Why Do You Think Human Life Is So Precious?

onelongsong · November 2007

Abuskedti wrote:

Because society is flawed, if death is a consequence of incompatability - why should the should the solution be death to the individual.. why not death to society?

please explain. i see the indivual to be part of society.

meme · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i believe people can be "rehabilitated". i've seen people start over. i did. it took my death to open my eyes; but i did start over. but i've also seen society make it impossible for someone to start over and function in society.

i know someone that was accused of a sex crime. he was in a colorado hospital at the time this was suppose to happen; but someones testimony meant more. he's banned from living in many places. it's impossible for him to find a normal job because of background checks; so he started his own business installing satellite tv systems. he's one of the lucky ones. i know others (not sex offenders) who couldn't get good jobs because of background checks so they turned to selling drugs. if you do it properly; selling drugs is very profitable; with low risk. so if their lives are precious and they deserve a second chance; why doesn't society give them that second chance?

The easy answer is that most people think they don't deserve one.
I find this post a little out of your character (a useful reminder that everyone is so much more than what we can understand of them?

). So let me ask you a question: why are sex offenders worthy of another chance, but not robbers caught in the act?

Abuskedti · November 2007

MrSmith wrote:

because that would be stupid.

not if you are the individual..

if you are not stupid, you could develop a more agreeable solution than killing those that don't comply

Abuskedti · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

please explain. i see the indivual to be part of society.

many individuals do not

Cosmo · November 2007

I used to be for Capital Punishment... but, not anymore.
This does NOT means I am against punishment. A criminal should do the time in prison... if it means the rest of his life.. it should be the rest of his life.
And just because someone is against Capital Punishment does NOT mean they don't give a shit about the 'Innocent Victims'. Anyone who believes anyone else is 'Pro-Criminal' is an idiot. No one is Pro-Criminal... not matter what your television tells you.

soulsinging · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i wonder why this board is so fast to defend criminals without knowing any background. why so many are against the death penalty for those who cannot be permitted in society; be it our society or the prison society. what good do we do keeping these people alive? if death is the end; and all we can offer these criminals is solitary confinement; we've ended all quality of life anyway. what is the purpose of prolonging the biological aspects of that life?

also; why doesn't anyone consider the innocent victims? in all the threads over many years; the innocent victims are never mentioned.
i'm trying to understand. i would gladly give my life for several people i know. and i'd take the life of a criminal to save an innocent life.
can someone explain why the life of someone that cannot function is society is worth more than someone who can?

mainly becos life is all we've got. it's the only thing i have to lose that i really can't get back. that said, im not afraid to die and i don't think human life is all that special compared to animals or plants or whatever else. just that mine happens to be rather important to me, and becos i imagine most other people feel the same way about their lives, i don't support taking that life lightly.

but i don't oppose the death penalty for that reason. i oppose it becos it's cheaper and safer and life in prison keeps us plenty safe.

soulsinging · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i believe people can be "rehabilitated". i've seen people start over. i did. it took my death to open my eyes; but i did start over. but i've also seen society make it impossible for someone to start over and function in society.

i know someone that was accused of a sex crime. he was in a colorado hospital at the time this was suppose to happen; but someones testimony meant more. he's banned from living in many places. it's impossible for him to find a normal job because of background checks; so he started his own business installing satellite tv systems. he's one of the lucky ones. i know others (not sex offenders) who couldn't get good jobs because of background checks so they turned to selling drugs. if you do it properly; selling drugs is very profitable; with low risk. so if their lives are precious and they deserve a second chance; why doesn't society give them that second chance?

boy, you hang out with some savory characters. how come so many of your buddies have a knack for felony convictions? even more remarkable is how many of them are framed or falsely accused! yet you support the death penalty... good thing that person wasn't testifying against your friend in a murder trial.

onelongsong · November 2007

meme wrote:

The easy answer is that most people think they don't deserve one.
I find this post a little out of your character (a useful reminder that everyone is so much more than what we can understand of them? ). So let me ask you a question: why are sex offenders worthy of another chance, but not robbers caught in the act?

first; i need to explain. robbers caught in the act do deserve another chance. robbers caught in the act AND INTENT ON DOING BODILY HARM OR DEATH to those inside the house; give up that right. maybe it's better explained by saying that if you try to kill me or do bodily harm to me; YOU give me the right to defend myself.

as to being out of character; i post very often that i will take the extreeme side to get the debate heated. when the debate gets heated; we learn much more about peoples feelings. for example; the horn thread. if it didn't get heated; there'd be a dozen posts saying he was wrong and it's a shame about the 2 dead guys. because it did get heated; it went on 12 plus pages and i learned a lot about the people here and how they really feel. i think horn was wrong and i posted that early in the thread.

even flow? · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i believe atheist have morals. that isn't what this is about. to an atheist; life should be worth .98 cents because that is the equivilent of the cost of human make-up.

but that's not what this thread is about. i can see your point about wrongful deaths. it would have to be proven beyond ANY doubt. but i want to know what makes life so precious? people die every minute. we throw their bodies in the ground; or burn them to ashes; and it's over. i'm ready to die at any time. i have no fear of death. i'm unsure why the lives of those who cannot function in society are so important. why should someone that has done several drive-bys be sent to prison only to rule the gang from inside prison?

maybe i should be asking; what makes life so precious to you. i'm serious and trying to find an answer.

