Buffet/Gates

24

Comments

  • And do you hold Democrats to that standard when they harp on issues that affect small minorities?

    Issues such as... ?
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Issues such as... ?

    The minimum wage, for instance.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    RainDog wrote:
    Me, I can think of a few billion reasons to have it, but hey, you know?

    I'm still curious as to how a society can function without taxes. We can tax the poor instead of the rich, sure. Or we can tax the rich instead of the poor. We can tax both at a progressive rate (kinda like here). Or we could implement some sort of "fair tax" or "sales tax" in lieu of an income tax (which is really shifting the tax burden to the middle class and poor, but we could do it). But what we can't do is not have taxes. Very few Bill Gateses in the world, you see - in that there are few that ever reach his level (actually never happened before) and far far fewer are as charitable.

    How is the Fair Tax shifting the Tax burden to the middle class and poor?

    Everyone recieves thier entire paycheck and decides when and where to pay taxes and the tax is embedded so you can't cheat. The prebate takes care of any form of regression. Poor people still don't pay taxes in fact they are even better off than they are now because prices aren't higher than they are now. They actually have more money in thier pockets, now what they need is a mentor to teach them how to invest and or save safely and gradually and break that poverty cycle. The fair tax is actually a solution that would allow even encourage people to save and invest money and it gives taxpayers a lot more control over how they choose to spend thier tax burden. Not to mention taxing visitors and criminals when they buy goods as well. I could go on and on or you could just read the book or check out www. fairtax.org.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • And while we're on the subject of Bill Gates, an apology from the oft-revered Chomsky is way past due. Mr. Chomsky has said some ridiculous, borderline slanderous things about Gates, perhaps Mr. Chomsky should muster the courage to admit he was wrong.
    I'm not a hate monger.
    I don't hate anyone.
    I'm more of a hate...stylist.
  • BinFrogBinFrog MAPosts: 7,290
    And while we're on the subject of Bill Gates, an apology from the oft-revered Chomsky is way past due. Mr. Chomsky has said some ridiculous, borderline slanderous things about Gates, perhaps Mr. Chomsky should muster the courage to admit he was wrong.


    Or at the time he was right and now Bill Gates has changed his ways and thus a statement that was previously true no longer holds any merit. Where's the necessary apology there? Oh right, there is none.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
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  • The minimum wage, for instance.

    The minimum wage affects a lot more than 7500 families.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    The minimum wage affects a lot more than 7500 families.

    What is the cut-off number for when people should start caring?
  • zstillings wrote:
    What is the cut-off number for when people should start caring?

    It's not really a number, but I'd be more concerned about the financial welfare of people living at or below the poverty line than I would be about families who are cursed with the burden of inheriting estates worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • The minimum wage affects a lot more than 7500 families.

    0.5% of the people who die pay the estate tax.

    0.2% of the people who work make exactly the minimum wage.

    0.7% of the people who work make exactly the minimum wage or less than the minimum wage.

    Yep...that's a huge difference.
  • 0.5% of the people who die pay the estate tax.

    0.2% of the people who work make exactly the minimum wage.

    0.7% of the people who work make exactly the minimum wage or less than the minimum wage.

    Yep...that's a huge difference.

    Yep... there's a huge difference between making poverty-level wages(federal minimum wage will actually put you below the poverty line) and being subjected to the horrors of the estate tax.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    It's not really a number, but I'd be more concerned about the financial welfare of people living at or below the poverty line than I would be about families who are cursed with the burden of inheriting estates worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Is it alright to break into someone's house and steal from them if they are rich then? Should we only prosecute someone who breaks into the houses of the poor?
  • zstillings wrote:
    Is it alright to break into someone's house and steal from them if they are rich then? Should we only prosecute someone who breaks into the houses of the poor?

    You're assuming that I agree with your characterization of the estate tax as "stealing". I disagree with you there.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Yep... there's a huge difference between making poverty-level wages(federal minimum wage will actually put you below the poverty line) and being subjected to the horrors of the estate tax.

    Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Why not say this rather than hide behind some kind of "7,500 families" argument when you actually have no scale-based standard???

    You think the estate tax is justified because it goes after the wealthy and not the poor. Fair enough. Now see zstillings question.
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    You're assuming that I agree with your characterization of the estate tax as "stealing". I disagree with you there.

    I believe that unfair treatment by the government is just that. Nobody should be subjected to that so that a bloated bureaucracy can continue to grow much like nobody should be forced to live under the poverty line. The difference here is that the government forces people to relinquish a great deal of earned income whereas the government does not mandate where people have to work.
  • You're assuming that I agree with your characterization of the estate tax as "stealing". I disagree with you there.

    To steal is to take something against someone's will based on force. Are you telling me that the estate tax respects the will of the estate and would not seek to extract that money with force, if necessary?
  • Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Why not say this rather than hide behind some kind of "7,500 families" argument when you actually have no scale-based standard???

    You think the estate tax is justified because it goes after the wealthy and not the poor. Fair enough. Now see zstillings question.

    I did say it, like 3 posts ago.

    I addressed zstillings's question, too.

    It's not a question of "going after" anyone, it's simply the way a progressive tax system works.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • To steal is to take something against someone's will based on force. Are you telling me that the estate tax respects the will of the estate and would not seek to extract that money with force, if necessary?

