Obama says...

Collin · July 2008

decides2dream wrote:

just to clarify - we do not 'claim' to be any other nationality. what it is simply is the fact that we ARE a nation of immigrants, even those born here....heritage elsewhere...thus fellow americans will ask 'what are you?'....as in, your heritage, so simply short-hand: i am italian and irish. if an american is abroad, they'd say they are american. it is only at home one says things like i am italian, etc......b/c it's a link to your family's past. besides which, many americans WERE born elsewhere, then became american citizens. that would be my dad. so i am a first generation american. just sayin'..........

I know, but I think it sounds ridiculous, that's all.

and that last part, complete agreement.
i WISH i grew up speaking italian, alas my father never shared his native language with us. yes, i could learn another language on my own right now if i truly desired, but while i love languages, i just don't have the desire to stick with it, and i certainly would not have enough practice, so i simply don't bother....:p

It does take a lot of time and effort to learn another language.

decides2dream · July 2008

Collin wrote:

I know, but I think it sounds ridiculous to ME, that's all.

i understand.

to most of us who live here...it makes sense, and helps us learn about others and their heritage, identities, etc. it merely is interesting convo and sure, people do take some 'pride' for lack of a better term, in their families heritage.

Collin wrote:

It does take a lot of time and effort to learn another language.

absolutely!
thus why, without any 'real' incentive to do so....i don't.

the thought of learning another langauge truly interest me, but evidently not enough. i know i would never really reach a true fluency b/c i would never have enough time/exposure USING another language. perhaps if i stayed in education, maybe....or took a different direction in my career, would be very useful i am sure. since i haven't though, it would be half-assed at best. so yea.....:p

i am always in awe of people who are fluent in 2 or more languages, such as yourself. it absolutely IS far easier if you are brought up bilingual, and i have heard many who know multiple languages say it's almost like a 'switch' in the brain, from one language to another....and i guess the earlier you learn, the easier it is to control. beyond that, once you learn how to flip that switch, it become easier? perhaps to switch to/from multiple languages. i don't know and i never will know...but it fascinates me.

i just remember while living in london my very good finnish friend said she knew she needed to visit home when all her dreams were in english.

Collin · July 2008

decides2dream wrote:

i understand.
to most of us who live here...it makes sense, and helps us learn about others and their heritage, identities, etc. it merely is interesting convo and sure, people do take some 'pride' for lack of a better term, in their families heritage.

Well, I understand that heritage is important and interesting, but it sounds ridiculous to hear someone say "I'm this or that" when they're clearly not.

I'm not French, Italian or Spanish yet I could easily trace my heritage back to France, Italy and Spain. If people ask me what I am I say I'm Belgian. If they ask about my heritage I tell them my ancestors were from those countries. I'm not.

It would be more logical if people said they're of Italian descent, for example, rather than saying they're Italian. Perhaps that infamous American laziness has something to do with it, after all, it is easier, definitely shorter, to say the latter.

absolutely!
thus why, without any 'real' incentive to do so....i don't. the thought of learning another langauge truly interest me, but evidently not enough. i know i would never really reach a true fluency b/c i would never have enough time/exposure USING another language. perhaps if i stayed in education, maybe....or took a different direction in my career, would be very useful i am sure. since i haven't though, it would be half-assed at best. so yea.....

You could do it when you retire. Learn a language and travel to practise!

i am always in awe of people who are fluent in 2 or more languages, such as yourself. it absolutely IS far easier if you are brought up bilingual, and i have heard many who know multiple languages say it's almost like a 'switch' in the brain, from one language to another....and i guess the earlier you learn, the easier it is to control. beyond that, once you learn how to flip that switch, it become easier? perhaps to switch to/from multiple languages. i don't know and i never will know...but it fascinates me.

i just remember while living in london my very good finnish friend said she knew she needed to visit home when all her dreams were in english.

I have that too. But not just when I'm in an English speaking country! I dream in English all the time and I think in English all the time.

After I went to the States, I took a few days before I started to think in Dutch again.

edit: I thought the "to me" you added in my post was already in the "I think"

decides2dream · July 2008

Collin wrote:

Well, I understand that heritage is important and interesting, but it sounds ridiculous to hear someone say "I'm this or that" when they're clearly not.

I'm not French, Italian or Spanish yet I could easily trace my heritage back to France, Italy and Spain. If people ask me what I am I say I'm Belgian. If they ask about my heritage I tell them my ancestors were from those countries. I'm not.

It would be more logical if people said they're of Italian descent, for example, rather than saying they're Italian. Perhaps that infamous American laziness has something to do with it, after all, it is easier, definitely shorter, to say the latter.

You could do it when you retire. Learn a language and travel to practise!

I have that too. But not just when I'm in an English speaking country! I dream in English all the time and I think in English all the time.