A few things to open up about "not being able to function in society". First we could start by killing every (yes I will use the word) retarded person in society who contribute nothing but drool on their chests. Even those not that incapcitated would equal up to being axed from "our" society. Same could be said for older folks who suffer serious strokes, heart attacks, etc, and have to ride the wagon and waste in "our" society. Fine line we pick to just say this about prisoners and people who kill innocent victims in this life. I am for the death penalty for asshats that kill, rape, maim as leaving them in prison to me seems like a waste of time. Sure somebody will say "they have to think about it". Well I will say that in my years on this Earth that when I really think about death, I don't need to be in some cell for it to bother me. Anybody who says it is different for them because they are in a cell is kidding themselves. Nobody escapes here easy and I have seen my fair share of friends do stupid things because of thoughts in their heads.

I couldn't imagine from a parent's view that their child no matter how much care they need or what they turn into, dosen't think that birth was a miracle and I don't think that anybody on this board could convince those same parents that their child is about to have a death sentence set upon them by the state. Yes this kind of contradicts my view on the death penalty but I am able to see the other side of the coin.

Cosmo · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i wonder why this board is so fast to defend criminals without knowing any background. why so many are against the death penalty for those who cannot be permitted in society; be it our society or the prison society. what good do we do keeping these people alive? if death is the end; and all we can offer these criminals is solitary confinement; we've ended all quality of life anyway. what is the purpose of prolonging the biological aspects of that life?

also; why doesn't anyone consider the innocent victims? in all the threads over many years; the innocent victims are never mentioned.
i'm trying to understand. i would gladly give my life for several people i know. and i'd take the life of a criminal to save an innocent life.
can someone explain why the life of someone that cannot function is society is worth more than someone who can?

...
Regarding you subject title, "Why Do You Think Human Life Is So Precious?"...
My answer is... it's the only life we are certain we possess. There are no guarantees on anything beyond death's portal.
And you may believe you would gladly give your life for others... but, you don't know that. You will only know that if the situation arises where it really comes down to your life or theirs. Other than that.. they are merely empty words. My guess is that when we are on our death beds... and the last bits of life leaves our bodies... we will all want more.
...
As for Crime and Punishment... life in prison is considered punishment in my books.

onelongsong · November 2007

soulsinging wrote:

mainly becos life is all we've got. it's the only thing i have to lose that i really can't get back. that said, im not afraid to die and i don't think human life is all that special compared to animals or plants or whatever else. just that mine happens to be rather important to me, and becos i imagine most other people feel the same way about their lives, i don't support taking that life lightly.

but i don't oppose the death penalty for that reason. i oppose it becos it's cheaper and safer and life in prison keeps us plenty safe.

i agree with you and that's why you and i don't put ourselves in the position to lose our lives over something as stupid as committing crimes. i am willing to protect my life because it is important to me; but so is the quality of my life.

mookie9999 · November 2007

soulsinging wrote:

boy, you hang out with some savory characters. how come so many of your buddies have a knack for felony convictions? even more remarkable is how many of them are framed or falsely accused! yet you support the death penalty... good thing that person wasn't testifying against your friend in a murder trial.

I know you make some pretty extreme comments in regard to OLS posts, but this was funny.

soulsinging · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i agree with you and that's why you and i don't put ourselves in the position to lose our lives over something as stupid as committing crimes. i am willing to protect my life because it is important to me; but so is the quality of my life.

quality of life is incredibly subjective, as is what is worth risking one's life for.

onelongsong · November 2007

Cosmo wrote:

...
Regarding you subject title, "Why Do You Think Human Life Is So Precious?"...
My answer is... it's the only life we are certain we possess. There are no guarantees on anything beyond death's portal.
And you may believe you would gladly give your life for others... but, you don't know that. You will only know that if the situation arises where it really comes down to your life or theirs. Other than that.. they are merely empty words. My guess is that when we are on our death beds... and the last bits of life leaves our bodies... we will all want more.
...
As for Crime and Punishment... life in prison is considered punishment in my books.

i have been in that position and i've been held at gunpoint with a shotgun inches from my head. i've put myself in the line of fire to save another life. that's why i'm asking the question.

you're right about being on our deathbeds. when life left my body; i wanted more. it made me fight to survive.

onelongsong · November 2007

mookie9999 wrote:

I know you make some pretty extreme comments in regard to OLS posts, but this was funny.

if he ever passes the bar; he too will meet a lot of shady people. he will defend people he knows are innocent and he will get people off that he knows are guilty as hell. he's young and doesn't know the real world yet. how can he; he hasn't been in it yet.

