If I may?....

13

Comments

  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Specifics wrote:
    Your honesty would have been cool, spoilt by the lame justification.
    I'm rubber you're glue.

    Boing



    Stick

    Sorry, kid, I'm not understanding you. What just stuck to me? That I act in a self-interested way? I already recognized that. If you don't have the self-awareness to realize that you do as well, that is your issue, not mine.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jeffbr wrote:
    Sorry, kid, I'm not understanding you. What just stuck to me? That I act in a self-interested way? I already recognized that. If you don't have the self-awareness to realize that you do as well, that is your issue, not mine.


    So everyone who says they don't act in a selfish manner is just not self aware?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    So everyone who says they don't act in a selfish manner is just not self aware?

    Yes. Except those who are coerced, of course.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    So everyone who says they don't act in a selfish manner is just not self aware?
    When people are coming from a place of selfish interests, it looks that way, because they can't grasp a truly altruistic perspective. :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    angelica wrote:
    When people are coming from a place of selfish interests, it looks that way, because they can't grasp a truly altruistic perspective. :)

    I guess so. I thought that statement was seriously messed up! :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jeffbr wrote:
    Yes. Except those who are coerced, of course.

    Sorry Jeff, but I think you're way off here.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Collin wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTZp1qwWdoA

    Collin...that was f-ing hilarious!
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    angelica wrote:
    When people are coming from a place of selfish interests, it looks that way, because they can't grasp a truly altruistic perspective. :)

    I don't believe true altruism exists. So perhaps you're right. Or perhaps you fit was I was saying above.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    jeffbr wrote:
    I don't believe true altruism exists. So perhaps you're right. Or perhaps you fit was I was saying above.
    The key words being "I don't believe". What do you base this belief on?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    angelica wrote:
    The key words being "I don't believe". What do you base this belief on?

    Life. People do what makes them happy. When someone helps someone, they aren't subjugating their life for someone, as altruism suggests. They are doing something for someone perhaps because of the feeling they get from helping others, perhaps from their belief that their god will reward them in the next life, perhaps because they don't want to appear selfish. There are many reasons people act out of self-interest in a way which those who believe in altruism would perceive as being altruistic.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Specifics wrote:
    Thats interesting, but i cant see what Europe gained out of it, apart from Britain, who have made a nice cosy nest in the bunghole. If the Euro thing thats coming out is true then i can only see a loss.

    I think that whatever gains are made will not be seen or possibly even known about by the general world population. I'm talking gains made by the European elite. Gains made by the British elite. Gains made by the American elite and probably even tiny little Australia's elite. Traditionally, historically, money and power people don't reveal how or when they make money or wrest power. But rest assured they will have been motivated by both and they will have recieved both. Whether or not the common man ever knows about it remains to be seen. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    jeffbr wrote:
    Life. People do what makes them happy. When someone helps someone, they aren't subjugating their life for someone, as altruism suggests. They are doing something for someone perhaps because of the feeling they get from helping others, perhaps from their belief that their god will reward them in the next life, perhaps because they don't want to appear selfish. There are many reasons people act out of self-interest in a way which those who believe in altruism would perceive as being altruistic.

    Just as the first example that springs to mind....What about carers jeff? Those people that care for the sick and the dying even though it is the last thing they want to do? Even though it doesn't make them happy. Even though there will be no "reward" for them. What are they getting out of it? Other than the fact that they know that no one else will do it? And that they care enough about someone elses needs over their own to stay and do the job. There are plenty of things in this life that don't make people happy, that they'd be more than happy not to do, but they find themselves doing it anyway, because it's the right thing to do. I guess I'm not really understanding what you are saying here, but if you are suggesting that people only do things because of what they can get out of it, then I would suggest that you've been spending too much time around the wrong people. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    angelica wrote:
    E: other

    I think it is a bit of all of the above, and probably much more stuff beneath the surface. When they say it's a war on terror or for the good of the Iraqi people, part of them fully believes that, even while another part is salivating over their own selfish interests. Therefore , they feel at peace and even honourable. It's the script that they tell themselves over and over, when they can't deal with their own truth. People are only aware of their conscious motivations. And people deny their ugly motivations and make them go unconscious, so that they can be at peace with themselves. Unfortunately for them, but great for us, is that those of us who are perceptive see the unconscious motivations that reflect all over the place. We can see realistically. We have a vested interest in seeing things realistically, while they have a vested interest in denying their own ugliness and flaws, even to themselves. It's par for the course of normal human denial. We all do this. The WMD part, well most humans are controlled by fear to different degrees, so it is definitely a valid variable as well. If they were honestly concerned about WMDs on one hand, while also heinously milking the fear of the populations on the other, I would not be at all surprised.


