Man found NOT-GUILTY (acquitted) on FAILURE TO FILE INCOME TAX RETURN ! ! !

ArmsinaV · July 2007

Kann wrote:

So basically we are more free than say, indian tribes in america (before the europeans came), because we have money?
And it still doesn't change the fact that comparing your paying taxes with being enslaved is a little sick.

Native Americans? What about their societies made them so free?

OutOfBreath · July 2007

CorporateWhore wrote:

The government promises you that your tax dollars will go toward the roads or other useful projects and then it wastes it on people who could probably work if you lit a match under their asses.

Then I can comfort you with saying that almost all research into the subject shows that people want to work if they get the opportunity, and infact unemployed score higher on work-ethic scales than employed. Sure there are a some freeloaders, but not as many as you'd think. Most people don't want to be parasites. So the lazy-ass-who-sits-on-his-ass-and-collects-a-check-laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bank is by and large a myth that is not corroborated by data. I know, cause I wrote my master's degree on unemployed specifically, and welfare states and ordering in general.

Now, that you spend that money to pay off outrageous med costs by the large med-companies, now that's something to be pissed about. And the fact that you spend 4 times as much money per capita on health (private and public combined) than any other industrial nation, and still you have an outrageous number of uninsured people. That's the outrage here. You spend a lot but dont really get any value for your money. Especially not when compared to just about anyone else.

Peace
Dan

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

OutOfBreath wrote:

Then I can comfort you with saying that almost all research into the subject shows that people want to work if they get the opportunity, and infact unemployed score higher on work-ethic scales than employed. Sure there are a some freeloaders, but not as many as you'd think. Most people don't want to be parasites. So the lazy-ass-who-sits-on-his-ass-and-collects-a-check-laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bank is by and large a myth that is not corroborated by data. I know, cause I wrote my master's degree on unemployed specifically, and welfare states and ordering in general.

Now, that you spend that money to pay off outrageous med costs by the large med-companies, now that's something to be pissed about. And the fact that you spend 4 times as much money per capita on health (private and public combined) than any other industrial nation, and still you have an outrageous number of uninsured people. That's the outrage here. You spend a lot but dont really get any value for your money. Especially not when compared to just about anyone else.

Peace
Dan

Thank you, Dan. Your posts are always a welcome sight.

DriftingByTheStorm · July 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Thank you, Dan. Your posts are always a welcome sight.

Yes,
he seems pretty well informed.

I just think it's sad that the REAL truth is that people like Dan would probably be OUTRAGED if they HAD ANY TIME to look in to the issues,

but as it is,
we have all these brilliant (relatively) people around whom keep saying things like

OutOfBreath wrote:

OK, that's 1 hour. I dont have time for that.

Man ... if the good people of this country (and the world) don't even have ONE LOUSY HOUR of time to spare to LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW OUR WORLD IS RUN, then we are headed off the shit creek waterfall and on to the rocks quicker than you can grease a ducks ass.

:(

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Yes,
he seems pretty well informed.

I just think it's sad that the REAL truth is that people like Dan would probably be OUTRAGED if they HAD ANY TIME to look in to the issues,

but as it is,
we have all these brilliant (relatively) people around whom keep saying things like

Man ... if the good people of this country (and the world) don't even have ONE LOUSY HOUR of time to spare to LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW OUR WORLD IS RUN, then we are headed off the shit creek waterfall and on to the rocks quicker than you can grease a ducks ass.

:(

I don't have an hour to hear from the chicken littles about how the sky is falling down. I used to consume myself with that stuff and I'm not gonna do it anymore. There are serious problems and we need to work together to fix them..yes, I agree. But how you choose to go about it and view this world plays a big part. I'm choosing a more optimistic approach to humanity. Protecting borders which only divide us anyways and worrying about tax money just aren't things I'm gonna overly concern myself with.

