Why Do You Think Human Life Is So Precious?

onelongsong

i wonder why this board is so fast to defend criminals without knowing any background. why so many are against the death penalty for those who cannot be permitted in society; be it our society or the prison society. what good do we do keeping these people alive? if death is the end; and all we can offer these criminals is solitary confinement; we've ended all quality of life anyway. what is the purpose of prolonging the biological aspects of that life?

also; why doesn't anyone consider the innocent victims? in all the threads over many years; the innocent victims are never mentioned.
i'm trying to understand. i would gladly give my life for several people i know. and i'd take the life of a criminal to save an innocent life.
can someone explain why the life of someone that cannot function is society is worth more than someone who can?

dunkman

i dont agree with the death sentence for one simple reason... wrongful deaths


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article642345.ece

and thats just one story that happened to be at the top of my google search.. there'll be many more like it

RainDog

onelongsong wrote:

i wonder why this board is so fast to defend criminals without knowing any background. why so many are against the death penalty for those who cannot be permitted in society; be it our society or the prison society. what good do we do keeping these people alive? i find it strange for atheists to take such a religious stand about death. if death is the end; and all we can offer these criminals is solitary confinement; we've ended all quality of life anyway. what is the purpose of prolonging the biological aspects of that life?

also; why doesn't anyone consider the innocent victims? in all the threads over many years; the innocent victims are never mentioned.
i'm trying to understand. i would gladly give my life for several people i know. and i'd take the life of a criminal to save an innocent life.
can someone explain why the life of someone that cannot function is society is worth more than someone who can?

Well, I'm going to ignore the whole atheist aside, as I don't want to divert the thread into one of those "atheists have no morals" debates.

Taking the life of a criminal, if necessary, to save an innocent life is one thing. Most people would agree with that. But that's not what the death penalty is. The death penalty is "eye for an eye." It is simple revenge carried out by the state on behalf of either a victim's family or the bloodthirsty population at large. And, as dunkman mentioned, there is plenty of room for error in this, a situation where errors cannot ever be corrected.

Collin

I agree with RainDog and Dunk.

onelongsong

RainDog wrote:

Well, I'm going to ignore the whole atheist aside, as I don't want to divert the thread into one of those "atheists have no morals" debates.

Taking the life of a criminal, if necessary, to save an innocent life is one thing. Most people would agree with that. But that's not what the death penalty is. The death penalty is "eye for an eye." It is simple revenge carried out by the state on behalf of either a victim's family or the bloodthirsty population at large. And, as dunkman mentioned, there is plenty of room for error in this, a situation where errors cannot ever be corrected.

i believe atheist have morals. that isn't what this is about. to an atheist; life should be worth .98 cents because that is the equivilent of the cost of human make-up.

but that's not what this thread is about. i can see your point about wrongful deaths. it would have to be proven beyond ANY doubt. but i want to know what makes life so precious? people die every minute. we throw their bodies in the ground; or burn them to ashes; and it's over. i'm ready to die at any time. i have no fear of death. i'm unsure why the lives of those who cannot function in society are so important. why should someone that has done several drive-bys be sent to prison only to rule the gang from inside prison?

maybe i should be asking; what makes life so precious to you. i'm serious and trying to find an answer.

know1

I am against the death penalty primarily because I feel that revenge killing does NOBODY any good and is highly hypocritical.

meme

Human life is precious to me because human beings have an absolutely unpredictable capacity to start over, begin something new, resignify their lives. They are embedded in a web of relationships whose echo ripples in unexpected places and unexpected ways. Each human being is much more than his or her actions suggest and is impossible to pin down by sentences and judgments with any degree of accuracy.

Uncle Leo

RainDog wrote:

Well, I'm going to ignore the whole atheist aside, as I don't want to divert the thread into one of those "atheists have no morals" debates.

That would not be a diversion, as the original post leads right to it.

onelongsong

know1 wrote:

I am against the death penalty primarily because I feel that revenge killing does NOBODY any good and is highly hypocritical.

thank you; i find that to be a well thought out answer. i don't agree; but that's an answer i can respect.

how do you feel about the actions england took when they shipped the criminals out of the country? they basically had their freedom; but they were with their own kind.

Uncle Leo

onelongsong wrote:

i believe atheist have morals. that isn't what this is about. to an atheist; life should be worth .98 cents because that is the equivilent of the cost of human make-up.

what a crock of shit. How about the understanding that someone has friends, family, parents, siblings, children, etc. that will miss them? Need to be religious to grasp that?

onelongsong wrote:

but that's not what this thread is about. i can see your point about wrongful deaths. it would have to be proven beyond ANY doubt.

Actually, I, like the above, would be for the death penaly if not for wrongful deaths. In our justice system, you are supposed to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but there are flaws? What would make your idea happen...Super duper proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? That's not a mock, it's just may way to say that that does not work to separate death from life in prison.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

I'd say 99% of modern western people's morality is influenced by christianity whether they like it or not, even if they are atheist. before it, human life wasnt considered so important, strength was honored above all, mercy was considered a sign of weakness, etc. It pretty much replaced the old Greek morals.

Save all your responses about how hippocritical and evil christians are, thats not what i'm arguing. I'm just talking about the general doctrine and how its changed the western moral code.

Most modern atheists believe the same basic principles, thats not a coincidence.

onelongsong

Uncle Leo wrote:

RainDog wrote:

Well, I'm going to ignore the whole atheist aside, as I don't want to divert the thread into one of those "atheists have no morals" debates.

