Rant

mammasan
mammasan Posts: 5,656
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
I'm starting to get a bit sick and tired at the labeling that is occuring on this message board. Racism is not something that should be taken lightly nor should that label be through around lightly. Not all of us are going to agree on this board and that is the beauty of it. If we all had the same opinion none of would be able to learn from each other. Anti-semtism is a term that I have seen pop up more and more frequently on this board. We all have different opinions and levels of support for Israel. Some of us fully support Israel and it's actions, other stand in the middle, and others still are completely against many of Israels actions. This is especially true in regards to the Israel/Palestinian situation. We don't see eye to eye, but lately that has been reason to label someone an anti-semite. That term carries such a vile and disturbing meaning, as it should, much like most racist labels. I don't know of anyone on this board that would fit the description of an anti-semite. Do some people here disagree with Israeli policy? Yes. Do some here disagree with the manner in which the state of Israel was created? Yes. No one here, that I have seen, wishes ill will on Israelies or Jews or thinks that Jews should not have a land of their own and the ability to live a peacefull life. I view it as me labeling people who support to deportation of all illegal immigrants racist simply because most are hispanic. That would be a diplorable act by me to label someone something so vile simply because I don't agree with. I'm sure I will get an ear full or maybe even called an anti-semite for this but I just had to get it off my chest.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Agree with you 100%. But don't you think there are also some people on the board (that I shall not name), that are just doing that for 'shock' value? There are still some of these people that I have trouble thinking that they might actually mean what they say and that they are not 'just making trouble'.

    It would seem that some cannot understand that most will be speaking against policies and government and not against people as such (ie Israel as the state vs a particular person as a jew). Things are taken way too personally and personal attacks are becoming the norm.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    redrock wrote:
    Agree with you 100%. But don't you think there are also some people on the board (that I shall not name), that are just doing that for 'shock' value? There are still some of these people that I have trouble thinking that they might actually mean what they say and that they are not 'just making trouble'.

    It would seem that some cannot understand that most will be speaking against policies and government and not against people as such (ie Israel as the state vs a particular person as a jew). Things are taken way too personally and personal attacks are becoming the norm.


    Regardless of the reason why they are using the term, it is still dispicable to label someone that term who doesn't deserve it. I hate to use this line, but I have many Jewish friends.One of my dearest and closest friends is Jewish. I love him like a brother. If it where not for his religion (my church does not allow non-christians to be godparents) he would have been the godfather of my first born. I have had many of the same discussion with him that we have here and never once has he called me or thought of me as an anti-semite. He realizes that my gripe is against the Israeli government and has nothing to do with the Jewish people. You are also correct about the personal attacks. Way to many people here resort to personal attacks instead of debating the issue. Like I said we are not all going to agree on here but that is no reason to verbally attack someone.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Reminds me of Abraham Foxman, that guy just doesn't stop.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • the face
    the face Posts: 192
    mammasan wrote:
    I'm starting to get a bit sick and tired at the labeling that is occuring on this message board. Racism is not something that should be taken lightly nor should that label be through around lightly. Not all of us are going to agree on this board and that is the beauty of it. If we all had the same opinion none of would be able to learn from each other. Anti-semtism is a term that I have seen pop up more and more frequently on this board. We all have different opinions and levels of support for Israel. Some of us fully support Israel and it's actions, other stand in the middle, and others still are completely against many of Israels actions. This is especially true in regards to the Israel/Palestinian situation. We don't see eye to eye, but lately that has been reason to label someone an anti-semite. That term carries such a vile and disturbing meaning, as it should, much like most racist labels. I don't know of anyone on this board that would fit the description of an anti-semite. Do some people here disagree with Israeli policy? Yes. Do some here disagree with the manner in which the state of Israel was created? Yes. No one here, that I have seen, wishes ill will on Israelies or Jews or thinks that Jews should not have a land of their own and the ability to live a peacefull life. I view it as me labeling people who support to deportation of all illegal immigrants racist simply because most are hispanic. That would be a diplorable act by me to label someone something so vile simply because I don't agree with. I'm sure I will get an ear full or maybe even called an anti-semite for this but I just had to get it off my chest.