Cosmo · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i have been in that position and i've been held at gunpoint with a shotgun inches from my head. i've put myself in the line of fire to save another life. that's why i'm asking the question.

you're right about being on our deathbeds. when life left my body; i wanted more. it made me fight to survive.

...
Please... someone record this.
...
What kind of shit do you get into? You did not give your life for someone else... you are not dead... at least, not this time. To give your life for someone else means you took the bullet intended for them. You just happen to be a victim.
...
Also... you have killed and have already died. If anyone here on this board... I would imaginre YOU to be the one who would KNOW why life is worth it and YOU would be the one most likely to be against state sponsored killing.

soulsinging · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

if he ever passes the bar; he too will meet a lot of shady people. he will defend people he knows are innocent and he will get people off that he knows are guilty as hell. he's young and doesn't know the real world yet. how can he; he hasn't been in it yet.

i was talking about your friends, not your clients dude. and how so many of your close friends got framed for molesting kids and burglary and so on and so forth. and asking why you support the state killing people when you claim to know firsthand that the state has a tendency to convict innocent people of crimes they didn't commit.

onelongsong · November 2007

even flow? wrote:

A few things to open up about "not being able to function in society". First we could start by killing every (yes I will use the word) retarded person in society who contribute nothing but drool on their chests. Even those not that incapcitated would equal up to being axed from "our" society. Same could be said for older folks who suffer serious strokes, heart attacks, etc, and have to ride the wagon and waste in "our" society. Fine line we pick to just say this about prisoners and people who kill innocent victims in this life. I am for the death penalty for asshats that kill, rape, maim as leaving them in prison to me seems like a waste of time. Sure somebody will say "they have to think about it". Well I will say that in my years on this Earth that when I really think about death, I don't need to be in some cell for it to bother me. Anybody who says it is different for them because they are in a cell is kidding themselves. Nobody escapes here easy and I have seen my fair share of friends do stupid things because of thoughts in their heads.

I couldn't imagine from a parent's view that their child no matter how much care they need or what they turn into, dosen't think that birth was a miracle and I don't think that anybody on this board could convince those same parents that their child is about to have a death sentence set upon them by the state. Yes this kind of contradicts my view on the death penalty but I am able to see the other side of the coin.

one of the most highly respected scientists in the world; is paralysed from the neck down. that retarded child can love and be loved. i had a stroke and rehabilitated to have a perfect life. i've been in a coma and i knew i was loved by those around me.

other than that; i agree with you.

even flow? · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

one of the most highly respected scientists in the world; is paralysed from the neck down. that retarded child can love and be loved. i had a stroke and rehabilitated to have a perfect life. i've been in a coma and i knew i was loved by those around me.

other than that; i agree with you.

Those aren't my views on it, I just threw that into the mix. To say that you and others can rehabilitate can be put forth to killers too. Now I will say that like a wild animal, once they have the taste for it, I am sure they have even less pull back and second thoughts the second time around. So do away with them. Self defence killing is a different road for me though.

baraka · November 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i wonder why this board is so fast to defend criminals without knowing any background. why so many are against the death penalty for those who cannot be permitted in society; be it our society or the prison society. what good do we do keeping these people alive? if death is the end; and all we can offer these criminals is solitary confinement; we've ended all quality of life anyway. what is the purpose of prolonging the biological aspects of that life?

also; why doesn't anyone consider the innocent victims? in all the threads over many years; the innocent victims are never mentioned.
i'm trying to understand. i would gladly give my life for several people i know. and i'd take the life of a criminal to save an innocent life.
can someone explain why the life of someone that cannot function is society is worth more than someone who can?

OLS, you raise some difficult questions. I don't think anyone who is against the death penalty does not hold sympathy for the victims. As Raindog mentioned (and probably others, I haven't made it past the first page), the death penalty is seems like a form of revenge. Now saying that, I can't say that if my loved ones were murdered, I would not want that kind of revenge. I think it is a human response, although there have been many victims that have shown grace and forgiven the perpetrator. I think forgiveness is the healthiest and most moral approach, but it is damn hard! Although one forgives, this doesn't mean that the individual doesn't need to be removed from society permanently. There are those that are a detriment to society, that can't live among others. There can be justice without revenge.

As for petty criminals and drug addicts, I absolutely believe in redemption. I do believe folks can turn their lives around and become productive members of society. Does everyone do it? No, but a lot do. And some even go on to help & mentor others.

Why Do You Think Human Life Is So Precious?

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