Wal-Mart Fights Maryland Law Mandating Minimus Level of Health Benefit Spending

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  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    ryan198 wrote:
    since the definition of slavery is to work for someone without compensation that too.
    Wow so I'm a slave when I'm doing volunteer work. Interesting.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    surferdude wrote:
    In the eyes of the aw they are very much the same thing and for very good reasons. Government is supposed to dictate spending through taxation. This is a case of a government too afraid to dowhat they are mandated to do, and accordingly I hope this law is overturned and Wal-Mart sues Maryland's ass.

    Don't shop there. Don't accept gifts bought from there. Be principaled. Convince other people why they should adopt these same principals. Lobby the Maryland government to increase payroll taxes so Maryland can offer universal healthcare.

    So lobby to change the rules. Corporations can't vote and in the end it is the voters who have the power. Harness that power. Use that power. But please don't applaud when a government has made poor, discriminatory law.


    If people didn't choose to shop at Wal-Mart then there wouldn't be a problem. The people have spoken and they don't give a shit about the Wal-Mart employees, all they care about is getting their's at a discouinted price. Wanting the government to step and by a conscience that people have decided they don't want is bush league.

    How would you feel if Bush and co. enacted a law that negatively affected only Democrats? Would you support this law if it meant increased healthcare spending?


    1. It's to my understanding that other companies are getting hit by this...Wal-Mart just is getting the large brunt of it...but then again this is the company that puts instructions for welfare in their employee lunchrooms.

    2. By participating on this board am I not doing some of what you are saying. If a law comes around that forces Wal-Mart to pay back some of what it has, in many cases, illegally earned then so be it.

    3. That's what I am doing!

    4. Choosing to shop at Wal-Mart is not what many people WANT to do

    5. Increased healthcare at the expense of say Pearl Jam LLC would not hurt my feelings.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ryan198 wrote:
    1. The rich continuing to get more rich has a LOT to do with taxation ... there have been clear corralations with this in many countries over the past 30 or so years, which is when the IMF, World Bank, WTO, etc. took over and stopped serving the interests of the many in regard to the few.

    2. Physical abuse may not happen in the United States, but in Wal-Mart supplying factories around the world it happens everyday. Wal-Mart also has a corporate policy that threatens, blackballs, and otherwise mentally intimidates employees to work extra for no pay, and not to unionize. If that doesn't dance on the line of illegality and since the definition of slavery is to work for someone without compensation that too.


    There are many here, such as I, who agree with you but don't care to go rounds and rounds with some people who have a different ideology. It seems like some here can never agree to disagree...their way is the only way it can be seen properly and that just gets not be not worth the time after a while.

    ***applauds new law***
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    surferdude wrote:
    Wow so I'm a slave when I'm doing volunteer work. Interesting.
    Good point...against your will should have also been added, and I'm pretty sure forced unpaid overtime is against many people's will no?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    ryan198 wrote:
    1. The rich continuing to get more rich has a LOT to do with taxation ... there have been clear corralations with this in many countries over the past 30 or so years, which is when the IMF, World Bank, WTO, etc. took over and stopped serving the interests of the many in regard to the few.

    Those "clear correlations" you speak of have little to do with taxes but nearly everything to do with one of two things:

    - The ability of the rich to provide a service that people are willing to pay for
    - The ability of a segment of the population to use the IMF, World Bank, WTO etc as a tool of theft, murder and deception.

    The first applies to Wal-Mart, at least in the context of Maryland workers.
    2. Physical abuse may not happen in the United States, but in Wal-Mart supplying factories around the world it happens everyday.

    To some extent, yes. But this law does nothing to stop that or prevent it. If anything, it makes it even more attractive.
    Wal-Mart also has a corporate policy that threatens, blackballs, and otherwise mentally intimidates employees to work extra for no pay, and not to unionize.

    Certainly. Again, this law does nothing to stop that or prevent it.
    If that doesn't dance on the line of illegality and since the definition of slavery is to work for someone without compensation that too.

    Um....the definition of slavery is to work for someone against their will based on force. And that applies here more to the Government's actions than it does to Wal-Mart.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    ryan198 wrote:
    I'm pretty sure forced unpaid overtime is against many people's will no?

    No. That's like suggesting it's slavery because you're boss won't give you the 50% raise you want.

    Forced unpaid overtime is bullshit. It's not slavery, because it's countered by the employees ability to tell Wal-Mart to shove it.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No. That's like suggesting it's slavery because you're boss won't give you the 50% raise you want.