DriftingByTheStorm · July 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I don't have an hour to hear from the chicken littles about how the sky is falling down. I used to consume myself with that stuff and I'm not gonna do it anymore. There are serious problems and we need to work together to fix them..yes, I agree. But how you choose to go about it and view this world plays a big part. I'm choosing a more optimistic approach to humanity. Protecting borders which only divide us anyways and worrying about tax money just aren't things I'm gonna overly concern myself with.

I'm talking about a system (the federal reserve system) that is based on principals (unbacked paper money) that our forefathers (adams, franklin, jefferson, AND the man who CREATED the Fedearl Reserve through presidential authority -- wilson) recognized as being corrupt and flawed, and that they therefore made expressely UNCONSTITUTIONAL, but which we today use ... unwitting to nearly all americans ...

The goddamn constitution states, plain as day:
"No state shall . . . coin money, . . . or make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts . . ." (Article I, section 10)

so, keep it up, and ignore the BIG issues, and the sky WILL fall ... because inflation is REAL as hell, it is rampant, and it is caused by unbacked money which is PRINTED AT WILL and LOANED TO THE GOVERNMENT ... AT INTEREST ... AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PEOPLE!

It's a sham, it's unconstitutional, and no one wants to talk about it...
except maybe Ron Paul ... who the establishment makes EVERY effort to marginalize.

So what issues are at the forefront of YOUR consciousness?
Because to me that is ONE OF THE BIGGEST.

I'll be honest, i never understood shit about The Gold Standard or it's importance ... in fact, beyond ignorance, i was actually philosophicaly irritated that people would place intrinsic value in gold or silver for no other reason other that it was a. scarce and b. shiny ... but after watching some of these movies (Fiat Empire, in particular explains it PLAIN AS DAY) I am not only aware of the scam that has duped the last hundred years of our great nation, but i am OUTRAGED and trying to proactively spread the word ... and i have gotten involved in the campaign process because of it.

So yeah ... there are plent of "issues" to be concerned about, but to me the UNCONSTITUTIONAL and UNSUSTAINABLE PRINT OF PAPER MONEY is one of the ULTIMATE ISSUES!

???
Again,
what are YOUR big issues?

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I'm talking about a system (the federal reserve system) that is based on principals (unbacked paper money) that our forefathers (adams, franklin, jefferson, and wilson) recognized as being corrupt and flawed, and that they therefore made expressely UNCONSTITUTIONAL, but which we today use ... unwitting nearly all americans ...

so, keep it up, and ignore the BIG issues, and the sky WILL fall ... because inflation is REAL as hell, it is rampant, and it is caused by unbacked money which is PRINTED AT WILL and LOANED TO THE GOVERNMENT ... AT INTEREST ... AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PEOPLE!

It's a sham, it's unconstitutional, and no one wants to talk about it...
except maybe Ron Paul ... who the establishment makes EVERY effort to marginalize.

So what issues are at the forefront of YOUR consciousness?
Because to me that is ONE OF THE BIGGEST.

I'll be honest, i never understood shit about The Gold Standard or it's importance ... in fact, beyond ignorance, i was actually philosophicaly irritated that people would place intrinsic value in gold or silver for no other reason other that it was a. scarce and b. shiny ... but after watching some of these movies (Fiat Empire, in particular explains it PLAIN AS DAY) I am not only aware of the scam that has duped the last hundred years of our great nation, but i am OUTRAGED and trying to proactively spread the word ... and i have gotten involved in the campaign process because of it.

So yeah ... there are plent of "issues" to be concerned about, but to me the UNCONSTITUTIONAL and UNSUSTAINABLE PRINT OF PAPER MONEY is one of the ULTIMATE ISSUES!

???
Again,
what are YOUR big issues?

Hey, I posted on this before. I agree it's a huge problem. But what are you going to do about it? Seriously? What's the plan here?

DriftingByTheStorm · July 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Hey, I posted on this before. I agree it's a huge problem. But what are you going to do about it? Seriously? What's the plan here?

