It's not the spending I care about, it's the sanctioned right to steal that I care about.
Good luck with that "take yourself to another country" thing. Hopefully someday you'll understand the put out or get out society you're advocating. I'll never understand people like you. You decry violence and advocate human rights in one statement and then support a society based on little more than coercion in the next. At least the neo-cons don't go after corpses.
there are laws and law enforcement in almost every country...some laws are needed, others not so much. we don't want you to move anywhere else...we are only suggesting that if you feel that living here (where we do happen to have law enforcement) is the equilivent of having a gun to your head then perhaps you might like residing elsewhere.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
What makes you think that a voluntary tax system would work?
The same thing that makes me think any system of choice would work: not everyone agrees with your definition of 'work'. Work presupposes purpose. Purpose presupposes will. Will presupposes a mind. A mind presupposes an individual.
In other words, what "works" for you is not necessarily what "works" for me or for the guy down the street. When we determine that something "works" for all of us we work together to willingly. Just as importantly, when something "works" for me but doesn't "work" for you, I don't put a gun to your head and force you to help me. We have a term for that. It's known as slavery.
No, the conservatives of today would prefer to lower taxes and increase spending at the same time.
Conservative is not the correct word for such a person. Fool is the correct word for such a person.
there are laws and law enforcement in almost every country...some laws are needed, others not so much. we don't want you to move anywhere else...we are only suggesting that if you feel that living here (where we do happen to have law enforcement) is the equilivent of having a gun to your head then perhaps you might like residing elsewhere.
It's not a death tax or an inheritance tax because not everyone who dies and not everyone who inherits something gets taxed. It's an estate tax.
When a corporation makes a profit, i.e. earns money, it's taxed. When that corporation pays it's employee's, the employee's pay is taxed - even though it's the "same money." When a wealth individual earns money, it's taxed (provided they don't know how to avoid them) - when that person pays his or her heirs in inheritance, it gets taxed.
And if you're preparing estate tax returns where the tax is in excess of $100 million, congratulations. A person would have to inherit approximately $300 million to have to pay that much. You must be making a killing in fees.
A employee's wages are not taxed as you say above. A corporation is taxed on its taxable income, which put simply is gross receipts minus deductions (payroll). So, it's not the "same money." Now if we are talking dividends, then yes, you'd be right.
I'm not bragging that I've prepared high value estate tax returns if that is what you are implying. It's not like it is my money. And I'm not the partner, so the fees don't come to me, unfortunately.
Conservatives want to lower the tax burden and government spending/ size and scope
That's true, but for some reason, the anti-tax crowd aligns itself with the GOP. I'm thinking mostly of the Grover Norquist-Ralph Reed-Tom DeLay Triumverate of Doom.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
The same thing that makes me think any system of choice would work: not everyone agrees with your definition of 'work'. Work presupposes purpose. Purpose presupposes will. Will presupposes a mind. A mind presupposes an individual.
In other words, what "works" for you is not necessarily what "works" for me or for the guy down the street. When we determine that something "works" for all of us we work together to willingly. Just as importantly, when something "works" for me but doesn't "work" for you, I don't put a gun to your head and force you to help me. We have a term for that. It's known as slavery.
You still didn't answer the question, "How would a voluntary tax system work"?
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
The same thing that makes me think any system of choice would work: not everyone agrees with your definition of 'work'. Work presupposes purpose. Purpose presupposes will. Will presupposes a mind. A mind presupposes an individual.
In other words, what "works" for you is not necessarily what "works" for me or for the guy down the street. When we determine that something "works" for all of us we work together to willingly. Just as importantly, when something "works" for me but doesn't "work" for you, I don't put a gun to your head and force you to help me. We have a term for that. It's known as slavery.
If you have to debate the meaning of "work," then your plan may not be the best thing. That's just me. Big picture. It is evident by "work" he means the plan would succeed. Now if you have to debate that, then you are pretty much conceding that some folks won't think it will succeed, meaning that it probably hasn't. Honestly I haven't thought about your plan or know what it even is, I just saw this post and the fact that you had to write some existential definition for what work is, made me a little sick to my stomach.
Edit: Debating the meaning of the word is an obvious way of not answering a question.
Edit: Debating the meaning of the word is an obvious way of not answering a question.
I'm not debating the meaning of the word. I'm debating the standards by which we use it.
My system would work for me. If it doesn't work for you, then don't participate. Pay your taxes. I don't care.
You guys completely misunderstand me if you even think of asking a question, "how will it work?" What you're asking me is, "how will you enforce it" or "how will you facilitate it"....those are questions for people advocating a universal method for living. I'm denying your right to prescribe a universal method for living. You have the right to prescribe your own method of living.
You still didn't answer the question, "How would a voluntary tax system work"?
Of course I did. It will work based on the volunteer's standard of "work", meaning their purpose, their will. If your purpose and will involve giving to the state, do it. Mine does not.