    Your point is taken. I am not Israeli, but did notice a tendency of a few people on this board to vent in a rather unnatural way against Israel. One cat even called Martin Luther King a bigot. That's a quote. I won't repeat myself here, but I put an argument out there why some people equate Anti - Semitism to Anti - Israel bashing. It is a fine line. So if you are going to approach that line, you should know what you are talking about. And for the record I don't think your an anti-semite at all. You actually seem a little more informed than some of your pals on this thread. But when you see that someone has started 20 or more anti israel threads with hundreds of anti israel posts it sure appears to be more than just an issue with the State of Israel.....
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    the face wrote:
    Your point is taken. I am not Israeli, but did notice a tendency of a few people on this board to vent in a rather unnatural way against Israel. One cat even called Martin Luther King a bigot. That's a quote. I won't repeat myself here, but I put an argument out there why some people equate Anti - Semitism to Anti - Israel bashing. It is a fine line. So if you are going to approach that line, you should know what you are talking about. And for the record I don't think your an anti-semite at all. You actually seem a little more informed than some of your pals on this thread. But when you see that someone has started 20 or more anti israel threads with hundreds of anti israel posts it sure appears to be more than just an issue with the State of Israel.....

    Haha, dude, you called miller an anti-semite and he's usually the one slapping that label on people. haha.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • the face
    the face Posts: 192
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Haha, dude, you called miller an anti-semite and he's usually the one slapping that label on people. haha.

    It's exhibit A. I never called Miller or anyone else an anti-semite. stupid. yes. moronic. yes. Which one did I call you? Ah Salam Alekem my brother.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    the face wrote:
    It's exhibit A. I never called Miller or anyone else an anti-semite. stupid. yes. moronic. yes. Which one did I call you? Ah Salam Alekem my brother.
    the face wrote:
    nice
    miller8966 wrote:
    lol im just kidding..

    But honestly how can israel deal with a group of people whose idea of a democracy is to shoot each other?

    How can Israel deal with a political party ( hamas) who does not even believe in the right of its existence?

    If Israel goes back to its pre-1967 borders will the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on the streets of tel-aviv. When it is pre-conditioned into the palestinians mind to hate israel from such a young age.

    Will the palestinians be willing to give up the dome of the rock? Because we all know what was there before it.

    well thats not really just a palestinian issue. thats an issue for the whole arab world. the dome of the rock is in israeli hands and has not been desecrated but given the honor it deserves. one can only imagine the horror if the palestinians got their hands on the wailing wall. if the israelis were the animals youd like the world to think they were, they'd have blown the dome of the rock up years ago and built a new temple on the spot. when jersualem was in jordanian hands every temple in eastern jersualem was destroyed or desecrated. good point miller

    Pretty much you did.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • the face
    the face Posts: 192
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Pretty much you did.
    The "You'd" was a general expression. Not a directed one. Clear now?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    the face wrote:
    The "You'd" was a general expression. Not a directed one. Clear now?

    Uh, no. That doesn't seem right.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • the face
    the face Posts: 192
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Uh, no. That doesn't seem right.
    We can get you an English tutor to come with your History tutor if you'd like....dude..
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    the face wrote:
    We can get you an English tutor to come with your History tutor if you'd like....dude..

    I liked your first post better.

    There is nothing wrong with my English.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    I agree with you entirely that being critical of Israel does not make someone an anti-semite and they should not be labeled as such. But have you not seen the posts on the thread where people have talked about Jewish control of the media, or Jewish control of financial markets (there was one post in particular that said that Hitler was responding to the Jewish control of finance in Europe) or about how Israel controls America, which closely apes the assertion that the Jews control America? Do such comments not strike you to be in the least bit anti-semitic?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    dayan wrote:
    I agree with you entirely that being critical of Israel does not make someone an anti-semite and they should not be labeled as such. But have you not seen the posts on the thread where people have talked about Jewish control of the media, or Jewish control of financial markets (there was one post in particular that said that Hitler was responding to the Jewish control of finance in Europe) or about how Israel controls America, which closely apes the assertion that the Jews control America? Do such comments not strike you to be in the least bit anti-semitic?