Right now my plan is
i have signed up to volunteer for Ron Paul.
I have responded to his campaign mailer to be a participant in the Call Iowa program, in order to raise awareness of his campaign -- and his sincere desire to disempower the Federal Reserve -- by calling would-be voters in Iowa to hopefully get them out to not only the real voting booths, but to next months STRAW POLL in iowa, in order to demonstrate support for a REAL candidate who supports the PEOPLE ... FOR REAL ...

That is my CURRENT plan ... i never thought politics would solve ANYTHING, but this fellow is real, and he IS NOT perfect, but he has my vote, for SURE.

What else CAN we do, other than petition our elected officials, vote and make others aware of the issues?

Most all REAL power has been systematicaly stripped from the people ...
about the only thing left to do is inform the people of this before we are all TRULY enslaved with cards & chips and the inability to protest a tyrannical government that has fully overstepped every check & balance our forefathers placed on it.

I have been networking like crazy over the past two months.
Digging for contacts on message boards and myspace, and on meetup.com ... educating myself by reading, watching "conspiracy" videos on subjects like the federal reserve system, income tax, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Rockefellers, etc ... if the opportunity arises for me to demonstrate\protest, i sure as hell will ... etc ...

again, what else CAN we even do?

The congress and senate could care less, because the Fed. Reserve LENDS THEM MONEY at will ... why would they want to give up "free" money !?!

ps - i am also about to start printing up yard signs and bumper stickers and placing them EVERYWHERE I legaly have a right to, in order to direct people's attention to movies like Fiat Empire which are NOT sensationalistic, but only attempt to inform real americans of the REAL truth behind our government's insolvent monitary policy -- something i now believe to truly be one of the underlying constructs that will doom our nation if we disregard it and do not change course SOON!

If another sham politican gets elected, i fear we may be too late!

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Right now my plan is
i have signed up to volunteer for Ron Paul.
I have responded to his campaign mailer to be a participant in the Call Iowa program, in order to raise awareness of his campaign -- and his sincere desire to disempower the Federal Reserve -- by calling would-be voters in Iowa to hopefully get them out to not only the real voting booths, but to next months STRAW POLL in iowa, in order to demonstrate support for a REAL candidate who supports the PEOPLE ... FOR REAL ...

That is my CURRENT plan ... i never thought politics would solve ANYTHING, but this fellow is real, and he IS NOT perfect, but he has my vote, for SURE.

What else CAN we do, other than petition our elected officials, vote and make others aware of the issues?

Most all REAL power has been systematicaly stripped from the people ...
about the only thing left to do is inform the people of this before we are all TRULY enslaved with cards & chips and the inability to protest a tyrannical government that has fully overstepped every check & balance our forefathers placed on it.

I have been networking like crazy over the past two months.
Digging for contacts on message boards and myspace, and on meetup.com ... educating myself by reading, watching "conspiracy" videos on subjects like the federal reserve system, income tax, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Rockefellers, etc ... if the opportunity arises for me to demonstrate\protest, i sure as hell will ... etc ...

again, what else CAN we even do?

The congress and senate could care less, because the Fed. Reserve LENDS THEM MONEY at will ... why would they want to give up "free" money !?!

ps - i am also about to start printing up yard signs and bumper stickers and placing them EVERYWHERE I legaly have a right to, in order to direct people's attention to movies like Fiat Empire which are NOT sensationalistic, but only attempt to inform real americans of the REAL truth behind our government's insolvent monitary policy -- something i now believe to truly be one of the underlying constructs that will doom our nation if we disregard it and do not change course SOON!

If another sham politican gets elected, i fear we may be too late!

I mostly have a problem with letting this kinda stuff consume you. It seems very unhealthy to me....but again that just my take.

I have a few problems with Ron Paul and the whole libertarian mindset. Here's my thoughts on him:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4601757&postcount=27

I'm a Kucinich supporter. I believe in focusing on the good in man and building upon it.