After I went to the States, I took a few days before I started to think in Dutch again.

edit: I thought the "to me" you added in my post was already in the "I think"

as i said in my first response to your post on the subject...it's a 'short-hand.' everyone clearly 'knows' they are not irish, italian or whatever else....it's an unspoken thing understood that you are discussing heritage, and i explained why.

beyond that, clearly there ARE many, many people who live in the US who ARE italian, irish, etc.....so you just don't know.

and of course i will travel when i retire...and long before! thing is, how much travel will i do to necesssitate learning one language outisde of english? i would more than likely travel to many, many different countries.....thus learning one other language will probably not get me very far nor get used often enough, etc. sure, perhaps spanish, but of all languages..i really don't want to learn spanish.

bottomline, i just don't have a great enough desire or incentive to learn. perhaps if i convinced my husband, maybe.....then it could be fun. i just don't think it'll happen in this lifetime.

however, on topic, i FULLY agree it is a GREAt idea for children to learn and grow up with another language...then it really would be a non-issue as ALL would grow up with at least 2 languages. it would be an awesome thing to see in this country.

and it was...i just added it in for emphasis.

Zanne · July 2008

decides2dream wrote:

just to clarify - we do not 'claim' to be any other nationality. what it is simply is the fact that we ARE a nation of immigrants, even those born here....heritage elsewhere...thus fellow americans will ask 'what are you?'....as in, your heritage, so simply short-hand: i am italian and irish. if an american is abroad, they'd say they are american. it is only at home one says things like i am italian, etc......b/c it's a link to your family's past. besides which, many americans WERE born elsewhere, then became american citizens. that would be my dad. so i am a first generation american. just sayin'..........

and that last part, complete agreement.
i WISH i grew up speaking italian, alas my father never shared his native language with us. yes, i could learn another language on my own right now if i truly desired, but while i love languages, i just don't have the desire to stick with it, and i certainly would not have enough practice, so i simply don't bother....:p

There is a big difference between Nationality and Descent.

CityMouse · July 2008

_outlaw wrote:

Spanish is becoming an increasingly relevant language these days. the US is one of the only countries in the world whose students do not study more than 1 language. I went to Egypt and the kids there are forced to learn Arabic, English, AND either French or German in their schools from a young age.

Languages are important, and I think it's a good idea to have kids learning another language in school.

when I was in school we had a choice between french and spanish...everyone had to take a language.

the reason it's not as common to for young kids to learn other languages in the US is that there's not as much of need for it in every day life. you can travel anywhere in the US and Canada and speak English to almost anyone. If you live in a small country in a diverse area of the world, it's probably more important.

decides2dream · July 2008

Zanne wrote:

There is a big difference between Nationality and Descent.

no shit...i thought my post clearly stated the same. thought that was obvious. there IS a big difference, thus why i refer to it as 'short-hand'....or as collin worded it, american laziness.

CityMouse wrote:

when I was in school we had a choice between french and spanish...everyone had to take a language.

the reason it's not as common to for young kids to learn other languages in the US is that there's not as much of need for it in every day life. you can travel anywhere in the US and Canada and speak English to almost anyone. If you live in a small country in a diverse area of the world, it's probably more important.

btw - sure, i had to take a language...in high school! had to take either spanish or french...plus latin! the latin actually has been handy.

i got all As in my language courses but NO way do i have any degree of fluency, at all. far too late i think to truly learn well and get at all fluent. sure, it CAN be done at any age, but yea...the younger the better/easier. i think too b/c we are not as exposed to foreign languages it's more difficult. i know many, many foreign language speakers who said how much 'easier' it was for them to learn english anyway, b/c soooo much english-language is EVERYwhere....music/tv/movies...they get accustomed to hearing it, etc...and it aids learning.

and you're right of course...but it's still a shame.

LeilaMoonTurtle · July 2008

relevant?
these days?

_outlaw wrote:

Spanish is becoming an increasingly relevant language these days. the US is one of the only countries in the world whose students do not study more than 1 language. I went to Egypt and the kids there are forced to learn Arabic, English, AND either French or German in their schools from a young age.

Languages are important, and I think it's a good idea to have kids learning another language in school.

Zanne · July 2008

decides2dream wrote:

no shit...i thought my post clearly stated the same. thought that was obvious. there IS a big difference, thus why i refer to it as 'short-hand'....or as collin worded it, american laziness.

Sorry if you got the opposite impression, but I was agreeing with your statement. Funny how the thing we are discussing, "language/s" can be easily misinterpreted.

Collin · July 2008

decides2dream wrote:

beyond that, clearly there ARE many, many people who live in the US who ARE italian, irish, etc.....so you just don't know.

Really? I had no idea... but in my defense, I only saw a small part of your country, namely New York City.

i just don't think it'll happen in this lifetime.

