly reasonable avenue to take cate. :)

    And a considerate, respectful person of any belief should acquiesce to your wishes and beliefs. :)


    of course it's reasonable. i am a very reasonable person. perfectly so, even. ;):p LMAO!! :D:D:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    catefrances wrote:
    of course it's reasonable. i am a very reasonable person. perfectly so, even. ;):p LMAO!! :D:D:D


    i don't know. although i'd respect your wishes and not pray out loud; i don't think you'd deny me my comfort. if you feel you are not worthy of love; just say so. that is my way of showing love; in that type of situation that is.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    of course it's reasonable. i am a very reasonable person. perfectly so, even. ;):p LMAO!! :D:D:D

    Yes. You are that cate!! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    i don't know. although i'd respect your wishes and not pray out loud; i don't think you'd deny me my comfort. if you feel you are not worthy of love; just say so. that is my way of showing love; in that type of situation that is.

    hmmm......I have an overwhelming urge to be naughty here, BUT I'll be good and say nothing!!! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift

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