    What do you mean by "force"? It'd be the IRS, I suppose. Is the government robbing me at gunpoint when I'm charged 12 cents sales tax on a bottle of soda?
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • I did say it, like 3 posts ago.

    Yes, after you attempted to hide it behind your "7,500 families" argument.
    It's not a question of "going after" anyone, it's simply the way a progressive tax system works.

    And if I said that theft is not a question of "going after" anyone, it's simply the way theives work, would you be ok with that?
  • What do you mean by "force"? It'd be the IRS, I suppose.

    It'd be the IRS at first. Then it would be the courts. Then it would be the police.
    Is the government robbing me at gunpoint when I'm charged 12 cents sales tax on a bottle of soda?

    No. The government is robbing the person you buy the soda from at gunpoint.
  • No. The government is robbing the person you buy the soda from at gunpoint.

    Yeah... but the guy who I'm buying the soda from probably likes that there are paved streets in the town his store is located in. He probably likes the streetlights in front of his store. He probably likes the city workers who keep the streets clean. He definitely appreciates the police officers who patrol the neighborhood and the city fire department, too. He probably likes the federal/state govt. offices that are near his store because those govt. employees buy coffee and soda and snacks and sandwiches there. He probably likes the interstate that runs adjacent to his town, since it has convenient exit ramps that gives travelers easy access to his town, as they tend to spend money at his store.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Yeah... but the guy who I'm buying the soda from probably likes that there are paved streets in the town his store is located in. He probably likes the streetlights in front of his store. He probably likes the city workers who keep the streets clean. He definitely appreciates the police officers who patrol the neighborhood and the city fire department, too. He probably likes the federal/state govt. offices that are near his store because those govt. employees buy coffee and soda and snacks and sandwiches there. He probably likes the interstate that runs adjacent to his town, since it has convenient exit ramps that gives travelers easy access to his town, as they tend to spend money at his store.

    And apparently taxing corpes and taxing soda are the only way to accomplish those things?

    Tell me, if everyone likes those things so much, why are taxes forced? Surely without the law everyone would gladly pay any tax you asked for since they're getting such a great deal on concrete, streetlights and exit ramps, right?
  • And apparently taxing corpes and taxing soda are the only way to accomplish those things?

    Tell me, if everyone likes those things so much, why are taxes forced? Surely without the law everyone would gladly pay any tax you asked for since they're getting such a great deal on concrete, streetlights and exit ramps, right?


    Well, I suppose we could just privatize our national infrastructure. God knows that a profit-driven entity would never steer us wrong.

    Taxes are forced, Grover Norquist, because lots of people are either selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Well, I suppose we could just privatize our national infrastructure. God knows that a profit-driven entity would never steer us wrong.

    Certainly a profit-driven entity could steer us wrong! That said, at least the profit-driven entity won't force me to sit in the back seat when it crashes into a tree.
    Taxes are forced, Grover Norquist, because lots of people are either selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything.

    And what about those who don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything they don't want?
  • And what about those who don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything they don't want?

    That would be the "selfish" and "stupid" group I was talking about earlier.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • That would be the "selfish" and "stupid" group I was talking about earlier.

    No it wasn't:

    "selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything."

    What of those who don't want shit from the government?
  • No it wasn't:

    "selfish or just plain stupid and want this and that and the other from the government, but don't want to pay a dime of their own money towards anything."

    What of those who don't want shit from the government?

    I guess I'd take a play out of the conservative handbook and recommend that they find another country that's exactly like America in every way except for the fact that there are no taxes whatsoever, then move there.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • I guess I'd take a play out of the conservative handbook and recommend that they find another country that's exactly like America in every way except for the fact that there are no taxes whatsoever, then move there.

    From what I've seen, that's more a play out of the liberal handbook.

    And if I suggested that you take your taxes to another country, how would you respond?
  • From what I've seen, that's more a play out of the liberal handbook.

    And if I suggested that you take your taxes to another country, how would you respond?

    They aren't my taxes, they're our taxes. Everybody pays taxes that go towards govt. spending that they don't necessarily agree with.

    Good luck with that "take your taxes to another country" thing.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • They aren't my taxes, they're our taxes. Everybody pays taxes that go towards govt. spending that they don't necessarily agree with.

    It's not the spending I care about, it's the sanctioned right to steal that I care about.
    Good luck with that "take your taxes to another country" thing.

    Good luck with that "take yourself to another country" thing. Hopefully someday you'll understand the put out or get out society you're advocating. I'll never understand people like you. You decry violence and advocate human rights in one statement and then support a society based on little more than coercion in the next. At least the neo-cons don't go after corpses.
  • It's not the spending I care about, it's the sanctioned right to steal that I care about.

    What makes you think that a voluntary tax system would work? If everyone could legally choose to pay taxes or not pay taxes, what would happen? How exactly would that work?

    Good luck with that "take yourself to another country" thing. Hopefully someday you'll understand the put out or get out society you're advocating. I'll never understand people like you. You decry violence and advocate human rights in one statement and then support a society based on little more than coercion in the next. At least the neo-cons don't go after corpses.

    No, the conservatives of today would prefer to lower taxes and increase spending at the same time.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
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