Well, I'm sure you'll pick up quite a few words and phrases during your travels.

however, on topic, i FULLY agree it is a GREAt idea for children to learn and grow up with another language...then it really would be a non-issue as ALL would grow up with at least 2 languages. it would be an awesome thing to see in this country.

If I ever have children I'd love to raise them in the Czech republic or a country where people speak English. And I would talk to my kids in Dutch and teach them how to write and read in Dutch.

Collin · July 2008

CityMouse wrote:

the reason it's not as common to for young kids to learn other languages in the US is that there's not as much of need for it in every day life. you can travel anywhere in the US and Canada and speak English to almost anyone. If you live in a small country in a diverse area of the world, it's probably more important.

This is true. But the times have changed, Spanish has definitely become a factor in many places in the US.

So, who's going to teach their children Chinese? Or Russian? The Russians have started a project to promote the Russian language...

unsung · July 2008

Collin wrote:

This is true. But the times have changed, Spanish has definitely become a factor in many places in the US.

So, who's going to teach their children Chinese? Or Russian? The Russians have started a project to promote the Russian language...

As a student of Russian I look forward to more people learning it and having good conversation. Any idea where I can find info on that project?

Smellyman2 · July 2008

I ain't lernin no mexican..

Its Evolution Baby · July 2008

unsung wrote:

As a student of Russian I look forward to more people learning it and having good conversation. Any idea where I can find info on that project?

I think your knowledge of Russian is great and I applaud you for learning another language, but you can't argue that knowing Spanish won't be more useful in day to day life. Of course you couldn't pretend to be a Bond villain.

I agree the immigrants job to learn English but the fact is we neighbor Mexico and have a lot of legal and illegal immigrants who are new to the US who face a language barrier. Plus most Spanish speaking people I encounter in Santa Barbara which is a TON try to speak English but its very broken English. My basic understanding of Spanish allows me to translate there broken English for the most part.

I agree with Obama that other nations require kids to become bilingual in elementary school when they can learn language much easier. I took 4 years of Spanish in High School and very little has stuck. It would make our nations kids more diverse, understanding of other cultures, and eligible for jobs that require Spanish speaking people. All good things if you ask me.

unsung · July 2008

Yes now it would be of more use. But I have future plans and Russian will be paying off in the long run. I'm tired of the citizens bending over and taking it dry to accommodate an illegal population because they won't adapt like millions have over the last 200 years. What makes them better than all of the Irish, Italians, Germans, Polish, etc.?

Learning a language has to have more to it than just learning the language. If you have no interest in the culture it makes little sense to learn one over another. Personally having been to Russia the place fascinates me, the history is remarkable, and to me the people are very gracious.

I have no interest in going to Mexico, Spain perhaps, but not Mexico. I'd rather holiday in Baghdad.

acoustic guy · July 2008

I have not posted here for a few pages but I wanted to say before is this.... I do think its very smart to learn as many languages as possible. It can only help you in life. But when people make the comment that "Oh well in europe everybody learns many languages". Well, thats mainly b/c there countries are very close together like out states are. If All 50 states spoke different, then we would most likely speak many as well.Sure many Americans are lazy and don't want to learn others but for the most part they do not need to. Unless you are planning to educate yourself or visit another country then you by all means should learn everything you can about that country. Again, like I said before its a respect thing.

acoustic guy · July 2008

Collin wrote:

The US doesn't have a national language.

What???? OMG.

Collin · July 2008

acoustic guy wrote:

What???? OMG.

Well, it doesn't have an official language anyway.

"The United States has no "official" language. If you would like the United States to adopt an official language, you should submit this request to your state representatives in Congress."

http://answers.usa.gov/cgi-bin/gsa_ict.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=7261&p_created=1144699674&p_sid=vDJGHt8j&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MzkmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MiZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWVuZ2xpc2g*&p_li=&p_topview=1

Collin · July 2008

unsung wrote:

As a student of Russian I look forward to more people learning it and having good conversation. Any idea where I can find info on that project?

http://www.russian2007.ru/index_eng.html

Apparently, it was a one year thing. I made a thread about it once, but no one replied.

I'm going to take an introduction to Russian next year.

nobody · July 2008

unsung wrote:

What makes them better than all of the Irish, Italians, Germans, Polish, etc.?

well, maybe 200 years ago the italians, germans, polish didn't learn the language right away either, and I'm sure some of them came in illegally as well. maybe only their children who were born in america were in full control of english. and the first generation still had some accent or whatever.

as a matter of fact, before WWII there were still places in the US where german was the first language of a lot of people (like around Indianapolis I think). And there were campaigns like "don't speak the enemies language". Which means that the government had to use some pressure to get rid of it.

So this problem is not new. If there are constant streams of new immigrants it always seems like "they" don't learn the language. Maybe they don't completely. but sure most of their children will.

m.

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