Of course I did. It will work based on the volunteer's standard of "work", meaning their purpose, their will. If your purpose and will involve giving to the state, do it. Mine does not.
Living requires caring....caring for one's life and caring for the lives of those who support you. What you want is for me to pretend to care about that which gives me no reason to care and would not return my care.
if caring about the quality of life of those less fortunate than me is somehow bad then go ahead and paint me out as the bad guy with a gun.
It doesn't take a gun to care for the less fortunate. It takes the opposite of a gun: your mind.
Of course I did. It will work based on the volunteer's standard of "work", meaning their purpose, their will. If your purpose and will involve giving to the state, do it. Mine does not.
Jesus, this is exasperating.
How do you propose to live a country, benefitting from the services and protections that said country provides, and then say that you feel no obligation to pay the taxes that contribute to the country's infrastructure?
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
How do you propose to live a country, benefitting from the services and protections that said country provides, and then say that you feel no obligation to pay the taxes that contribute to the country's infrastructure?
I don't propose to benefit from the services and protections that said country provides. I propose to benefit from the services and protections those whom I willingly pay provide and the services and protections I provide myself.
I don't want your "services" and "protections" any more than I want a $100,000 golf cart.
I don't propose to benefit from the services and protections that said country provides. I propose to benefit from the services and protections those whom I willingly pay provide and the services and protections I provide myself.
I don't want your "services" and "protections" any more than I want a $100,000 golf cart.
Are you going to pay someone to build roads for you to drive on? Are you going to hire your own personal police force and fire department?
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Living requires caring....caring for one's life and caring for the lives of those who support you. What you want is for me to pretend to care about that which gives me no reason to care and would not return my care.
Caring for one another makes a better world. That is the reason you should care. I care about people who are suffering especially and I ask for no caring in return.
It doesn't take a gun to care for the less fortunate. It takes the opposite of a gun: your mind.
Since those in control of the world's resources seem to careless, there needs to be laws protecting those who are less fortunate. Your first statement is the exact reason why these laws are needed. The whole 'why should I care' stance leaves good people out in the cold.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Caring for one another makes a better world. That is the reason you should care. I care about people who are suffering especially and I ask for no caring in return.
I care about more people than I can count. Family, friends, employees, customers, partners, people throughout the world without whom I'd never be able to have the comforts I have today. And I reward those people for the things they do for me. I give them time, effort, money, love....whatever they value that I can provide.
But how does "caring for one another" make this a better world? Can someone eat my care? Can someone live in my care? Can my care save someone's life? Of course not. Only my work or the work of others can feed you. Only my work or the work of others can build your house. Only my work or the work of others can save your life.
You don't want my care. You want my money. You don't want my love. You want my labor. You want those things without providing a value to me. That isn't care -- that is guilt. You want me to be guilty. You want me to feel that I've committed a crime -- the crime of living by my values, not yours. It is only through guilt and force that you can extract what you want and the system you're advocating demonstrates that fact. You tell me to "give back" as if I've stolen something, ignoring the value I've already given to those who have helped me. And if that doesn't work you'll send your goon squads as if I've taken aggressive action at you based on nothing more than my indifference.
Since those in control of the world's resources seem to careless, there needs to be laws protecting those who aren't as fortunate. Your first statemtn is the exact reason why these laws are needed. The whole 'why should I care' stance leaves good people out in the cold.
The only stance that leaves good people out in the cold is the stance of the man standing in the cold or the actions of the men who push them out into it. If you can convict me of pushing one man into the cold, I'll pay your ransom. Otherwise, you can take your Original Sin back to the church where it belongs. My birth was not a crime.
Comments
there are laws and law enforcement in almost every country...some laws are needed, others not so much. we don't want you to move anywhere else...we are only suggesting that if you feel that living here (where we do happen to have law enforcement) is the equilivent of having a gun to your head then perhaps you might like residing elsewhere.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Republicans por favor. Not Conservatives.
Conservatives want to lower the tax burden and government spending/ size and scope
The same thing that makes me think any system of choice would work: not everyone agrees with your definition of 'work'. Work presupposes purpose. Purpose presupposes will. Will presupposes a mind. A mind presupposes an individual.
In other words, what "works" for you is not necessarily what "works" for me or for the guy down the street. When we determine that something "works" for all of us we work together to willingly. Just as importantly, when something "works" for me but doesn't "work" for you, I don't put a gun to your head and force you to help me. We have a term for that. It's known as slavery.
Conservative is not the correct word for such a person. Fool is the correct word for such a person.
I might like you to remove the gun.
A employee's wages are not taxed as you say above. A corporation is taxed on its taxable income, which put simply is gross receipts minus deductions (payroll). So, it's not the "same money." Now if we are talking dividends, then yes, you'd be right.
I'm not bragging that I've prepared high value estate tax returns if that is what you are implying. It's not like it is my money. And I'm not the partner, so the fees don't come to me, unfortunately.
