Saay NO to violence against women!

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    fragileblake wrote:
    Understanding that, I feel, is the definition of emotional intelligence. Its also a good indicator of healthy self esteem and self confidence. Great insight. Its amazing if you go down every contentious issue in politics or life you'll find highly educated and intelligent people on both sides of the fence (and some riding that said fence). I'm always humbled and encouraged when someone who I respect disagrees with me and I certainly don't feel the need to take every disagreement as an opportunity to feel smarter or better than someone.

    That's not the definition of emotional intelligence.

    Emotional Intelligence (EI), often measured as an Emotional Intelligence Quotient (EQ), describes an ability, capacity, or skill to perceive, assess, and manage the emotions of one's self, of others, and of groups.

    That means. I feel, but I recognize that those feelings do not convey fact prema facie, but they are brought on by an external influence and obscured by my own personal biases. Therefor, I may feel cheated by a friend, but that does not mean that in reality I was cheated or that was the intention of my friend.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    fragileblake wrote:
    Understanding that, I feel, is the definition of emotional intelligence. Its also a good indicator of healthy self esteem and self confidence. Great insight. Its amazing if you go down every contentious issue in politics or life you'll find highly educated and intelligent people on both sides of the fence (and some riding that said fence). I'm always humbled and encouraged when someone who I respect disagrees with me and I certainly don't feel the need to take every disagreement as an opportunity to feel smarter or better than someone.

    :) I always find it a personal challenge when I come up against a difference of opinion. Because there's so much to learn from trying to see it from the other person's perspective. I see it a lot like you've said. And I've always wondered about how I could mostly agree with someone, completely enjoy their company but just not see eye to eye about a particular issue. I wonder at the commanilities and then when the differences come up they're really food for thought. Because it helps you to examine yourself and your motivations and your perspective and see if you need to make changes in your own thinking. Or even just recognize that maybe your own thinking isn't up to par but you're not sure if you can change it. Even the simpliest of people and their views have provided food for thought for me. I think we can always learn things from each other. Just like I just did from you. Thank you. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Um, didn't John Wayne Gacy have the sexual identity issues? Wasn't he the guy who used to like doing traditionally female chores and his dad ridiculed him for it. He was married to a woman but raped and murdered several boys and stored their dead bodies in the basement. Then when he was caught he kept saying "I'm not gay". I'm pretty sure that was the guy, yup.

    So... how does this relate to violence against women? Gacy murdered 33 boys and young men, no women.

    weren't you speaking of Dahlmer that only killed boys and young men? Gacy may have had sexual identity issues, that's not to say that he didn't kill those boys and young men out of lust as well. psychopathic behavior isn't so black and white as it say that his motives was all out issues of sexual identity or all out of lust.

    this doesn't relate to violence against women....it would seem that topic went off the rails aways back. anyway I'm not going to comment anymore on this thread unless it's to address the original topic
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    prism wrote:
    weren't you speaking of Dahlmer that only killed boys and young men? Gacy may have had sexual identity issues, that's not to say that he didn't kill those boys and young men out of lust as well. psychopathic behavior isn't so black and white as it say that his motives was all out issues of sexual identity or all out of lust.

    this doesn't relate to violence against women....it would seem that topic went off the rails aways back. anyway I'm not going to comment anymore on this thread unless it's to address the original topic

    Cate was saying that insanity is a motivation for violence against women. She used Dahmer as an example, but Dahmer murdered boys, then you came in with Gacy, who also murdered boys. Bundy would have been a better example, but I'm glad these other two came out, because they are examples of the exact same violence against men. I don't think insanity cares what gender you are. But the point I was trying to make is that these cases are so rare that you might as well be talking about motor vehicle accidents, since they are more threatening.

    Now, why aren't I afraid of Clowns? Why am I not afraid to leave my house? I have the threat of insane men deciding I have a delicious ass that would look great on the barbecue. In addition, I might be struck by lightning or some scaffolding might fall on me from a nearby construction site. Why don't I fear these things? Better yet, why do women fear the insane man, but not the scaffolding?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Okay. :) Sorry Caterina for my part in derailing your thread.
    I just wanted to let you know I signed the petition and I've sent the link to everyone in my address book.
    Thanks for bringing it to my attention. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Ok... so what is UNIFEM going to do about it? They are going to petition the governments. Great!. What are the governments going to do about it? Fascistically impose your beliefs on another country through sanctions or military action? I'll bet you, more people will die from those sanctions than from being beaten by a partner. Maybe G Dubya will wavie his finger at Ahmenidinejad and say "You naughty person you!"

    Anyone would have my support if they offered a clear and concise game plan with a realistic projection of the results. I personally can't see how any good might come from these petitions, other than a good measure of how many people care enough. I do care, but I'm not gonna blindly lend my support to a totally useless program. Especially, what if the governments do impose sanctions then people die from starvation or lack of medical care. Or Dubya says "fuck it" and invades Iran killing 300,000 women in the process. Meanwhile Iranian women are running at US tanks with bombs on their chest yelling "allah akbar!"