That would not be a diversion, as the original post leads right to it.

i didn't mean any disrespect uncle leo. i'm going by what i believed true atheism to be from programs i've seen on the tele. i don't believe most people who claim to be atheist are true atheists. so i really don't want this thread to take that turn. in fact; i'll edit to remore that sentence.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

yeah i think most atheists are really deists.

onelongsong

MrSmith wrote:

I'd say 99% of modern western people's morality is influenced by christianity whether they like it or not, even if they are atheist. before it, human life wasnt considered so important, strength was honored above all, mercy was considered a sign of weakness, etc. It pretty much replaced the old Greek morals.

Save all your responses about how hippocritical and evil christians are, thats not what i'm arguing. I'm just talking about the general doctrine and how its changed the western moral code.

Most modern atheists believe the same basic principles, thats not a coincidence.

i believe you're talking about what people believe christianity to be. original christianity didn't believe the burden of supporting those who could not function in society should be placed on society. people were outcast from that "society" or put to death.

in the original commandments; it says thou shalt not murder. there were reasons to kill. it wasn't until the 1960's that people questioned the need to kill those that killed innocent citizens.

blackredyellow

If someone is an atheist and doesn't believe that anything happens after death and their existence totally ends, wouldn't they cherish life even more than people who believe in some sort of afterlife? A life is the whole ball of wax for them.

Like said before, I don't believe in the death penalty in it's present for, because of the numerous innocent people that have been sentenced to death. If someone commits a truly heinous crime and they are caught in the act or on video or whatever, I'm ok with the death penalty.

But the crime has to be pretty bad for me to go for it (rape, murder, etc.), I don't think most crimes should end someone's life. While our system isn't the best for it, people can change and they can be rehabilitated.

onelongsong

meme wrote:

Human life is precious to me because human beings have an absolutely unpredictable capacity to start over, begin something new, resignify their lives. They are embedded in a web of relationships whose echo ripples in unexpected places and unexpected ways. Each human being is much more than his or her actions suggest and is impossible to pin down by sentences and judgments with any degree of accuracy.

i believe people can be "rehabilitated". i've seen people start over. i did. it took my death to open my eyes; but i did start over. but i've also seen society make it impossible for someone to start over and function in society.

i know someone that was accused of a sex crime. he was in a colorado hospital at the time this was suppose to happen; but someones testimony meant more. he's banned from living in many places. it's impossible for him to find a normal job because of background checks; so he started his own business installing satellite tv systems. he's one of the lucky ones. i know others (not sex offenders) who couldn't get good jobs because of background checks so they turned to selling drugs. if you do it properly; selling drugs is very profitable; with low risk. so if their lives are precious and they deserve a second chance; why doesn't society give them that second chance?

Abuskedti

onelongsong wrote:

i wonder why this board is so fast to defend criminals without knowing any background. why so many are against the death penalty for those who cannot be permitted in society; be it our society or the prison society. what good do we do keeping these people alive? if death is the end; and all we can offer these criminals is solitary confinement; we've ended all quality of life anyway. what is the purpose of prolonging the biological aspects of that life?

also; why doesn't anyone consider the innocent victims? in all the threads over many years; the innocent victims are never mentioned.
i'm trying to understand. i would gladly give my life for several people i know. and i'd take the life of a criminal to save an innocent life.
can someone explain why the life of someone that cannot function is society is worth more than someone who can?

Because society is flawed, if death is a consequence of incompatability - why should the should the solution be death to the individual.. why not death to society?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Abuskedti wrote:

Because society is flawed, if death is a consequence of incompatability - why should the should the solution be death to the individual.. why not death to society?

because that would be stupid.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

blackredyellow wrote:

If someone is an atheist and doesn't believe that anything happens after death and their existence totally ends, wouldn't they cherish life even more than people who believe in some sort of afterlife? A life is the whole ball of wax for them.

Cherish there own life maybe, but other's lives wouldn't be that important. At least thats how I would see it. If I believed life was all there was, I wouldn't give a shit about anyone but myself and do whatever it takes for survival.

onelongsong

blackredyellow wrote:

If someone is an atheist and doesn't believe that anything happens after death and their existence totally ends, wouldn't they cherish life even more than people who believe in some sort of afterlife? A life is the whole ball of wax for them.

Like said before, I don't believe in the death penalty in it's present for, because of the numerous innocent people that have been sentenced to death. If someone commits a truly heinous crime and they are caught in the act or on video or whatever, I'm ok with the death penalty.

But the crime has to be pretty bad for me to go for it (rape, murder, etc.), I don't think most crimes should end someone's life. While our system isn't the best for it, people can change and they can be rehabilitated.

i really like this answer. i know what solitary confinement can be like. we're expected to have 3 days of heavy rain and once my internet goes out; it's solitary confinement with privledges. i'm stranded for at least a week waiting for roads to dry out. if i had to be in a small cell; i'd go crazy. if i knew this was permanent; i'd kill myself. i have a DNR order in because of my illness so i'm not afraid to die. my quality of life is worth more to me than being confined. be it a convenescent home or a vegetative state.

i agree with your views on the death penalty btw.

onelongsong

MrSmith wrote:

Cherish there own life maybe, but other's lives wouldn't be that important. At least thats how I would see it. If I believed life was all there was, I wouldn't give a shit about anyone but myself and do whatever it takes for survival.

beautiful answer. that's how i understand it. when you cherish the lives of others; isn't that all christianity really is. Jesus only taught to love others. not building temples or churches.