That's true, but for some reason, the anti-tax crowd aligns itself with the GOP. I'm thinking mostly of the Grover Norquist-Ralph Reed-Tom DeLay Triumverate of Doom.
I don't own a gun. Maybe if enough people thought there was a gun to their head, it would be enough to have it removed.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Not really. I've voted for very few Republicans.
What do you think you're buying with your taxes?
What do you think I'm doing here?
You still didn't answer the question, "How would a voluntary tax system work"?
some good stuff, some shit I don't want to support but that has to do with policy not the tax system itself.
Have you convinced anyone? found any support yet? I haven't seen too many agree with your 'gun to the head' reference but you do get an A+ for effort.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If you have to debate the meaning of "work," then your plan may not be the best thing. That's just me. Big picture. It is evident by "work" he means the plan would succeed. Now if you have to debate that, then you are pretty much conceding that some folks won't think it will succeed, meaning that it probably hasn't. Honestly I haven't thought about your plan or know what it even is, I just saw this post and the fact that you had to write some existential definition for what work is, made me a little sick to my stomach.
Edit: Debating the meaning of the word is an obvious way of not answering a question.
"Love it or leave it."
Oh yeah, just hearing that phrase makes me think "hippie."
When I think of "hippie", I think of "live and let live".
When I think of liberal, I think of "live and force serve".
When I think of republican, I think of "live and die".
When I think of conservative, I think of "live".
I'm not debating the meaning of the word. I'm debating the standards by which we use it.
My system would work for me. If it doesn't work for you, then don't participate. Pay your taxes. I don't care.
You guys completely misunderstand me if you even think of asking a question, "how will it work?" What you're asking me is, "how will you enforce it" or "how will you facilitate it"....those are questions for people advocating a universal method for living. I'm denying your right to prescribe a universal method for living. You have the right to prescribe your own method of living.
Of course I did. It will work based on the volunteer's standard of "work", meaning their purpose, their will. If your purpose and will involve giving to the state, do it. Mine does not.
Do you really believe this is a good idea?
Why else would I advocate it?
You are putting your faith in people, which is only a little better than putting it in government.
What I'm doing making faith irrelevant, which is much better than putting faith in anything.
you forgot the 'don't care' part
live and don't care
if caring about the quality of life of those less fortunate than me is somehow bad then go ahead and paint me out as the bad guy with a gun.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Living requires caring....caring for one's life and caring for the lives of those who support you. What you want is for me to pretend to care about that which gives me no reason to care and would not return my care.
It doesn't take a gun to care for the less fortunate. It takes the opposite of a gun: your mind.
Jesus, this is exasperating.
How do you propose to live a country, benefitting from the services and protections that said country provides, and then say that you feel no obligation to pay the taxes that contribute to the country's infrastructure?
I don't propose to benefit from the services and protections that said country provides. I propose to benefit from the services and protections those whom I willingly pay provide and the services and protections I provide myself.
I don't want your "services" and "protections" any more than I want a $100,000 golf cart.
Are you going to pay someone to build roads for you to drive on? Are you going to hire your own personal police force and fire department?
Most certainly.
No.
Are you going to pay someone to build roads for you to drive on? Are you going to hire your own personal police force and fire department?
Or are you going to force someone to pay for those things for you?
Caring for one another makes a better world. That is the reason you should care. I care about people who are suffering especially and I ask for no caring in return.
Since those in control of the world's resources seem to careless, there needs to be laws protecting those who are less fortunate. Your first statement is the exact reason why these laws are needed. The whole 'why should I care' stance leaves good people out in the cold.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
all this comes along with living here and living with the laws of this land.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I care about more people than I can count. Family, friends, employees, customers, partners, people throughout the world without whom I'd never be able to have the comforts I have today. And I reward those people for the things they do for me. I give them time, effort, money, love....whatever they value that I can provide.
But how does "caring for one another" make this a better world? Can someone eat my care? Can someone live in my care? Can my care save someone's life? Of course not. Only my work or the work of others can feed you. Only my work or the work of others can build your house. Only my work or the work of others can save your life.
You don't want my care. You want my money. You don't want my love. You want my labor. You want those things without providing a value to me. That isn't care -- that is guilt. You want me to be guilty. You want me to feel that I've committed a crime -- the crime of living by my values, not yours. It is only through guilt and force that you can extract what you want and the system you're advocating demonstrates that fact. You tell me to "give back" as if I've stolen something, ignoring the value I've already given to those who have helped me. And if that doesn't work you'll send your goon squads as if I've taken aggressive action at you based on nothing more than my indifference.
The only stance that leaves good people out in the cold is the stance of the man standing in the cold or the actions of the men who push them out into it. If you can convict me of pushing one man into the cold, I'll pay your ransom. Otherwise, you can take your Original Sin back to the church where it belongs. My birth was not a crime.