DriftingByTheStorm · July 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I mostly have a problem with letting this kinda stuff consume you. It seems very unhealthy to me....but again that just my take.

I have a few problems with Ron Paul and the whole libertarian mindset. Here's my thoughts on him:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4601757&postcount=27

I'm a Kucinich supporter. I believe in focusing on the good in man and building upon it.

Yes i read your original post on RP. I view you as one of few good sources of opinon on these boards. That being said, i willingly admit that Ron Paul is not the PERFECT presidential candidate ...

but lets compromise:
http://kucinich.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=61247

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Yes i read your original post on RP. I view you as one of few good sources of opinon on these boards. That being said, i willingly admit that Ron Paul is not the PERFECT presidential candidate ...

but lets compromise:
http://kucinich.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=61247

My main thing here is the approach and the methods some use to get their point across. I view Dennis' optimist way of approaching problems and viewing the world as a much better way to get people to open up to your ideas and not simply cause people to tune you out. Dennis takes on these problems and still manages to surround himself with positive energy. He seems hopeful and a happy person...not full of contempt and anger. I'm not saying this is true of Paul but rather many of his followers.

onelongsong · July 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

This is from JUNE fucking 13th PEOPLE:

SPREAD THE FUCKING WORD ! ! !
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007707130321

READ IT GODDAMNIT.
The ONLY official news source reporting this ... THANK GOD someone did ! ! !

Local attorney acquitted on federal income tax charges
Cryer stopped filing income taxes more than 10 years ago
July 13, 2007
By Loresha Wilson
ljwilson@gannett.com

A Shreveport attorney who has challenged the government for years on the legality of filing federal income taxes has been acquitted on charges he failed to file returns.

A federal jury unanimously found Tommy Cryer not guilty this week on two misdemeanor counts of failure to file.

And according to Cryer, the prosecution dismissed two felony charges of tax evasion prior to trial.

Attempts by The Times on Thursday to reach U.S. Attorney Donald Washington or Bill Flanagan, first assistant U.S. attorney, were not successful. Calls made to the two were not immediately returned.

"The court could not find a law that makes me liable or makes my revenues taxable," Cryer said. "The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot impose an income tax on anything but the profits and gains. When you work for someone you give your service and labor in exchange for money, so everything you make is not profit or gain. You put something into it."

Cryer was indicted last year on two counts of tax evasion. The indictment alleged he evaded payment of $73,000 in income tax to the Internal Revenue Service during 2000 and 2001.

Cryer created a trust listing himself as the trustee, and received payments of dividends, interest and stock income to that trust, according to the indictment. He also was accused of concealing his receipt of the sources of income from the IRS by failing to file a tax return on behalf of that trust.

"I determined that my personal earnings were not 100 percent profits, some were income," Cryer said. "I refuse to file, I refuse to pay unless they can show me I have a lawful reason to pay."

"What I earned was my own personal labor. I am giving something in exchange. I'm giving my property and I don't belong to anyone else."

Cryer says he stopped filing returns more than 10 years ago after he investigated claims that income tax was a sham. He contends the law doesn't actually tax personal earning.

prior to this being posted; i told every one of you about this loophole. cryer really needs to put his trust offshore but he's got the idea. being offshore allows him to remove pre-tax money without government involvement. it's also better to have someone else as trustee so the government can't say YOU are in control of the money.
thanks for backing me up drifting. people here think i talk just to hear myself.

nucmed24 · July 2007

These people weren't as lucky to be found not guilty, and have charges dropped. Found this on NPR.org.

New Hampshire Couple in Showdown Over Taxes
by Josh Rogers

Morning Edition, July 17, 2007 · New Hampshire couple Ed and Elaine Brown has since April holed up in their hilltop home in defiance of a federal court that sentenced them to a five-year prison term for income tax evasion. The Browns insist the IRS lacks the authority to require such a levy and say they won't be taken alive.

onelongsong · July 2007

nucmed24 wrote:

These people weren't as lucky to be found not guilty, and have charges dropped. Found this on NPR.org.