    Anyway, maybe I am too cynical, but what is the game plan besides just petitioning the governments to do something, do what?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ok... so what is UNIFEM going to do about it? They are going to petition the governments. Great!. What are the governments going to do about it? Fascistically impose your beliefs on another country through sanctions or military action? I'll bet you, more people will die from those sanctions than from being beaten by a partner. Maybe G Dubya will wavie his finger at Ahmenidinejad and say "You naughty person you!"

    Anyone would have my support if they offered a clear and concise game plan with a realistic projection of the results. I personally can't see how any good might come from these petitions, other than a good measure of how many people care enough. I do care, but I'm not gonna blindly lend my support to a totally useless program. Especially, what if the governments do impose sanctions then people die from starvation or lack of medical care. Or Dubya says "fuck it" and invades Iran killing 300,000 women in the process. Meanwhile Iranian women are running at US tanks with bombs on their chest yelling "allah akbar!"

    Anyway, maybe I am too cynical, but what is the game plan besides just petitioning the governments to do something, do what?

    Did you go to the site Ryan?
    All things start small you know. That's why I reckon if you want to get the ball rolling on violence against men that you start now with small things that bring awareness, so that more people can become educated on what is acceptable and what isn't. EVENTUALLY there will be a ground swell of awareness and people will come to the table with realistic ideas about how to fix the problem. It's no different to anything else. Things start as small ideas held by one person, they share it with another and add their own perspective and pretty soon changes start to occur. Just think of this petition and the setting up of Unifem as one of the first baby steps. Acknowledgement of the problem. From there we move forward one step at a time until hopefully violence against ANYONE is a thing of the past.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Did you go to the site Ryan?
    All things start small you know. That's why I reckon if you want to get the ball rolling on violence against men that you start now with small things that bring awareness, so that more people can become educated on what is acceptable and what isn't. EVENTUALLY there will be a ground swell of awareness and people will come to the table with realistic ideas about how to fix the problem. It's no different to anything else. Things start as small ideas held by one person, they share it with another and add their own perspective and pretty soon changes start to occur. Just think of this petition and the setting up of Unifem as one of the first baby steps. Acknowledgement of the problem. From there we move forward one step at a time until hopefully violence against ANYONE is a thing of the past.

    What if I think UNIFEM is a problem?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea, let's talk about the chances of being struck by lightning. Is that a reason to stay inside your entire life?

    You are using a extreme cases, very rare cases, in a general way. If you don't fear being struck by lightning when you leave your home, you shouldn't fear being raped and murdered by a psychopath, because they are just as rare.

    well as difficult as this may be to believe ryan, i don't intimidate easily. ;):)
    so no i dont fear being raped and murdered when i step out my front door.
    just cause i have no concerns for my own welfare doesnt mean i cant understand other's concerns for theirs. or admit that sometimes such things happen. and im sure i never mentioned the prevalency of men capable of such things.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    well as difficult as this may be to believe ryan, i don't intimidate easily. ;):)
    so no i dont fear being raped and murdered when i step out my front door.
    just cause i have no concerns for my own welfare doesnt mean i cant understand other's concerns for theirs. or admit that sometimes such things happen. and im sure i never mentioned the prevalency of men capable of such things.

    Whatever, I'm going to watch the agenda for an hour or so. This should be good it's on Palestine-Israel.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Cate was saying that insanity is a motivation for violence against women. She used Dahmer as an example, but Dahmer murdered boys, then you came in with Gacy, who also murdered boys. Bundy would have been a better example, but I'm glad these other two came out, because they are examples of the exact same violence against men. I don't think insanity cares what gender you are. But the point I was trying to make is that these cases are so rare that you might as well be talking about motor vehicle accidents, since they are more threatening.

    Now, why aren't I afraid of Clowns? Why am I not afraid to leave my house? I have the threat of insane men deciding I have a delicious ass that would look great on the barbecue. In addition, I might be struck by lightning or some scaffolding might fall on me from a nearby construction site. Why don't I fear these things? Better yet, why do women fear the insane man, but not the scaffolding?
    no ryan. i wasnt saying insanity is a motivation for violence against women.
    i explained this to you. i only used the example of dahmer to illustrate my disagreement with your statement about people not hiding their true selves in order to take advantage of someone else. besides insanity isnt a motivation for anything. dahmer's motivation was, amongst other things, to have someone he could love and who could love him. the fact that he could be classed by some as insane is what enables him to carry out his plan. but i think by itself insanity is not a motivation.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What if I think UNIFEM is a problem?

    Well I'm not convinced they're the Messiah either but until they prove otherwise I feel I should support the initiative.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    prism wrote:
    don't believe me? all you gotta do is catch an occasional episode of cops. they DO get arrested and charged though the charges usually DO get dropped.

    also:

    One of the effects of stricter laws and policies directing police to treat domestic violence as serious violent crime has been skyrocketing arrest rates of women for domestic violence. In some police departments the percentage of domestic violence arrests of females has shot up to 30 to 40 percent of the arrests. What's most revealing about this massive shift toward arresting more females is the fact that conviction rates for males vs. females remains basically unchanged. Between 90 and 95 percent of domestic violence convictions continue to be convictions of males. Or looking at it from another angle, a study in San Diego found that in cases in which females were arrested for domestic violence, only 6% of those cases resulted in prosecution.