    they rationalize...rational lies

    :D
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    jeffbr wrote:
    Life. People do what makes them happy. When someone helps someone, they aren't subjugating their life for someone, as altruism suggests. They are doing something for someone perhaps because of the feeling they get from helping others, perhaps from their belief that their god will reward them in the next life, perhaps because they don't want to appear selfish. There are many reasons people act out of self-interest in a way which those who believe in altruism would perceive as being altruistic.
    Altruism is about putting the concerns of others above one's self. When you refer to selfishly doing things for others, for one's own self-interests, you are not referring to altruism, but rather a facade of altruism. The fact remains that altruism is the opposite of being selfish.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    jeffbr wrote:
    Sorry, kid, I'm not understanding you. What just stuck to me? That I act in a self-interested way? I already recognized that. If you don't have the self-awareness to realize that you do as well, that is your issue, not mine.

    If you dont have the discipline to realise your own faults and either accept or change, instead of justifying by projecting them onto everyone else whats the point?

    I have my faults, but i regularly do a few things for others that give me no pleasure or good feelings, in fact they stop me enjoying the time im doing them. they make me tired. I do them because someone/thing seems to need me at the time. And there are MANY greater people than I.

    As for intellectualism, i would swap that for wisdom every day of the week.
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    Jeanie wrote:
    I think that whatever gains are made will not be seen or possibly even known about by the general world population. I'm talking gains made by the European elite. Gains made by the British elite. Gains made by the American elite and probably even tiny little Australia's elite. Traditionally, historically, money and power people don't reveal how or when they make money or wrest power. But rest assured they will have been motivated by both and they will have recieved both. Whether or not the common man ever knows about it remains to be seen. :)

    Thats just conspiracy theory isnt it? :p
    You've inspired a new thread in me!

    Edit: no i couldnt find the words for that thread maybe later.

    Anyway , i get what you're saying, cronyism on a world wide scale as opposed to solely in the us. This works probably better actually. The hilarious thing about it is the cronyism i read on here and other places concerning the whole thing, from people who aren't anywhere near even being cronies, tragically funny sycophants :)
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    America was motivated by the media.

    This is the best answer.
    The question asked was, What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?

    America is it's people. America's people were motivated for this war. The war administration needed it. The war president needed the motivation of the american people to get congress to comply. They were motivated by what they watched on TV.

    The media were motivated, because, War is the number 1 ratings benefactor of all time. Now that things have changed, it is still the war that brings home the bacon for all the major networks. It was never a matter of for or against, it was a matter of when and how much. We're still there.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    hey is that a good name for a band "tragically funny sycophants"? Edit: no thats just fucking geeky.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    This is the best answer.
    The question asked was, What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?

    America is it's people. America's people were motivated for this war. The war administration needed it. The war president needed the motivation of the american people to get congress to comply. They were motivated by what they watched on TV.

    The media were motivated, because, War is the number 1 ratings benefactor of all time. Now that things have changed, it is still the war that brings home the bacon for all the major networks. It was never a matter of for or against, it was a matter of when and how much. We're still there.

    Q: Could you be a more clear? I'm not sure of what you're saying.
    A: In a capitalistic society, major media networks will never shy away from war. In this scope, in America, historically, it comes in trends, and it invariably favors those with clout in media.
    Q: Bush doesn't have clout in media. Not that I know of, anyway.
    A: Those with clout in media can be anyone, really. The invariablity of which I speak has to do with those who can wage war. War is the bargaining tool. Most of the politics we see today in media is overseen exactly the same way that pro wrestling is.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    gue_barium wrote:
    This is the best answer.
    The question asked was, What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?

    America is it's people. America's people were motivated for this war. The war administration needed it. The war president needed the motivation of the american people to get congress to comply. They were motivated by what they watched on TV.

    The media were motivated, because, War is the number 1 ratings benefactor of all time. Now that things have changed, it is still the war that brings home the bacon for all the major networks. It was never a matter of for or against, it was a matter of when and how much. We're still there.

    will you stop kissing that guys ass?!

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