Buffet/Gates

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Comments

  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    It's not really a number, but I'd be more concerned about the financial welfare of people living at or below the poverty line than I would be about families who are cursed with the burden of inheriting estates worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Is it alright to break into someone's house and steal from them if they are rich then? Should we only prosecute someone who breaks into the houses of the poor?
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    zstillings wrote:
    Is it alright to break into someone's house and steal from them if they are rich then? Should we only prosecute someone who breaks into the houses of the poor?

    You're assuming that I agree with your characterization of the estate tax as "stealing". I disagree with you there.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    Yep... there's a huge difference between making poverty-level wages(federal minimum wage will actually put you below the poverty line) and being subjected to the horrors of the estate tax.

    Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Why not say this rather than hide behind some kind of "7,500 families" argument when you actually have no scale-based standard???

    You think the estate tax is justified because it goes after the wealthy and not the poor. Fair enough. Now see zstillings question.
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    You're assuming that I agree with your characterization of the estate tax as "stealing". I disagree with you there.

    I believe that unfair treatment by the government is just that. Nobody should be subjected to that so that a bloated bureaucracy can continue to grow much like nobody should be forced to live under the poverty line. The difference here is that the government forces people to relinquish a great deal of earned income whereas the government does not mandate where people have to work.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    You're assuming that I agree with your characterization of the estate tax as "stealing". I disagree with you there.

    To steal is to take something against someone's will based on force. Are you telling me that the estate tax respects the will of the estate and would not seek to extract that money with force, if necessary?
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Why not say this rather than hide behind some kind of "7,500 families" argument when you actually have no scale-based standard???

    You think the estate tax is justified because it goes after the wealthy and not the poor. Fair enough. Now see zstillings question.

    I did say it, like 3 posts ago.

    I addressed zstillings's question, too.

    It's not a question of "going after" anyone, it's simply the way a progressive tax system works.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    To steal is to take something against someone's will based on force. Are you telling me that the estate tax respects the will of the estate and would not seek to extract that money with force, if necessary?

    What do you mean by "force"? It'd be the IRS, I suppose. Is the government robbing me at gunpoint when I'm charged 12 cents sales tax on a bottle of soda?
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    I did say it, like 3 posts ago.

    Yes, after you attempted to hide it behind your "7,500 families" argument.
    It's not a question of "going after" anyone, it's simply the way a progressive tax system works.

    And if I said that theft is not a question of "going after" anyone, it's simply the way theives work, would you be ok with that?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    What do you mean by "force"? It'd be the IRS, I suppose.

    It'd be the IRS at first. Then it would be the courts. Then it would be the police.
    Is the government robbing me at gunpoint when I'm charged 12 cents sales tax on a bottle of soda?

    No. The government is robbing the person you buy the soda from at gunpoint.
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No. The government is robbing the person you buy the soda from at gunpoint.

    Yeah... but the guy who I'm buying the soda from probably likes that there are paved streets in the town his store is located in. He probably likes the streetlights in front of his store. He probably likes the city workers who keep the streets clean. He definitely appreciates the police officers who patrol the neighborhood and the city fire department, too. He probably likes the federal/state govt. offices that are near his store because those govt. employees buy coffee and soda and snacks and sandwiches there. He probably likes the interstate that runs adjacent to his town, since it has convenient exit ramps that gives travelers easy access to his town, as they tend to spend money at his store.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    Yeah... but the guy who I'm buying the soda from probably likes that there are paved streets in the town his store is located in. He probably likes the streetlights in front of his store. He probably likes the city workers who keep the streets clean. He definitely appreciates the police officers who patrol the neighborhood and the city fire department, too. He probably likes the federal/state govt. offices that are near his store because those govt. employees buy coffee and soda and snacks and sandwiches there. He probably likes the interstate that runs adjacent to his town, since it has convenient exit ramps that gives travelers easy access to his town, as they tend to spend money at his store.

    And apparently taxing corpes and taxing soda are the only way to accomplish those things?

    Tell me, if everyone likes those things so much, why are taxes forced? Surely without the law everyone would gladly pay any tax you asked for since they're getting such a great deal on concrete, streetlights and exit ramps, right?
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    And apparently taxing corpes and taxing soda are the only way to accomplish those things?

    Tell me, if everyone likes those things so much, why are taxes forced? Surely without the law everyone would gladly pay any tax you asked for since they're getting such a great deal on concrete, streetlights and exit ramps, right?


    Well, I suppose we could just privatize our national infrastructure. God knows that a profit-driven entity would never steer us wrong.

    Taxes are forced, Grover Norquist, because lots of people are either selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    Well, I suppose we could just privatize our national infrastructure. God knows that a profit-driven entity would never steer us wrong.

    Certainly a profit-driven entity could steer us wrong! That said, at least the profit-driven entity won't force me to sit in the back seat when it crashes into a tree.
    Taxes are forced, Grover Norquist, because lots of people are either selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything.

    And what about those who don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything they don't want?
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    And what about those who don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything they don't want?

    That would be the "selfish" and "stupid" group I was talking about earlier.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    That would be the "selfish" and "stupid" group I was talking about earlier.

    No it wasn't:

    "selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything."

    What of those who don't want shit from the government?
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No it wasn't:

    "selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything."

    What of those who don't want shit from the government?

    I guess I'd take a play out of the conservative handbook and recommend that they find another country that's exactly like America in every way except for the fact that there are no taxes whatsoever, then move there.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    I guess I'd take a play out of the conservative handbook and recommend that they find another country that's exactly like America in every way except for the fact that there are no taxes whatsoever, then move there.

    From what I've seen, that's more a play out of the liberal handbook.

    And if I suggested that you take your taxes to another country, how would you respond?
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    From what I've seen, that's more a play out of the liberal handbook.

    And if I suggested that you take your taxes to another country, how would you respond?

    They aren't my taxes, they're our taxes. Everybody pays taxes that go towards govt. spending that they don't necessarily agree with.

    Good luck with that "take your taxes to another country" thing.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    They aren't my taxes, they're our taxes. Everybody pays taxes that go towards govt. spending that they don't necessarily agree with.

    It's not the spending I care about, it's the sanctioned right to steal that I care about.
    Good luck with that "take your taxes to another country" thing.

    Good luck with that "take yourself to another country" thing. Hopefully someday you'll understand the put out or get out society you're advocating. I'll never understand people like you. You decry violence and advocate human rights in one statement and then support a society based on little more than coercion in the next. At least the neo-cons don't go after corpses.
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It's not the spending I care about, it's the sanctioned right to steal that I care about.

    What makes you think that a voluntary tax system would work? If everyone could legally choose to pay taxes or not pay taxes, what would happen? How exactly would that work?

    farfromglorified wrote:
    Good luck with that "take yourself to another country" thing. Hopefully someday you'll understand the put out or get out society you're advocating. I'll never understand people like you. You decry violence and advocate human rights in one statement and then support a society based on little more than coercion in the next. At least the neo-cons don't go after corpses.

    No, the conservatives of today would prefer to lower taxes and increase spending at the same time.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."

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