    What these and many other studies strongly suggest is that the evidence in most female arrests is so flimsy or non-existent that prosecutors can't justify filing charges, or even if the prosecutor does file, the evidence doesn't stand up in court and the case is quickly dismissed. Clearly, in a significant number of these cases, the officers are mistakenly arresting the victim of domestic violence and not the perpetrator. This is also the conclusion that we and many other victim advocates around the country have come to in dealing with these cases on a day by day basis. All too often, when women are arrested for domestic violence you're dealing with a victim who has been mistakenly designated as a perpetrator.

    Women's advocates around the country feel the skyrocketing arrests of females for domestic violence stems from a combination of causes. In some cases outright officer hostility against women, or officer resentment of having to treat domestic violence as serious crime, motivates the arrest. In other cases officers are failing to properly determine the dominant aggressor. In a common variation of this problem, the officer fails to correctly identify defensive wounds and as a result they are arresting women who defend themselves, especially those women who defend themselves successfully. And in another whole set of cases, there are indications that domestic violence perpetrators themselves have gotten increasingly sophisticated at turning the law on women by doing such things as calling 911 themselves or by purposely injuring themselves before police arrive.

    To be sure, there are cases in which the arrest of a female for domestic violence is a legitimate arrest. But the observations of victim advocates and studies around the country indicate that in a high proportion of female arrests, it is a domestic violence victim who has been mistakenly arrested.

    no, what this says to me is cops have orders not to just take someone's word for anything. you both get hauled off to jail. this is a good way to ward off false accusations. you put both people in jail, let them cool off safe from each other, get the story, and then release the innocent party. simple enough.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    soulsinging wrote:
    no, what this says to me is cops have orders not to just take someone's word for anything. you both get hauled off to jail. this is a good way to ward off false accusations. you put both people in jail, let them cool off safe from each other, get the story, and then release the innocent party. simple enough.

    Can you see why many people never ring the police?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Can you see why many people never ring the police?

    There is an interesting paper on that too at dvmen.org

    I also found this amusing.

    The feminism is a secular religion with its own high priestesses, dogmas, and initiation rituals. Its creation myth holds that on the first day Goddess created Eve, and all was right with the world. But that idyllic state was shattered when first patriarch Adam stumbled into the Garden, pounded on the table, and demanded his apple.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    There is an interesting paper on that too at dvmen.org

    I also found this amusing.

    The feminism is a secular religion with its own high priestesses, dogmas, and initiation rituals. Its creation myth holds that on the first day Goddess created Eve, and all was right with the world. But that idyllic state was shattered when first patriarch Adam stumbled into the Garden, pounded on the table, and demanded his apple.


    I'll check it out. :)

    And :D haha! This is why I don't play team sports! Too much time spent with any one group or ideology is not healthy. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Jeanie wrote:
    Can you see why many people never ring the police?

    no. if you're innocent you'll get nothing but a total police escort until your attacker can be booked and charged.

    maybe the neighbor should just come over and shoot them both just in case someone might have committed murder?
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    soulsinging wrote:
    no. if you're innocent you'll get nothing but a total police escort until your attacker can be booked and charged.

    maybe the neighbor should just come over and shoot them both just in case someone might have committed murder?


    Seriously do you ever let anything go? :rolleyes:

    Anyway, regardless, I'd not ring the police unless I absolutely had to because after having the shit kicked out of me who'd want to subject themselves to having to convince police of your guilt or innocence? Just like I couldn't be bothered prolonging my misery by getting the courts or police involved in the first place. Be like being attacked twice. Fuck that.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    no. if you're innocent you'll get nothing but a total police escort until your attacker can be booked and charged.

    maybe the neighbor should just come over and shoot them both just in case someone might have committed murder?

    That's not how it is here. And research in the US has shown that the law about DV actually causes more harm to the victims. Somehow, I think you are making shit up.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    soulsinging wrote:
    no. if you're innocent you'll get nothing but a total police escort until your attacker can be booked and charged.

    maybe the neighbor should just come over and shoot them both just in case someone might have committed murder?

    and
    soulsinging wrote:
    no, what this says to me is cops have orders not to just take someone's word for anything. you both get hauled off to jail. this is a good way to ward off false accusations. you put both people in jail, let them cool off safe from each other, get the story, and then release the innocent party. simple enough.


    a total police escort to jail? the police aren't going to escort a DV victim any place else. plus if the police arrest her she sits in jail until it goes before a judge and charges are dropped or continued. and while that's all going on any kids in the home get a total escort into children's protective custody.

    so yeah instead of deciding who's the initial primary aggressor and arresting that person lets make DV even more tramatic for all the parties involved including any kids.

    Let's see: she has a black eye, has numerous bruises and abrasions all over, and perhaps a couple of cracked ribs. he has a red mark on his skin from where she tried to push him away and the back of his hand is kinda swollen and red from throwing punches. yeah lets just go ahead and throw both of these violent pieces of shit in jail. because it's easier on the cops that way
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
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