    Forced unpaid overtime is bullshit. It's not slavery, because it's countered by the employees ability to tell Wal-Mart to shove it.

    and then they can eat the leather off their shoes for dinner...light a match for heat...you know the drill.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    I can see your points but where I disagree is that I feel like anytime Wal-Mart gets punished it's a good thing. Secondly, taxing corporations is a good thing to, but again this is where we disagree.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    and then they can eat the leather off their shoes for dinner...light a match for heat...you know the drill.


    nope, don't you remember farfromsympathetic's financial plan?? a family of 4 or more can live a month off of 5lbs of hamburger meat!!!
    ffg's monthly food allotment wrote:
    10 loaves of bread: ~$20
    5 lbs of hamburger: ~$15
    3 lbs of cheese: ~$15
    10 gallons of milk: ~$30
    Ingredients for granola: ~$30
    Various grains/proteins: ~$30
    Juices: ~$30
    Various Vegatables: ~$30
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No. That's like suggesting it's slavery because you're boss won't give you the 50% raise you want.

    Forced unpaid overtime is bullshit. It's not slavery, because it's countered by the employees ability to tell Wal-Mart to shove it.
    Then they fire you and bring in the next poor schlub...it's the time-honored Wal-Mart way. They have been sued over this many, many times successfully. Unfortunately they still haven't changed.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    ryan198 wrote:
    I can see your points but where I disagree is that I feel like anytime Wal-Mart gets punished it's a good thing. Secondly, taxing corporations is a good thing to, but again this is where we disagree.

    That's cool. But the fact that you see this primarily as "punishment" should tell you everything you need to know about this law. It sets a very ugly precedent in this country, and the next time this happens it may not be on a target so attractive to you as Wal-Mart.
  • Songburst
    Songburst Posts: 1,195
    From an outside observer, it seems that all this law is doing is equalling the playing field. If businesses in Maryland are like businesses here in Ontario, I'm sure that most employers in Maryland offer some sort of health benefits to their employees. I'm just hypothesizing here, but maybe the average amount spent on health benefits among companies that give a shit about their employees is around 8% of the payroll of a typical Maryland business. Forcing Wal Mart to treat their employees as human beings is a good thing in my opinion. However, if the concensus of other businesses in Maryland is to not offer these benefits, then I would say that this law is unfair. I don't know enough about business practises in Maryland to say with conviction that this law is just or not. Wal Mart should be doing this on their own accord anyway. Respectable companies offer good benefits to their employees. They don't sell out the people who make them their money just so they can sell a 5 pound jar of pickels for 1.98.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    and then they can eat the leather off their shoes for dinner...light a match for heat...you know the drill.

    So why don't you pass a law that forces Wal-Mart to employ everyone?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    El_Kabong wrote:
    nope, don't you remember farfromsympathetic's financial plan?? a family of 4 or more can live a month off of 5lbs of hamburger meat!!!

    That seems strange since it wasn't the only thing on the list.

    That said, you're correct. I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Songburst wrote:
    From an outside observer, it seems that all this law is doing is equalling the playing field.

    How can a law the applies to only one business be equated to "equalling the playing field"????
    If businesses in Maryland are like businesses here in Ontario, I'm sure that most employers in Maryland offer some sort of health benefits to their employees. I'm just hypothesizing here, but maybe the average amount spent on health benefits among companies that give a shit about their employees is around 8% of the payroll of a typical Maryland business. Forcing Wal Mart to treat their employees as human beings is a good thing in my opinion. However, if the concensus of other businesses in Maryland is to not offer these benefits, then I would say that this law is unfair. I don't know enough about business practises in Maryland to say with conviction that this law is just or not. Wal Mart should be doing this on their own accord anyway. Respectable companies offer good benefits to their employees. They don't sell out the people who make them their money just so they can sell a 5 pound jar of pickels for 1.98.

    Most Maryland businesses do offer health benefits, but are free not to (except for Wal-Mart of course).

    As a business owner, I can tell you that the 8% number is very low, even for the average business. My employees' health care packages cost about 30% of my payroll.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    farfromglorified wrote:
    That seems strange since it wasn't the only thing on the list.

    strange? i copied and pasted your whole list...didn't you read my entire post? granted i edited it...but i last edited a full 4 min before you replied to it

    farfromglorified wrote:
    That said, you're correct. I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy.


    i think politics has a lot to do w/ it's citizens
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    farfromglorified wrote:
    That seems strange since it wasn't the only thing on the list.

    That said, you're correct. I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy.

    What about empathy, or understanding of the near-caste system we have here in the United States. Yes a few poor can make it out, but our class system has never been so strong as it is today, and that's messed up.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    So why don't you pass a law that forces Wal-Mart to employ everyone?

    why would I do that?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    El_Kabong wrote:
    strange? i copied and pasted your whole list...didn't you read my entire post? granted i edited it...but i last edited a full 4 min before you replied to it

    You pasted the whole list, but then pretended that there was only one item on it in your statment.
    i think politics has a lot to do w/ it's citizens

    Politics has everything to do with it's citizens....all of them. Interesting that you would equate citizens with sympathy and pity.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ryan198 wrote:
    What about empathy, or understanding of the near-caste system we have here in the United States. Yes a few poor can make it out, but our class system has never been so strong as it is today, and that's messed up.


    the capitalist system guarantees that only a few can rise above or else it wouldn't work.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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