    Yea, but dude, those statements are in some way true. So it's not really anti-semitic. Saying Hitler was reacting to the monetary control of Europe, in no way implies that all Jews are anything. It's a type of rational where a person can see the motivation for what Hitler did. This does not mean that Hitler was justified.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • RavennaSeattle1911
    RavennaSeattle1911 Posts: 478
    The Adl Are Raving Anti-semites!!!
    http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

    http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    In college, I took a summer english course taught by a guy from africa. Even though he had a really heavy african accent, he spoke and wrote english very well. He had a master's in it from UCSD. Anyway, on the last day of class just as everyone was being let out, he goes, "Have a nice summer and remember: The jews control the media."

    I was like lmao, but later realized that it really wasn't that funny. A jewish friend of mine was like dude you should've reported him to the dean.
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:
    The Adl Are Raving Anti-semites!!!

    Haha, the ADL. Personally, I find the ADL to be very offensive sometimes.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    sponger wrote:
    In college, I took a summer english course taught by a guy from africa. Even though he had a really heavy african accent, he spoke and wrote english very well. He had a master's in it from UCSD. Anyway, on the last day of class just as everyone was being let out, he goes, "Have a nice summer and remember: The jews control the media."

    I was like lmao, but later realized that it really wasn't that funny. A jewish friend of mine was like dude you should've reported him to the dean.

    Yea but, in some ways that's true. The jewish lobbyists are the largest in the United States and the ADL makes sure no criticism of Israel gets aired. Certainly not on FOX anyway. If we could agree on a term to use for individuals that control media, or money, then we could call them that. But as it stands, they are referred to as Jews. Which isn't to my liking.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I'm mean, it's so fucked up, I can't even say Jew without looking over my shoulder. The term Jew is almost taboo. What a world we live in.

    My biggest problem is that, trying to limit what people say, to the extent they will not even talk about Jews or use the term.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea, but dude, those statements are in some way true. So it's not really anti-semitic. Saying Hitler was reacting to the monetary control of Europe, in no way implies that all Jews are anything. It's a type of rational where a person can see the motivation for what Hitler did. This does not mean that Hitler was justified.

    ok first, these statements are pretty clearly factually false to any observer not pre-disposed to paranoid delusion. There are many Jews involved in finance who have done quite well. That is true. It is not true to say that they control the financial system, any more than it is to say that wasps control the financial system because there are alot of rich wasps. When you start saying that the Jews control finance you have crossed the line. you are dealing in paranoid fantasy. And you're right that saying that Jews control European finance isn't the same as saying Jews are an inferior race, but that doesn't mean that it is any less anti-semitic. such statements still inspire hatred and fear of Jews by portraying them as the devious and secretive masters pulling the strings behind the scenes. And I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to understand what led Hitler to do what he did, except there is a difference between saying that Hitler believed that Jews controlled European finance and saying that Jews actually did control European finance.
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea but, in some ways that's true. The jewish lobbyists are the largest in the United States and the ADL makes sure no criticism of Israel gets aired. Certainly not on FOX anyway. If we could agree on a term to use for individuals that control media, or money, then we could call them that. But as it stands, they are referred to as Jews. Which isn't to my liking.

    Again though this simply isn't true. There are influental Jews in media. But Jews do not control the media. There are just as many non-Jews, probably more, involved in media with just as much influence. And as for criticism of Israel not making it into the news, I simply don't know how you can say this. On the train right now are links to interviews run on major news networks with David Duke and an anti-zionist rabbi. During the war between Israel and Lebanon this summer there were constantly interviews with very eloquent Lebanese officials who were extremely critical of Israel. I think generally most news outlets do their best to present both sides of an issue, so I don't see how you can say that the media silences criticism of Israel.

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