New Hampshire Couple in Showdown Over Taxes
by Josh Rogers

Morning Edition, July 17, 2007 · New Hampshire couple Ed and Elaine Brown has since April holed up in their hilltop home in defiance of a federal court that sentenced them to a five-year prison term for income tax evasion. The Browns insist the IRS lacks the authority to require such a levy and say they won't be taken alive.

that couple didn't play the game right. defiance and using legal loopholes are two different things.

Heatherj43 · July 2007

Question: Does this now set up a precedent? If so, one wouldn't even need an expensive law team, right?
And, would people be able to go back and get the tax money the gov't took in previous years?

onelongsong · July 2007

Heatherj43 wrote:

Question: Does this now set up a precedent? If so, one wouldn't even need an expensive law team, right?
And, would people be able to go back and get the tax money the gov't took in previous years?

it's law and it's been law. you can't go back because you didn't have a trust set-up for the past years.

DriftingByTheStorm · July 2007

Heatherj43 wrote:

Question: Does this now set up a precedent? If so, one wouldn't even need an expensive law team, right?
And, would people be able to go back and get the tax money the gov't took in previous years?

well, assuming it DOES NOT get appealed and WON ON APPEAL by the GOVERNMENT (meaning, they get to reargue their case AGAINST Cryer, and then subsequently WIN their case) ... assuming that, then YES, it absolutely would set up a precedent ... WHICH IS WHY NO MAJOR NEWS MEDIA (except for the lovely local Shreveport Times, YAY SHREVEPORT TIMES!) ... HAS REPORTED IT!

Also,
at the very least, you have CRYER'S ENTIRE LEGAL POSITION available on his website. And if THAT gets taken down, i have a copy saved!

onelongsong · July 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

well, assuming it DOES NOT get appealed and WON ON APPEAL by the GOVERNMENT (meaning, they get to reargue their case AGAINST Cryer, and then subsequently WIN their case) ... assuming that, then YES, it absolutely would set up a precedent ... WHICH IS WHY NO MAJOR NEWS MEDIA (except for the lovely local Shreveport Times, YAY SHREVEPORT TIMES!) ... HAS REPORTED IT!

Also,
at the very least, you have CRYER'S ENTIRE LEGAL POSITION available on his website. And if THAT gets taken down, i have a copy saved!

ever hear of double jeprody? cryer CANNOT be tried again. the government CANNOT appeal the decision.

Cosmo · July 2007

I don't mind paying my share of taxes. I mean, i happen to like the idea of traffic lights and paved highways and cops and firefighters and soldiers.
And I also don't mind if some of my taxes goes to someone who needs a hot meal. I earn enough to the point of if I'm hungry, i pop down to the local taco stand and eat. I don't concern myself with how another person got to the point where he or she is hungry... I concern myself with getting them a meal.
And i also like the idea of my taxes going to fund maintenance and upgrades to B-2 Bombers. I know... B-2 don't serve a purpose against terrorists or insurgents, but, even though I hope it doesn't happen... I don't discount that possibility of one of the big boys like Russia or China wanting to wage war against us. If it does happens, I'll be glad we have those B-2. If it doesn't happen... I'd like to think the threat of those B-2 were on the minds of their military strategists.

DriftingByTheStorm · July 2007

onelongsong wrote:

ever hear of double jeprody? cryer CANNOT be tried again. the government CANNOT appeal the decision.

Well then HELL YEAH.
(truthfully, i was wondering that myself, but had read on another website something about the government "would probably appeal" ... which i foolishly believed)

ANYHOW...

Here is a VERY unofficial transcript of the court case ! ! !

CASE TRANSCRIPT (sort of): http://edbrownextendedentries.blogspot.com/2007/07/tom-cryers-trial-summary.html

Man found NOT-GUILTY (acquitted) on FAILURE TO FILE INCOME TAX RETURN ! ! !

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